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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 70 ... 87 88 89 90 91 ... 140 210 280 350 420 490 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 02, 2011 11:19 AM
Edited by Zenofex at 11:25, 02 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Slightly off topic but what are the origins of the Wyvern? And isn't the Basilisk from the Bible or another big myth?
Both are predominantly European or, to be precise, Indo-European creatures. The Wyvern seems to be native to Western Europe, although like many mythological creatures, it could have its roots elsewhere. The Basilisk is a bit more "Eastern" but still pretty wide-spread in medieval Europe. It is mentioned in the Bible, but scarcely described. It seems to be one of the many creatures derived from the ancient cults which used the snake as symbol of both life and death and were spread all over the world. Probably (this is my opinion though) it was turned from neutral to negative with the polarized religions, specifically the Zoroastrianism, the late Judaism and the Christianity/Islam.

Edit:
Quote:
Using elements from other games, elements that work well for this game, is original and good.
The whole point is that they don't work well. If the fans' reaction is the only indicator, they utterly fail. People are tired of repetitions and plagiarism, it is 100% natural to ask for something fresh and not something that the publishers think that will "sell well" because it's "tested" by somebody else. Blah!

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 02, 2011 01:26 PM

Haha kinda surprising but I seems to agree with kodial79. Because to me it doesn't from where or what creatures or unit they take as long as they are cool. Of course they should try to do it with some dignety aka. not take a whole game for example.

But they shouldn't be afraid to steal a little
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted January 02, 2011 01:29 PM

Quote:
Concerning the marketing:

What some of you not seem to realise, or are in denial of, is that marketing is a simple matter of cost vs. benefit.
Heroes of Might and Magic always has and always will be a niche-product. And in catering to a nice-market, they have on the one side a very dedicated following. On the other side they have the general market. Heroes of Might and Magic, and the Might and Magic franchise, will never be as big as say Rayman, or Assasins Creed to name a few of Ubisofts highselling products.

In many cases, the dedicated followers are aware of the products and do not need a large marketing campaign to be made aware of the new to-be-released product. Whatever fan is not aware of it immediately, will be made aware through mouth-to-mouth advertising eventually.

Then there is the general market. In a large ammount of the cases, the general market will not be at all interested in the niche-product. A few people may be won over, after hearing or seeing it, but they will not be many.

Then there is marketing. Marketing is a good way of adressing the general market, as it will in general not be nesecary to market for the niche-market who already know of the product.
But here is the catch, the customers won by marketing a nich-product will never be much. The greater the marketing, the greater the new customers, surely. But those new customers, again, will only be a tiny portion of the entire customer base. Most customers were already a part of the niche-market to begin with.

Now here comes the Cost vs. Benefit part. The amount of sales generated by extensive marketing, will not differ very much from the amount of sales generated with minimum marketing. So there is very little benefit, for a costly marketing campaign. If ubisoft simply gives a shout out to the fansites, the reach 90% or more of their total market already.

Lastly, Ubisoft is making Heroes of Might and Magic VI. Their main objective in this is to generate profit. Not doing us the fans, a favor. The catering to the fans is part of the development, but it is a means to reach the goal of profit. Keep this in mind.


actually either u've slept during your marketing class or ur not really familiar with the concept of marketing... niche marketing wouldnt be relevant in this case, video games marketing doesnt mean spending tons of money coz its mainly done in the virtual world of the internet where tha majority of the potential clients are...
ubisoft marketing is non existant !!! 90% of us in here found out about the game by mistake, no buzz created whatsoever, no attracting new gamers whatsoever, no feeding the older homm gamers... snowty marketing by all standards regardless of how u paint the picture...

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 02, 2011 02:00 PM

Quote:
"Doesn't work well" is just a matter of opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

I wouldn't call it plagiarism more than Zerg being a copy of Tyranids. Moreover, people actually like recalling the same things, that's why fairy tales in all their new versions are so popular, and their elements.
Yes, and you seem to forget that you are voicing your own opinion only. "It doesn't work well" in this case means that the majority thinks that it doesn't work well. I can state 100 reason why do I think that it's cheap, stupid and plagiaristic, but this is irrelevant as nobody who actually doesn't share this point of view - including you - will change his/her opinion just because some of the things I'll say are iron-clad facts. Facts just happen to be the most neglected things in many such "I am right for myself" discussions. So please - if you want to prove something for a fact, start with some real arguments and not "this is just your opinion" because this is leading nowhere.

