Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 420 490 ... 495 496 497 498 499 ... 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Gweret
Gweret


Adventuring Hero
posted September 18, 2011 12:16 PM

Quote:
There were basic trees, faction unique perks and some special perks that were shared by some factions only.

Yes they could give us different skills per each faction completely forgetting about balance. They did that in HV.
You can't just give a skill to given faction because it looks "cool" and later see if it is balanced.

In H6 they have to balance: might and magic, how lack of given spell school and spell level affects given hero, they have to balance 3 faction abilities and 3 hero class abilities.
And now you are telling that they should also balance a few(probably ~7-8 or more) "normal" skills per faction...
Previous Heroes game proved that it is at least hard.


Skills are different enough if you compare them to each other.

They have chosen different skill system "design" which require different approach.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted September 19, 2011 08:21 AM

Quote:
Remember that 1 morale/luck only means 1% chance to trigger which makes these skills totally worthless.


I think it's a little more than 1%

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
lichking012
lichking012


Known Hero
posted September 19, 2011 08:26 AM
Edited by lichking012 at 08:35, 19 Sep 2011.

Personally, I see plenty of variation in this system. Is a mix between the unbalanced variety of H5 and the standard skills of heroes 3. Plus The fact that Might and Magic Heroes have unique stats and unique abilities is pretty suite.

Each faction plays differently, especially in  full games. They creep differently and overall behave differently, and as a result require different builds, Specifically if you want to Augment the specials. I don't see how arbitrarily limiting options of players and saying X ability is only for Inferno is interesting. Sure there are certain abilities that are better suited for inferno than other factions, for instance I rarely have a fire magic heavy necromancer, but limiting these abilities and saying other factions can't have them seems rather silly to me. I don't see how you can construe MORE options for the player as a bad thing, especially when you consider all of the options under each skill tab.

There were about 140 "available skills" in heroes 5 per faction. Keep in mind that some combinations almost never happen though, so yes, while a Necromancer COULD learn light magic, It's not really likely, so those skills don't really count. In heroes 6, there are about 120 options for each hero. But those are actual options, Heroes 6 offers just as much in depth skill selection as heroes 5, arguably more, since you aren't at the mercy of the random skills.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
alcibiades
alcibiades


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
posted September 19, 2011 08:51 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Remember that 1 morale/luck only means 1% chance to trigger which makes these skills totally worthless.

I think it's a little more than 1%

One points of morale/luck is only 1 % chance to trigger, but I think the skills give +11 points each.
____________
What will happen now?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted September 19, 2011 09:26 AM

The morale/luck thingie happens so often in the demo, it's annoying.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted September 19, 2011 12:12 PM

Quote:
One points of morale/luck is only 1 % chance to trigger, but I think the skills give +11 points each.


So getting the first morale/luck skill it increases probability of occurring by 11% ?

@ LichKing012 -> Good vibes

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kesnar
kesnar


Famous Hero
from Kesnaria
posted September 19, 2011 12:44 PM

I know that you said something about Tazar on page 494 but I couldn't find much information....

Is Ubisoft just messing with us by naming a hero of HOMM VI the same as a renowned hero from HOMM III/IV?!?Like they did in HOMM V by mentioning a Sandro necromancer that has nothing to do with sandro?!?

Or are they really going to try to merge the 2 lores together?!?

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 19, 2011 12:52 PM

Neither. Remember Crag Hack in the might and magic rpgs and the one in homm that had absolutely no relation with each other? Something like that. It's sort of Ashan's version of the character.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kesnar
kesnar


Famous Hero
from Kesnaria
posted September 19, 2011 12:53 PM

So they are messing with us...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Gweret
Gweret


Adventuring Hero
posted September 19, 2011 12:54 PM

Your old heroes are simply NEW incarnations (they were born in Ashan) in H6. They have different past, but share some similarities in personality.
In other words, your old heroes did not cross a fantasy portal to Ashan.

I'm not sure if this is true for all heroes, for ex. for Solmyr, who as immortal jinn can travel time and space.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted September 19, 2011 03:13 PM
Edited by Avirosb at 15:54, 19 Sep 2011.

Quote:
Her lovely face perpetually illuminated by a radiant smile, Adelaide is a benevolent, caring woman who grew up in the mountains west of the Greyhound Duchy. As a child, she enjoyed climbing as high as possible to enjoy the view of the valley. One day, she ventured higher than usual and was caught in a snowstorm. The blizzard raged for three consecutive days, and her parents thought their treasured daughter was lost forever. But on the morning of the fourth day, as the sky was finally clearing, the Angel Eliora appeared, holding the girl in her arms. The Angel revealed that she had followed a beacon of light that seemed to radiate from within the storm, and had found Adelaide. To the celestial being, it was proof that the girl had been chosen by Elrath to become a Priestess of the Light.
143 words.

Quote:
Adelaide grew up in the mountains west of the Greyhound Duchy. As a child, she would often go mountain climbing to enjoy the view of the valley. One day, however,she got caught in a fierce snowstorm. The storm raged for three consecutive days and the poor girl was presumed lost forever. On the fourth day, when the skies cleared, and angel appeared, carrying Adelaide in her arms. The girl had acted as a beacon of light; her energy radiating from within the storm. To the angel, it was proof that the girl was one of Elrath's chosen.
98 words. Brevity!


