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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ [ This thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 (88) 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 ]
kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 01, 2011 12:07 PM

@War-Overlord

Although what you say makes sense, I still think that Heroes VI suffers from an awful case of very bad marketing. Ubisoft underestimates the Might and Magic franchise, and that's a fact. If it's now a niche product, it's because Ubisoft made it to be so.

Instead of trying to explain what makes me think so, I will offer you an example:

I have a lot of friends in real life, who have played and enjoyed Heroes of Might and Magic in the past, many of them owned a copy or two of previous installments of the series, while others played through their friends' copies in hotseat mode.

Sure, none of them is a 'die hard' fan of the series, but they are all potential customers since they're familiar to the game. Word of mouth advertizing works up to a point. I've let them know that a new game is coming out this March. I told them what I know of it and showed them some of the fancy artwork. So what?

They're not convinced that it worths their while because there's nothing to keep their attention to it. I don't know how these things go but I'm sure that at least releasing tidbits of news and information in a frequent and regular basis, would go a long way without costing them too much if at all, either. Just to keep people interested...

We got people who could buy the new game since they bought previous games of the series before that. What does Ubisoft do about them?

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Zenofex
Zenofex


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
posted January 01, 2011 12:24 PM
Edited by Zenofex at 12:43, 01 Jan 2011.

War-overlord, I don't understand what are you trying to say. Moreover, some of your points are completely incorrect. Heroes is not a niche product, it's one of the most famous brands in the industry and although it will not sell as many copies as a random highly advertised FPS or MMORPG, it will certainly return the investments. You are greatly underestimating its potential just to prove some point. And I don't know what is this point either.
Additionally, we are talking about next to no expenses here. Seriously, how much do you think it costs to release the screenshots of a few creatures or heroes? To record one gameplay video and upload it on youtube? To say something about the game mechanics? This is what the fans want. Everybody can afford this and we are talking about a rich and famous publisher here. I think you are trying to play an educated neutral analyst, but why?

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KingImp
KingImp


Famous Hero
posted January 01, 2011 12:36 PM

Quote:
I still think that Heroes VI suffers from an awful case of very bad marketing. Ubisoft underestimates the Might and Magic franchise, and that's a fact. If it's now a niche product, it's because Ubisoft made it to be so.

Instead of trying to explain what makes me think so, I will offer you an example:

I have a lot of friends in real life, who have played and enjoyed Heroes of Might and Magic in the past, many of them owned a copy or two of previous installments of the series, while others played through their friends' copies in hotseat mode.

Sure, none of them is a 'die hard' fan of the series, but they are all potential customers since they're familiar to the game. Word of mouth advertizing works up to a point. I've let them know that a new game is coming out this March. I told them what I know of it and showed them some of the fancy artwork. So what?

They're not convinced that it worths their while because there's nothing to keep their attention to it. I don't know how these things go but I'm sure that at least releasing tidbits of news and information in a frequent and regular basis, would go a long way without costing them too much if at all, either. Just to keep people interested...

We got people who could buy the new game since they bought previous games of the series before that. What does Ubisoft do about them?



I can't be certain on exact dates, but I went back among the archives of the official forums and for Heroes 5 there was much more info released that close to the supposed release date.

I mean back in January 2006 they already had all the factions and units revealed and an open beta test was going on for everyone. That was roughly 4 months out from the May release that year. Here we are two months away from the supposed March release date and aside from the German site leak we would only know about 3 out of the 5 factions.

Either they are just dragging their feet on this one, or this game is not even gonna come close to being released in March.

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War-overlord Online
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted January 01, 2011 12:39 PM

Quote:
I still think that Heroes VI suffers from an awful case of very bad marketing. Ubisoft underestimates the Might and Magic franchise, and that's a fact. If it's now a niche product, it's because Ubisoft made it to be so.
\

You do of course realise that Might&Magic has been property of the 3DO company up until 2003. After the bankrupcy of 3DO, ubisoft bought the francise and rebooted it in 2006. If anyone is to blame for it being a niche-product, it's 3DO, who set the francise. Ubisoft is continuing it, knowing that if they radically change it, they loose the entire market. I am very sure that if they released a WoW clone set in the Might&Magic world, they would alienate a lot of the longtime fans.

