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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: New (unofficial) patch for ToE / AI mod
Thread: New (unofficial) patch for ToE / AI mod This thread is 37 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 30 ... 33 34 35 36 37 · «PREV / NEXT»
Crispy_Critter
Crispy_Critter


Hired Hero
posted February 11, 2011 01:17 AM

Quantomas,

I have a clean TotE archived that I can run tests on. I'm swamped in secular work for the next week and a half, but I'll try to put some time into it this weekend.

P.S. I definitely remember the chess game in Star Wars. I thought maybe someone had actually made it into a computer game that somehow escaped my attention. I'm glad you straightened me out, I probably would have burned up my computer searching e-bay for a copy.

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Cynric
Cynric

Tavern Dweller
posted February 11, 2011 04:23 PM
Edited by Cynric at 16:36, 11 Feb 2011.

First off, Thank you thank you thank you. Amazingly fast AI.

Now for my input, on 3 different copies of Win7 all 64bit i've found the same crash at about week 4. The final copy tested on was a brand new computer fresh install of the game. Your AI mod is the only add on I use. I am using steam, but it has no problem starting using your mod.

On a newly created random map, created under the original game, played with your mod, it crashed on first AI turn, tried compatibility mode Win XP SP3 & run as administrator.

Please let me know what other info I can send to help in squashing this bug.

Edit:
Tried again on a new RMG smaller map with same results crash on first AI turn.

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Ghostbuster
Ghostbuster

Tavern Dweller
posted February 11, 2011 07:31 PM

Just beat an AI on heroic but boy it was hard...he kicked my ass so many times before I defeated him .The mod is good and it really speeds up the computers' turn which is a big plus.Btw is it possible to make autosaving faster?
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Proxeeus
Proxeeus


Hired Hero
posted February 11, 2011 08:46 PM

I managed to get a crash with the debug version yesterday night. Data has been logged in a file larger than 39mb, and I couldn't find any indications about a potential error =/ The map was a Random one, 'Impossible' size.

I tried to get another crash log tonight but I didn't succeed :| 5 months in and no crashes, damn. On a 'Large' map.

And that got me thinking... Do you think crashes could actually be related to map size?
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Quantomas
Quantomas


Promising
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted February 12, 2011 09:36 AM
Edited by Quantomas at 09:43, 12 Feb 2011.

@Crispy_Critter

It's more important that we focus our effort. While it would be nice to know which mods run with the AI patch this shouldn't be our top priority right now. So, if you are very busy, no need to push hard for this now.

I think that the current modding interface is the main problem and plan along the road to simplify that. Sort of a clean interface that allows for many more advanced customizations and makes these hacks unnecessary that now make mods incompatible with each other. More internal flexibility that supports for example a customizable spell system that the modders can define their own spells (the effect, description, picture), creature modifications, hero perks and more in a consistent way that is supported by the game. A configuration file in XML would be the first choice. I would implement the necessary interface in H5, while others can possibly create an UI to edit the XML more easily.

@Proxeeus

Thanks a lot for your effort.

Sorry to hear that it gives you this much trouble. Murphy's law at work. Did the crash happen the way you experienced before, with the advance warning indicators?

It's more easy to test the build with smaller maps, turn processing times will be faster, and to save/load/play different maps for a month or so each, to put more stress on the application. That crashes might happen less frequently on the debug build, enforces my suspicion that it is a synchronization issue, I doubt it's map size related. Again, two crashes will suffice for now, please don't spend more time on this.

@Cynric: You are welcome.

I will try to adjust a number of build parameters this weekend and see whether I can find something to zoom in on the cause of the Win7 stability issue and to create a new build that we can test on Win7 asap to nail down this issue. If it runs stable on my Win7 installation, I will make the new test build available.

It would be great if you guys could test its stability on your Win7 PCs then, but please don't spend more time testing on Win7 with the current build. The tests Proxeeus does should be sufficient.

Quote:
Just beat an AI on heroic but boy it was hard...he kicked my ass so many times before I defeated him .The mod is good and it really speeds up the computers' turn which is a big plus.Btw is it possible to make autosaving faster?

Thanks, nice to know that you like it. You mean that you lost battles, and retreated? Battles against Dungeon with high level spells can be a blast.

Regarding autosave times, you can use a ramdisk with its own autosave (write to hard disk) function for the savegames, this will reduce the waiting times at the turn end.

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Proxeeus
Proxeeus


Hired Hero
posted February 12, 2011 10:23 AM
Edited by Proxeeus at 10:31, 12 Feb 2011.

Quote:
@Proxeeus

Thanks a lot for your effort.

Sorry to hear that it gives you this much trouble. Murphy's law at work. Did the crash happen the way you experienced before, with the advance warning indicators?

It's more easy to test the build with smaller maps, turn processing times will be faster, and to save/load/play different maps for a month or so each, to put more stress on the application. That crashes might happen less frequently on the debug build, enforces my suspicion that it is a synchronization issue, I doubt it's map size related. Again, two crashes will suffice for now, please don't spend more time on this.