EDIT: H3 and H4 comparisons
Quote:
Caught at sea during a storm, Adelaide was shipwrecked on the shores of Vori, home of the Snow Elves. She trained with them for some twenty years, and upon her return to Erathia discovered that no time had passed in her absence.
Quote:
Adelaide's love for the snowy landscapes of her homeland seems like a contradiction to the warmth of her personality. All who know her quickly become her friend, and all who come to her for advice know that she will give them her honest opinion.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Kitten
Kitten


Known Hero
Roar
posted September 19, 2011 04:15 PM

If I play with dynasty on, will the AI also have dynasty bonus and weapons at their disposal? I'm mostly concerned about the weapons

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted September 20, 2011 11:21 AM

I became privy to a most unnerving rumor that there will be DLC's instead of proper expansions. For the sake of all good things in God's creation, I hope this is not true.
____________
Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 20, 2011 11:37 AM

I doubt it kodial, Ubi knows we love a good expansion. Now if there will also be a dlc for other stuff remains to be seen.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted September 20, 2011 11:45 AM

Well, they could argue the DLC is more or less the same. The thing is, I don't like to buy online even if it's for Heroes. I would rather get the hard copy from my local gamestore.


____________
Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2011 12:29 PM

After playing many games with a AI team on Tree of plenty map... On hard difficulty where the AI receives more troops at start and selecting hard AI I see it plays very bad on the adventure map.

No diplomacy works for him, not even free troops, not even the troops from dwellings, the AI just cheats his way with his starting troops and doesn't clear half his zone. A secondary hero is hired just doing nothing in town with troops. The chainings are a joke, main comes back first, secondary gives him troops and takes when it's the case his non upgraded for further upgrade. Big loss of movement points. Well, that's not the only thing that bothers me but also simply the fact that it's always too easy on even the hardest difficulties. Even on ToP where ressources are scarce the first week it's possible to clear everything (except some few with some towns) without any losses and with losses it's possible to clear everything and capture second town beginning of 2nd week. Maybe it's just the lack of adequate maps but I don't see any challenge anywhere, unlike in previous versions.

Also, it seems magic units receive better bonuses from heroes (due to the fact that the magic element affects their damage too). Magic heroes can have insane might defense (better than might heroes) with spells like stoneskin, ice armor, etc. You can have a unit with up to 97% damage reduction with a lv 15 hero. That means a 300 hp unit is worth +- 10.000 hp now...If you cannot dispel that buff it's game over. So each hero now has to select at least dispel (if he has access to prime...else purge ?). I think their formula for armor is badly implemented and not equivalent to the attack formula. What's the point to deal + 15% damage with a spell or warcry when opponent can receive easily -20% to all troops or -50% to a single one...  +10% damage is countered with -10% damage with a little benefit already but+100% damage is countered with -50% damage. Hope they look at this deeper before release ...

Well that's all for now, ...



____________
http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
DoubleDeck
DoubleDeck


Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
posted September 20, 2011 01:41 PM

Quote:
I think their formula for armor is badly implemented and not equivalent to the attack formula.

That's why the attack formula (hero attack linked to creature damage) is exponential, ie. it keeps climbing up but the defense formula (hero defense linked to creature damage absorption) plateau's out ie. absorption percentage increases well in the beginning but doesn't get much higher when your hero reaches high level...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2011 02:11 PM

Yes, but I speak about spells that reduce damage : weakness, stoneskin, ice armor, etc, ...also a + 8 might artifact adds + 11 % damage to might units while a +8 spell power artifact gives almost the double to magic units if the hero has points in the corresponding element. No way to do that with might units. My shaman's dreamwalkers deal much more damage than my barbarian panther warriors (both same level and map bonus)...A simple battle vs AI, I have stoneskin + stand your ground, my only unit (dreamwalkers or panthers) only receives 10% of damage. This could never be compensated by any attack skills. I can reach 97% with ice armor if needed...On the contrary magic defense can only be helped with stat skills (prime), primary skills or fire shield spell. Simply put a Tear hero will "tear" apart a blood hero anytime if the latter doesn't have a way to dispel the spells .
____________
http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 20, 2011 02:21 PM
Edited by Nelgirith at 14:23, 20 Sep 2011.

Aye, that's the weakness of a %-based system. Also the fact that a core unit gains more from a raw +10 defense than a champion unit makes not much sense. Add to that the fact that even a core can reach 75% of damage absorption, it makes the whole system clunky.

Allbeit it wasn't perfect, the good old +/- 2.5% per attack/defense difference was still the best system and it would have been easier to balance.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
pacifist
pacifist


Famous Hero
posted September 20, 2011 02:54 PM
Edited by pacifist at 15:16, 20 Sep 2011.

Yes, they had at least a limit also in earlier versions (except H4 which was also badly implemented with multiplying bonuses).

Are you sure about the +10 defense bonus? Don't forget the closer to 100% the slower the bonuses should be or they will be nearly infinite. A champion unit is close to 50% damage reduction by pure stats so a little bonus is already much in reality in terms of global damage reduction.

A unit with 10% reduction damage receives 10 bonus defense from hero that translates to 19% reduction.

A unit with 50% reduction damage receives 10 bonus defense from hero
that translates to 55% reduction.

In the first case 100 damage was 90 then 81 with hero but the unit in fact virtually had its hp jump by 1.11 to 1.23 with hero

In the second case 100 damage was 50 then 45 with hero but the unit in fact virtually had its hp jump by 2 to 2.22 with hero.

The virtual hp increment is almost identical but champion or elites in fact benefit most from armor when spells enter in the equation as we close dangerously the 100% limit.

Numbers are aproximative as I'm at work and do it from head.

edit : sorry I didn't catch it was defense instead of damage reduction that comes from heroes. But it's still +- the same idea I think. At least in human games there will be ways to counter all that but it's so easy vs the map and AI. It seems they made H6 for newbs .

____________
http://www.youtube.com/user/alkoriak#g/u

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 350 420 490 ... 495 496 497 498 499 ... 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.2463 seconds