Concerning your example:

First let me say that I very much pity your friends. For their lack of patientce and longterm attention span.

You say that, opposed to you I expect, they are not die-hard fans. The artwork did not keep them interested and neither did the film-clips that circle the web. That is a pity, to be sure. No seeing how you're convinced that they will like the new game, you will, no doubt, show them the finished product once it is released. If that convinces them to play the product, all the better. If it did not, then they would not have bought the product anyway. Marketing or not. Or they would have bought it and they would not have liked it and they would be dissatisfied customers.
If they haven't the will or the attention to keep themselves up with the news, either on the site or on one of the fansites, already I doubt that more artwork or screenshots could keep their attention.

Lastly what is Ubisoft doing for the hardcore fans, you ask?
They've invited several key-fans on their insiders-forum to shed their light on development. Trying to make something the fans will like. They are giving us news, at irregular intervals, but that is better than none at all. What they do bring out, they may revise if the fans do not like it. As we've seen with some names of creatures earlier.
And lastly, they are making a new game. Given the ammount of criticism they got for the last game, especially from the fans, it is somewhat surprising that they are already bringing out a game at all. They've tried to make a few spin-offs, which are also part of the long-term marketing plan.
I am convinced that Ubisoft is doing a whole lot for us, even if we do not see it or fail to recognise it.
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torin856
torin856


Hired Hero
posted January 01, 2011 12:58 PM

What I've just spoken it's not about money it's about mentality.

WEBSITE
Okay, an informative website needs some more work (and money) than this one, but I don't think that the budget of MMH6 makes possible only this something. The design is great but the content is a shame. A simple page with a video, factions, developer diary, wallpapers, media, storyline, etc... sections refreshed 1-2 times in every week would be manna. Is that really that big ask? Tons of freemade fansites (look at Geenie's Lamp, Celestial Heavens for example) are out there with these functions. Trust me it wouldn't eat up that much cash.

NEWSLETTER
It doesn't exists. Okay if they don't have money they don't need to create some nice, cool looking newsletters but a letter in every week or so with the most important news is a musthave I think.

SCREENSHOTS, ARTWORKS
You can find the same ingame screenshots on the official "site" (facebook) in this quality (720×450) and you can find it on the internet in this quality (1920×1200). Why?
Ah, and the official site has a screenshot panel but we have there only the first batch, nothing about the new screenshots. Why?
And there are tons of screenshots those were not posted on the official site or facebook (example 1, example 2, artwork example and you can find much more). Why?

VIDEOS
This is the toughest one because according to the official site, gameplay videos don't even sexist!
And the reality? You can find circa 15-20 different (but they contain mostly the same scenes) videos all over the internet. All of them are in awful quality. High quality, 720p or 1080p videos on the official site? Nice dream!
Maybe they don't think that the quality of the first 2 leaked videos were good enough to show us? Fair enough, but the leak happened so no way back. They easily can now share with us the HQ versions that they showed on the gamescom.
And they have at least one high quality gameplay that they found good enough to show the audience on VGL event in France but we got nothing (okay, I think that one is exclusive for the concerts but something like that had to be a Christmas gift or something...).
Hint: even games with much lower expectations have usually developer diary videos about game mechanics with gameplay scenes in every month or so. They are awesome. I can tell minimum 4-5 games that I bought just because dev diary videos made them interesting to me.

MUSICS
This part is okay. The only one music is the trailer music for now and they gave it to us on facebook.
The VGL event music is exclusive I think so no chance for that for now.