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted January 02, 2011 04:40 PM

Name is not important as much as look and abilities of the creature are. Well, at least I think this way because you can easily change the name but entire concept of the creature isn't that easy.
____________
"The age can be wicked to those who walk alone. When I look into the Mirror, I see myself as I might become..." -Freya

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Lokheit
Lokheit


Known Hero
posted January 02, 2011 04:54 PM
Edited by Lokheit at 16:56, 02 Jan 2011.

The fact that they are making some people rant like I'm seeing is what shows that they have a VERY GREAT marketing strategy.

People think they hurt them just ranting about what they think it's wrong and that they want more reveals, but in fact, even if they will never think they are helping them, it only helps to the expectation the game is generating. Well done Ubi-hole, well done...

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted January 02, 2011 05:02 PM

The H3 Azure Dragon might have been a jab at the expense of a fan, so be careful what you write lest we get an orange dragon in H6.
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 02, 2011 05:02 PM

Quote:
The fact that they are making some people rant like I'm seeing is what shows that they have a VERY GREAT marketing strategy.

People think they hurt them just ranting about what they think it's wrong and that they want more reveals, but in fact, even if they will never think they are helping them, it only helps to the expectation the game is generating. Well done Ubi-hole, well done...


You can't be serious... How many of us are here ranting? Why, we're not even more than 100 people altogether, and that's the most active forum we got. The rest don't care and could have possibly left already.

We're just the die-hard fans of the series, and we're not enough to generate profits for Ubisoft when the game's released. All the rest potential but not sure customers will probably not be buying Heroes VI due to the failure of creating a buzz around it.


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Kenishi
Kenishi


Famous Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted January 02, 2011 05:04 PM

Quote:
You do realise that Hydra had already been with the Warlocks for 3 of the 4 games right, Hydra is 3rd creature of the Warlock lineup.


    I know but I was focused on the H3 because the Hydra, to me, fit best in that lineup and was a 7 tier unit and also because going to the hydra myths origin is more a water dwelling creature than deep cave.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lernaean_Hydra
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No Gods, no Masters. Knowledge is Power, and Power is Freedom

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Yaeliccc
Yaeliccc


Known Hero
Undead, but warm and fuzzy
posted January 02, 2011 05:18 PM

Quote:
The fact that they are making some people rant like I'm seeing is what shows that they have a VERY GREAT marketing strategy.

People think they hurt them just ranting about what they think it's wrong and that they want more reveals, but in fact, even if they will never think they are helping them, it only helps to the expectation the game is generating. Well done Ubi-hole, well done...


yeah that would make sense if it werent for the lame fact that the ranting is limited to 10-20% of the fans who stumbled upon homm 6 by mistake... leaving out the rest of the community along with all the other potential buyers who are talkin about diablo 3 which will be released in two yrs... indeed well done ubihole, the buzz is so loud it cant even be heard insade ubihole's own offices LOL

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted January 02, 2011 05:19 PM
Edited by Aosaw at 17:21, 02 Jan 2011.

I don't know.  If you had two-hundred assassins in your army, they were in some ways more formidable than a dragon - how many units can you think of that deal a guaranteed one point of damage per creature, every turn?  I personally always loved the idea of going into battle with a horde of assassins and laying waste to my enemies.  The only drawback that I ever saw with assassins was that you couldn't hire that many of them.  The recruitment ability was almost a must for any hero garrisoned in your town.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 02, 2011 07:10 PM

Quote:
Quote:
well, you're not, you've already stated that you're probably not even going to buy Heroes VI! But for one who is clearly not very interested in the product, you do rant a lot!


Hear, hear.


Ah, well, I didn't say I'm not gonna buy it. I said I'm gonna wait on it until an RMG is out, fanmade or official. There's bound to be a fanmade one at least, at some time.

Although Diablo III is really threat on Heroes VI, for me. It's really very tempting. But as Diablo III could come out like in two years from now, I think my going for Heroes VI is a safe bet.