Yep, I had kind of a "slowdown" during the start of the AI turns and crashed right after. I'll try to get this second crash today. Do you still need the logs?

Quote:
More internal flexibility that supports for example a customizable spell system that the modders can define their own spells (the effect, description, picture), creature modifications, hero perks and more in a consistent way that is supported by the game. A configuration file in XML would be the first choice. I would implement the necessary interface in H5, while others can possibly create an UI to edit the XML more easily.


I like where this is going... Sounds awesome.


[edit] While I'm here, it looks like the AI has trouble finding its way on Island maps; for example yesterday I played a stock 2vs2 island map (can't remember the name) and for most of its duration, the blue player (after having flagged / harvested everything he could) just went back & forth from his castle, to another remote point of its island, and the green player, which was on a boat, went back & forth between a coast (trying to land, it seemed) and the middle of the ocean. Strange.
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Quantomas
Quantomas


Promising
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted February 12, 2011 10:59 AM
Edited by Quantomas at 11:09, 12 Feb 2011.

Quote:
Do you still need the logs?

Yes, to see whether there is a pattern detectable. You can HCM me for this.

Regarding the crashs, I am pretty sure that it is not AI related but has something to do that I/O, UAC or whatever on Win7 works different. I could produce crashes on H5, also on the stock H5 version on my machine, even if the AI was never invoked (before I played a game). But what I hope to see from the logs is if there is something that points me in the right direction, whether it's memory corruption, I/O etc. I know what the logs are supposed to look like, and when things start to deviate from the expected patterns.

Regarding the AI behaviour, there are stock maps where the AI heroes are constrained to a region for a time. If you like to see what the AI does on an island map, try the map My Home is My Castle.

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Proxeeus
Proxeeus


Hired Hero
posted February 12, 2011 12:16 PM
Edited by Proxeeus at 12:16, 12 Feb 2011.

Ok I managed to get another crash on an Impossible size map. Here is the link to the zipped file containing the two logs:

http://dl.free.fr/em5ksCN1K

Cheers
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FrostyMuadDib
FrostyMuadDib


Supreme Hero
By the power of Vivendi!
posted February 12, 2011 08:25 PM

First of all, this mod is great!!! Finaly, Heroes 5 is playable. I played several scenarios without a problem. Only thing I noticed that is not working properly is wide screen resolution (1280x800). But I am not sure that is because of the mod, although this resolution works with standard heroes 3.1.

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Eliteleader
Eliteleader


Adventuring Hero
posted February 13, 2011 04:08 AM

Wow, this looks really awesome! I would love to play around with this a bit as soon as I have the time since im pretty busy at the moment. I'm running w7 atm so I'll report back if I run into any issues.

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Quantomas
Quantomas


Promising
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted February 15, 2011 10:36 PM
Edited by Quantomas at 22:39, 15 Feb 2011.

Ok, I tried to produce a build that runs cleanly under Win7 but alas without success. I guess the world will move on if programmers stop cleaning up after Microsoft with their idea of creating *almost* compatible interfaces, and so should we.

I will state clearly in the readme of the next AI mod release that it is compatible with Windows XP only. One of the last things Nival did was to make Heroes V dpi-aware, and I assume they did a lot of testing under Vista for this. But there is very little I can do right now without extra knowledge or insights of this process.

Proxeeus, thanks again for helping and thanks to all who provided feedback regarding the stability under Win7, but from now on please don't spend any more time on running tests on Win7.

That said, it's time to move on and to focus on recreating Heroes V with a new vision and improving the AI, the modding interface and what else we can up with.

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted February 16, 2011 12:30 AM

Quote:
Ok, I tried to produce a build that runs cleanly under Win7 but alas without success. I guess the world will move on if programmers stop cleaning up after Microsoft with their idea of creating *almost* compatible interfaces, and so should we.


Thank you for trying. Can't say enough about that. I was awaiting the outcome but it looks like the partition is the way to go.

Quote:
That said, it's time to move on and to focus on recreating Heroes V with a new vision and improving the AI, the modding interface and what else we can up with.


You've got big plans. I came late to H5 here at HC so I do not know many modders (or mappers for that matter) but I know I've still seen some work, even with H6 just around the corner. I mention that because of the modding interface part of your vision. So, a first task would be to get the news to those who may able to contribute a great deal in regards to any area?

Care to share your initial vision or direction and in what ways others could contribute?

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Cynric
Cynric

Tavern Dweller
posted February 16, 2011 03:32 AM

Yes thanks for at least trying, thats more then Ubisoft ever did.
I'll just have to settle with watching tv inbetween turns while i try and find a copy of XP lol

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proxeeus
proxeeus


Hired Hero
posted February 16, 2011 09:08 AM
Edited by proxeeus at 09:08, 16 Feb 2011.