INFOS (story, game mechanics, etc..)
It's a strange situation.
If somebody doesn't read fansites, only the official site he/she'll know NOTHING about the game. The official site doesn't even says that it'll take place on the same universe, it'll be turn based, it'll contains 5 factions, etc... Absolutely nothing. Just some pics, 2 videos and links to forums, facebook, twitter, that's all.
But we, fans who read fansites every day get lots of well detailed information. We can't coplain about this.
The only problem is that these information comes mostly not in nicely wrote posts (newsletter again, or developer diary) wrote directly to us from the producer, community manager, etc, but are cut from interviews or are posts from some "insider community member" who "spoke about it with Xhane". Which is a little bit annoying. Sounds like the game producer/community manager/etc doesn't really bothers with the whole "not VIP" community. They don't spend time to write us a newsletter, some well drawn articles, etc. Just "hey, VIP, you can say others this, this and this informations for now".
The developer is kind of an exception. They wrote us some well detailed post to discuss.

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 01, 2011 01:07 PM
Edited by kodial79 at 13:08, 01 Jan 2011.

Surely 3DO did some heavy damage to the series, but Ubisoft did nothing much to bring it up to its feet again. And Ubisoft is a company which could invest and if really wanted, could bring it back up. Heroes of Might and Magic III did get to be Game of the Year, so the potential is there.  

The criticism on H5 could just as well be ignored, it's just a clique of NWC loyalists, who would object to the changes regardless of how well did H5 played out or not.

You are wrong about your assumptions on my friends. Keep themselves up with what news exactly? The Eclipse that happened somewhere in the world? The Video Game Live playing some themes of past games? Who cares? Even I don't care about all that.

Me and my friends discussed about the Q&A's, the screenshots and the artwork but that can only last so long. There are so many other games out there that will draw their attention from Heroes if there's nothing new to be seen here.

I don't know about you, but we're not all rich boys who afford to buy several games a year. I limit myself to buying one per year, at best two. So do my friends. By the time the finished product is out, by the time we know a lot about it to decide, it will probably be too late.

So should I buy Heroes VI (so far I'm leaning towards not to), I would show it to my friends, they will like it for sure but by then they could have already bought or be won over by Dragon Age 2, Witcher 2, Diablo III, Cataclysm, or any other...

I find myself leaning more towards Diablo III to tell you the truth. It's going to be a lot of fun playing co-op with my friends, and I'm already drooling all over the Barbarian and Demon Hunter gameplay videos like they're made of chocolate!

I decided to wait on Heroes VI until a fanmade or official RMG in an expansion will be available. But by then might already be too late.

I did not ask what Ubi does for hardcore fans. I ask what Ubi does for POTENTIAL customers like my friends. The answer to that is nothing.

And just like I said and KingImp and Zenofex as well pointed out, it wouldn't cost them anything to keep updating us with news just to keep us interested in their game.







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Xerox
Xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted January 01, 2011 01:13 PM

Meh, I do not think they think this was "horrible" or anything like that. I do not think it will do much damage. Mainly because first of all, HoMM is not a big franchise with an enormous fanbase. The media has barely spoken about it and most of my RL friends and even my dad who played H3 a lot when I was younger have had no idea of that H6 is even under development.
And those that are loyal fans, 90% of those were already sure that the Naga were going to be the 5th faction because you just do not make concept arts for a Naga town for several years and then throw it into the garbage bag.
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Kenishi
Kenishi


Known Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted January 01, 2011 02:54 PM
Edited by Kenishi at 14:58, 01 Jan 2011.

Quote:
Well, you're wrong in this supposition.

Firstly, there's no buzz in the media about Heroes VI and the Average Joe is not even aware the game is going to be released in 3 months from now.

Secondly, the Average Joe would be pissed off more to see the game not containing what he thought he would (when compared to previous games of the series) due to the LACK of information prior to releasing the game, and what little information is there, not circulating around very well.

See, how many potential customers know Heroes VI is coming out? A certain number of them. How many have seen the trailer? Fewer. How many have seen the revealed artwork? Even fewer. How many have read the Q&A's giving info on the game? Even fewer. And your Average Joe does not belong in that group.