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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted January 02, 2011 08:03 PM
Edited by SwampLord at 20:25, 02 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
The whole point is that they don't work well. If the fans' reaction is the only indicator, they utterly fail. People are tired of repetitions and plagiarism, it is 100% natural to ask for something fresh and not something that the publishers think that will "sell well" because it's "tested" by somebody else. Blah!


The fans' reaction is of no refference. The fans don't react to H3 ripping off from D&D, the fans react to H5 ripping off from Warhammer or because they vaguely remind them of anime or warcraft somehow.

I find the fans to be biased when it comes to topics like this.


I believe the reason there was more of a kneejerk reaction to HV is that many creatures represented a dramatic departure from the HoMM art style. Some towns (Stronghold and Dungeon, for example) still evoked the old style very strongly, but others were much more cartoonish.

I think the real backlash was against the art style and not the fact that creatures were taken from other sources, as that's what HoMM is all about.

And yes, the fans may be biased, but unfortunately that bias then has to influence the developers. If you're not pleasing your fans, then you've got a bit of an issue.
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 02, 2011 08:19 PM
Edited by MattII at 23:47, 02 Jan 2011.

The knee-jerk reaction about the creatures in H5 was a pity, as there were plenty of more substantial reasons to hate the game, starting with the terrible balance, bugginess and god-awfully long AI turn times. The map scale was also a dramatic departure from the previous games, making the hero suddenly seem to be the army rather than him/her being an obvious icon for the army.

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted January 02, 2011 09:17 PM

Quote:
The knee-jerk reaction about the creatures in H5 was a pity, as there were plenty of mire substantial reasons to hate the game, starting with the terrible balance, bugginess and god-awfully long AI turn times. The map scale was also a dramatic departure from the previous games, making the hero suddenly seem to be the army rather than h9im/her being an obvious icon for the army.


Actually, I think I remember somewhere that they talked about the fact that each hero contained his army in a small red-and-white sphere, out of which he summoned his army at the start of battle.  The reason you can only have seven different units in your army, for instance, was because that was as many "spheres" as your hero could carry on his belt.

Or did no one else notice that the cerberus goes around saying "Ceber-us!  Cer-ber!  Cerberus!"


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LordGodric
LordGodric


Known Hero
The Griffin Rider
posted January 02, 2011 11:51 PM

Quote:
Ofcourse they were cool! Almost every monster that D&D comes up with is cool!

Well, notice 'almost' ...have you seen the FLAIL SNAIL?


have you ever seen OWLBEAR?
-------
In fact I think UBI is doing a good work. Making Dark Messiah and Clash of Heroes to atracct new fans to the franchise and not changing much in the game at first, to not piss the long time fans.
And as was written before, maybe this isnt the best marketing campaign ever, but it isn't the worst too.

But WOULD it really hurt to write a few words about game mechanics, like magic or skill system?
I don't think so. I rather prefer to have infromation on small drops in a regullar basis, then have some information and then receive nothing for who knows how meny time.
If this is part of the marketing plan of the franchise, or it's so wonderfully well done that i can't figure out how it works, or it faild a bit somehow.
Look at the game site: it's a shame. the guys who developed elementals: magic wars (or whatsthename) did a best work by far, refreshing the site with new and contents! - and the game it's a crap!

about originality:
well, if one wants to play a game with very original characters it REALLY shouldnt be playng might and magic, because the whole franchise is about iconic and classic monsters and generic sword and sorcery stuff, like humans being good knights who kills orcs, dragons and rescue the princess!
But the concept of originality is quite subjective, i mean, i think homm 3 was very original. Why? be cause they just get things from mithologies, book, rpgs and whatever and put it all toghether in a well done way. In my opinion the originality lays in the way its done.
for example
I don't care if in thousends of settings elfs are nature lovers, because in no other setting they lived in avlee thogether with dwarves and centaurs and humans leaved their homeland to live in peace with than, and all that stuff.

------
@aosaw
oh no! I allways suspect that!
Look the new phoenix (the new blue one from H6) it's Lugia! and H5 one was Ho-oh!