He would see the trailer on Youtube by chance, if even that. He would buy the game after he accidentally bumps on it in a video game store, assuming that he wasn't going for something more specific. And then he would be pissed off and want his money back because for example, the game only  has 5 factions. It was explained in the Q&A, but o fcourse the Average Joe, did not find it and did not read it.

Certainly, he would not be pissed off because he saw some low resolution artwork close-up on faces on a Christmas Tree and then he couldn't locate them anywhere in the game's models.



   

   I feel I should apologize I could have been more precise UNLIKELY SUPPOSITION, you shouldn't dissect the idea I head I wasn't trying to modeled on to this given situation (I even put pink hanging plant), but on a hole picture of the NDA agreement and the rezone it exists is to avoid creating unpleasant precedents for example

http://crazytopics.blogspot.com/2006/12/10-craziest-lawsuits.html

O and there is buzz in the media (Internet / Gaming Magazines) and also I think you have to much faith in people and their ability to rezone but remember if geniuses exit … there opposite must exist also.


Quote:

obviously ur not familiar with the average Joe coz 1. he doesnt even like the pink hanging plant, 2. there was no buzz created by homm 6 coz their marketing strategy is horrible, 3. Joe has never spent his money on the game after seeing one picture, 4. u can’t really sue the game over smth as leaked picture even if u were OJ simpson...
5. yup u should look at the four points as humoristic... but only coz your scenario was humoristic as well

on the other note HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL, THE MOST AMAZING YEAR EVER WITH TONS OF HAPPINESS, LOVE, AWESOME HEALTH AND COUNTLESS OF HRS SPENT ON HOMM6, and of course if I ever encounter u guys in a virtual combat i promise to say a couple of nice words over your lifeless bodies



Regarding Average Joe please follow link to see what some people sue for, so to finish my idea instead of fixing a problem is better to avoid it hence the NDA.

Yes the whole pink hanging plant was supposed to give the situation I created an unlikely chance of happening (and also a less serious approach to the situation and not the idea i was trying to convene).

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 01, 2011 04:35 PM

Quote:
No it could not because they are not awesome, they are only good at best. (in my very own personal opinion of course )

Those units should have been replaced by creatures or something more creative, I guess the Dark raiders fine though. (note I'm only talking about the units themselves not their abilities.)


The abilities of a unit, are as important as their design and race, if not even more. What is the point of having units that have no special abilities and instead are mere flyers, ranged, meleee or caster stereotypes? To me, that's what makes for an unimaginative faction line-up.

Dark Elves were more awesome for me, than Gorgons could ever be. Killer designs, cool animations, villainous attitudes, and in the end of it all, I like race based faction better than random monster factions.


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Jabanoss
Jabanoss


Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
posted January 01, 2011 04:48 PM
Edited by Jabanoss at 16:48, 01 Jan 2011.

I think you misunderstood me

Of course all units should have cool and useful abilities. That's MORE important to me than HOW COOL a unit is.
I'm simply trying to say that if ignoring the abilities of those unit, they were boring.

Dark Raiders were kinda cool but the rider looked stupid.

Blood Maidens were ridiculous, a pack of girls with daggers and only dressed in "underwear", huh?
Their ability for example fits a flying unit like the Harpy a lot more.

Shadow Mistresses were okey, but could have been something much cooler.

And the Assassins didn't fit as a level 1 unit.

Of all the factions in H5 Dungeon is in fact MY FAVORITE but they were so, so much cooler in heroes 3. Dark elves are cool but they came at the price of the troglodytes and warlock minotaurs, something that I personally don't approve of...

In any case  I guess the liking of the Gorgon is kinda different. People like me and SwampLord likes them while people like you prefer elves in black leather
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Kenishi
Kenishi


Known Hero
passed out drunk in Tavern's
posted January 02, 2011 02:03 AM
Edited by Kenishi at 02:06, 02 Jan 2011.

Quote:
I think you misunderstood me

Of course all units should have cool and useful abilities. That's MORE important to me than HOW COOL a unit is.
I'm simply trying to say that if ignoring the abilities of those unit, they were boring.

Dark Raiders were kinda cool but the rider looked stupid.

Blood Maidens were ridiculous, a pack of girls with daggers and only dressed in "underwear", huh?
Their ability for example fits a flying unit like the Harpy a lot more.

Shadow Mistresses were okey, but could have been something much cooler.

And the Assassins didn't fit as a level 1 unit.

Ofwere so, so much cooler i all the factions in H5 Dungeon is in fact MY FAVORITE but they in heroes 3. Dark elves are cool but they came at the price of the troglodytes and warlock minotaurs, something that I personally don't approve of...

In any case  I guess the liking of the Gorgon is kinda different. People like me and SwampLord likes them while people like you prefer elves in black leather


The Dungeon of H5 was I guess, for a lack of better expression a full “Fan service” that you find in some anime, kind of lineup which explains the bikini outfit.
Assassin as a first tier was just so inappropriate, they could have gone with troglodyte’s or even kobolds from D&D universe or the Beholders, I just don’t get way those units haven’t been considered and the hydra shouldn`t have been used in the lineup maybe as a neutral as to leave a door open for a FORTRSS like faction H3 had, but I guess they already had in plan a full dwarven lineup called Fortress and didn’t bothered.
And the good feature that I liked is the effort to make them as different as they could from the Sylvan faction through the architecture and the enclosed felling that the town gave.
So my hopes for H6 is that we get to see the return of Gorgons and Basilisks, even if not in a town called Fortress but at least derived from the H3 one, or at least as neutrals beside Troglodytes, Beholders.


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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 02, 2011 02:40 AM

You do realise that Hydra had already been with the Warlocks for 3 of the 4 games right, Hydra is 3rd creature of the Warlock lineup.

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted January 02, 2011 02:46 AM

Quote:
Assassin as a first tier was just so inappropriate


But it's one of the very few things that carry on the Heroes IV legacy! It's even less now, other than Centaurs and Harpies in Stronghold, H6 doesn't seem to be inspired by H4 creature lineups at all...

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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 02, 2011 02:50 AM

Ah, but I'm not talking about the H5 Dungeon line-up in its entirety. I'm talking about the 4 Dark Elf units as compared to the Gorgon of H3.

The point I'm trying to make is this: People think the H3 Gorgon is awesome, which is purely subjective and I don't dispute it either. But what they forget or willingly ignore, is that it's a D&D exclusive creature which, when they go around and complain about originality, should not have been part of the game either.

If they don't mind about this, then it's all good. Then one also can say that the 4 Dark Elves of H5 Dungeon are also awesome, under the same reasoning. That they're awesome, it's purely subjective and we could argue about it to no end. That they're not original, it's a fact.

They are copies of those found in Warhammer and if people don't care that the Gorgon is a copy of the one found in D&D, then they should not care that Dark Elves are copies of those in Warhammer.

Do we agree on this?

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted January 02, 2011 02:53 AM
Edited by SwampLord at 02:55, 02 Jan 2011.

Kodial,

My reasons for disliking the H5 Dungeon lineup is that it's mostly ripped directly from a single Warhammer faction. I would have no problem if it borrowed Warhammer creatures, but the fact that they more or less took an entire faction straight was a little lame.

I don't mind the D&D creature rips because they're a wide variety of unrelated monsters; likewise, if HV Dungeon had some monsters from 3-4 Warhammer armies, I wouldn't care. It's just that they come completely, more or less, from one Warhammer army, and I object to that.

Furthermore, I also disliked that the ripped creatures were humanoid in nature; HoMM has always featured beasts and monsters fighting and so I objected a bit to taking so many mostly-human units. Makes it feel even less original than taking a bunch of monsters, as they all look very similar.
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 02, 2011 03:32 AM

So 4 out of 7 units were taken from Warhammer (Scout, Maiden, Raider, Mistress). Same thing could be said for Fortress, 4 out of 7. Gorgon, Basilisk, Gnoll from D&D, Lizardman from Warhammer. Your point is?