____________

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Lokheit
Lokheit


Known Hero
posted January 03, 2011 01:18 AM
Edited by Lokheit at 01:55, 03 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Quote:
The fact that they are making some people rant like I'm seeing is what shows that they have a VERY GREAT marketing strategy.

People think they hurt them just ranting about what they think it's wrong and that they want more reveals, but in fact, even if they will never think they are helping them, it only helps to the expectation the game is generating. Well done Ubi-hole, well done...


You can't be serious... How many of us are here ranting? Why, we're not even more than 100 people altogether, and that's the most active forum we got. The rest don't care and could have possibly left already.

We're just the die-hard fans of the series, and we're not enough to generate profits for Ubisoft when the game's released. All the rest potential but not sure customers will probably not be buying Heroes VI due to the failure of creating a buzz around it.




You're right, we aren't a lot of people on this forum, but I know a LOT of people that never frequent forums for the games they buy (including a very high number of HOMM fans, I like to use forums for many games, but I'm probably the only one of my friends that do that).

For example, my best friend introduced me to the heroes series when we were children. Now I'm the one that gives him information about the new game because he doesn't like forums, but he is as fan as I am or even more. Same goes for a group of old friends of mine.


Is really incorrect to asume that the fanbase of a game is composed exclusively by the ones you can find on the frequented forums.

And about the marketing strategy: Read the bold part. I think is perfect how they are doing it. They are doing exactly the same that the new Mortal Kombat and Guild Wars 2 and other games are doing with the slow pace of reveals and ocasionally leaks. Some people can think that they could do a better marketing strategy, but in fact this ones are the most affected by the strategy. The seek of flaws makes the expectation grow without noticing it.

When you dedicate a lot of time to discuss a game, you will end up as a client or you are loosing a lot of time. Think about that, I never said you were one of that group ranting but you responded to that, and for what I see, this week you have been one of the most active posters even if half of the posts were against what they are doing. You are dedicating a lot of time to something you think is bad.

If you read the articles about the game you would find that they are generating more buzz that what you can think, the HOMM series never had the biggest fanbase in the world, but this one is creating expectation for what I'm reading and hearing.

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 03, 2011 02:07 AM
Edited by Jabanoss at 02:09, 03 Jan 2011.

Please Ubihole make one hell of reveal for the 5th faction when the time comes. One that will be remembered for generations to come. Something to create the buzz that this game deserves and needs.

Thinking of this reminds me of the time when I was waiting for Starcraft 2. That game was revealed 2007 and released 2010 so they had a bit more time to hype it and make crazy reveals then Heroes 6 can or ever could.
Anyway when Starcraft 2 revealed Zerg they made it quite epic. They updated their webpage with units and they gave the fans TWO videos. One that show casted units in combat and another video that was a pure trailer with awesome music, speech and scenes. This is something I would like to see for the reveal of the 5th faction in heroes 6.

Of course I understand that this might not be as easy to do for H6 since they don't have the same time or resources to do it. Neither would H6 be as suitable for epic battles/gameplay trailers. But please, please make a huge video or something that shows units, battles and things like that.
To but it simply make a grand video with epic music completely revealing the 5th faction.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 03, 2011 02:24 AM

huh?


Anyways something I forget to add, they need to reveal the faction soon. If the game is going to be released in Marsh it would only be advantageous to reveal the 5th faction in good time. To receive as much feedback and hype as possible.
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 03, 2011 08:22 AM

Actually you can see how many guests (which means non registered users) this forum has at any given time. You can also see how many people like their facebook page. And they are not many.

There's only so few of us, discussing and arguing about the game here and surely going to buy it in the end. But the rest of them aren't sure customers. Just because I care, doesn't mean there are hundreds of other people like me behind me.

And anyway, most of the casual gamers, those who are the ones to give any profit to Ubi (because the dedicated ones are always too few), don't know to visit any fansites. If they're to check for Heroes VI's news and updates, they will visit their official page (which is just a facebook link anyway), or gamespot or look for videos in Youtube.

And considering this, Heroes VI doesn't have much to show for itself, 3 months prior to releasing the game.

But anyway, I save my words and will let you see for yourself. We'll be here both of us, when the wikipedia article will be updated in March to talk about the poor reception and sales of the game. Unless big changes will be made in their marketing strategies.


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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!

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