Your other points of argument, are subjective too. It doesn't matter where were they taken from and how many of them. It doesn't matter if they're humanoid or beasts. What matters and I'm questioning here, is that they're not original. Are we ok with this or not?

A simple yes or no will do. But when you answer, you answer for all the creatures taken from elsewhere. Not just Gorgons or just Dark Elves.





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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted January 02, 2011 03:41 AM

Quote:
Furthermore, I also disliked that the ripped creatures were humanoid in nature; HoMM has always featured beasts and monsters fighting and so I objected a bit to taking so many mostly-human units. Makes it feel even less original than taking a bunch of monsters, as they all look very similar.


Well of course that's because of the more complex storyline, where they want to involve all factions. In H3 they barely came up with stories for the factions that were just random monsters together. Only Academy transferred to H5 with a justification to its random lineup but otherwise as long as the game takes place in Ashan, every faction bar Inferno will have several humanoid units in them so they can be recognized as a race. Dark Elves seemed like a bigger rip off because of the Warhammer game released around the same time but it's not like the rest of the races are any more original and I don't think they will ever try to come up with something that's not among the familiar fantasy races.

I don't think that was ever the goal for Heroes, it's just a matter of the personal experience, when H3 came out, many of the players were young and it was the first time they saw those races and monsters, same way there will be new players who experience the same with H6 and they will "feel" that it's original, especially the supposed Naga faction as it's not been in THAT many games, but some of the longtime players are calling it unoriginal because they appeared in Warcraft already.

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted January 02, 2011 03:48 AM
Edited by SwampLord at 03:50, 02 Jan 2011.

Quote:
So 4 out of 7 units were taken from Warhammer (Scout, Maiden, Raider, Mistress). Same thing could be said for Fortress, 4 out of 7. Gorgon, Basilisk, Gnoll from D&D, Lizardman from Warhammer. Your point is?

Your other points of argument, are subjective too. It doesn't matter where were they taken from and how many of them. It doesn't matter if they're humanoid or beasts. What matters and I'm questioning here, is that they're not original. Are we ok with this or not?

A simple yes or no will do. But when you answer, you answer for all the creatures taken from elsewhere. Not just Gorgons or just Dark Elves.





If you read my post, you'll note that I objected specifically to the fact that they ripped stuff directly from a single faction of Warhammer. That's why I didn't like it, and you're welcome to disagree with it, but you can hardly say "it doesn't matter where they were taken from and how many of them", because for me it does.


Arguing originality in HoMM is a complete fallacy anyways, as HoMM has always been about creatures taken from other settings and made thrown together in interesting ways; the vast majority of HoMM creatures are not and never have been original. I don't really see the issue of whether or not it's taken from D&D, Warhammer or ancient mythology.

I don't have an issue with the fact that HV Dungeon is taken from something, I have an issue with the way it was taken.
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kodial79
kodial79


Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
posted January 02, 2011 04:41 AM
Edited by kodial79 at 04:42, 02 Jan 2011.

What you object to, is purely opiniated and it's really not about the current topic of our conversation. What I wanted to know is an answer to my question. And I took it. It's ok for Heroes of Might and Magic to not be original. Now can we have Murlocs as units, please?


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Qumi
Qumi

Tavern Dweller
posted January 02, 2011 05:18 AM

I really dislike the pursuit of the idea of originality as uniqueness and elements which were never present anywhere. Originality is even more about using old elements in new ways, in new combinations. For example Orcs are almost everywhere, but in Warhammer universe they are mushrooms, in Tolkien mutated elves, and so on...

Using elements from other games, elements that work well for this game, is original and good.

Moreover, they say that everything that man could imagine has been already imagined, we now only recreate thigns, bind them in different combinations, etc.
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