Ah well no problem, thanks a lot for trying to fix the compatibility issue; at least we can truly put the matter to rest now and move on
Any special changes already implemented for the next release or do you still need feedback from the current version?

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Gnoll_Mage
Gnoll_Mage


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted February 16, 2011 09:33 PM

Quote:
Ok, I tried to produce a build that runs cleanly under Win7 but alas without success. I guess the world will move on if programmers stop cleaning up after Microsoft with their idea of creating *almost* compatible interfaces, and so should we.

I will state clearly in the readme of the next AI mod release that it is compatible with Windows XP only. One of the last things Nival did was to make Heroes V dpi-aware, and I assume they did a lot of testing under Vista for this. But there is very little I can do right now without extra knowledge or insights of this process.

Proxeeus, thanks again for helping and thanks to all who provided feedback regarding the stability under Win7, but from now on please don't spend any more time on running tests on Win7.

That said, it's time to move on and to focus on recreating Heroes V with a new vision and improving the AI, the modding interface and what else we can up with.

I can't work it out from this - will it work on Vista?
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Quantomas
Quantomas


Promising
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted February 17, 2011 12:47 AM
Edited by Quantomas at 11:13, 17 Feb 2011.

As a side effect of working on the Win7 compatibility I have cleaned up the code and produced a better optimized build that is a bit faster in all departments. You find the build at the original location H5AI_31.zip. It's not a new release with new functions but I have updated the readme.

I have tested the build on Markkur's map and I got the impression that the lighting is more accurate.

One thing for sure Markkur is a real map-making wizard. I have uploaded a couple of screenshots from Dread Realms.

The point I wish to make is that the graphics of computer games matured around the time H5 appeared. While you can always do more, the visuals for the type of game we have are stunning. But please have a look yourself. Note the subtle lighting effects.

Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_001.png
Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_002.png
Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_004.png
Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_005.png
Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_006.png
Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_007.png
Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_008.png
Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_009.png
Dread_Realms_ScrnShot_010.png

It is up to us to fill this game with life. If we have a fully working AI we can create all sorts of subtle and advanced gameplay that brings this stunningly beautiful world to life. It's not only about strategic contest, a fully featured AI can enable gameplay elements that have yet to be seen in strategy games, destructive and constructive alike.

I have to add that the upgraded AI was originally developed as a potential replacement for the AI developed by Nival. But it is a mere prototype, probably only about five percent of its full potential realised. I was reluctant to work further on the AI as long as Ubisoft hadn't approved its release. Time is always short and the AI could just as well be employed for another project. But now that we have Ubisoft's approval, it's time to move at full speed.

What I plan to have up in the next time is a proper description and schedule for the work on a reimagined Heroes V. This will be one part a definition of the full AI with all its designated features, second a description of its current state and limitations plus the work scheduled. I will put up features that are scheduled to be implemented, and I would wish for us to discuss what we think important and what should have a priority.

The same organisation will also apply to the modding interface - I think we should move forward to a clean XML configuration file for everything - and additional tools for content creation as well as gameplay features as well.

So, we will have five main categories for work:

1. AI
2. Advanced modding interface
3. Tools for content creation
4. Refined and advanced gameplay
5. Reenvisioned campaign

Each category will consist of

(a) a definition of objectives
(b) its current state and limitations plus the work scheduled
(c) requested features and proposed changes

Ideally I would like to have this process open to the community, so that anyone can add feature requests and propose changes and that we decide as a community in which direction to move forward and what our priorities are.

Think big. We can do anything we can imagine and get to work. We are not limited by a design document. Here are a couple of examples of possible changes:

(1) What do you think of having the native terrain around a castle having a much more profound impact? That (a) travel for non-natives is impeded (slowed down) even on roads, that (b) hit points are reduced and that (c) depending on the native faction a malus is applied (e.g. on morale for Haven, luck for Elves, spell power for Dungeon, mana for Academy etc). And that (d) this effect is the stronger the longer a non-native hero remains in enemy territory. This would allow for a stronger shift of the balance in favour of defenders, and make for interesting strategic choices in respect of which factions to battle under given circumstances.

(2) What do you think instead of hunting/grinding down enemy forces once you have reached a superior position, what about allowing for an arena contest between the strongest heroes of each faction, if a number of prerequisites are fulfilled?

These are just examples to demonstrate that we have an enormous freedom and opportunity to develop an entirely new game as we see fit. With a fully featured AI and an advanced modding interface that adapts to the desires of the modders in our community and our own much more user-friendly content tools, I don't see why we shouldn't become the premier modding community in our realm.

But more than that, I believe we can create a strategy game like no other.

@Gnoll_Mage: the new build is technically only approved on Windows XP. But it might be running stable on some machines, the chances are actually better than with the earlier released build.

@Markkur: I hope that many more can join us. Once I find the time to put all the required information into a central web space and we start to move forward with our process, I hope that more people will notice what we do.

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Lichking012
Lichking012


Known Hero
posted February 17, 2011 05:25 AM

This is sounding more and more like the Next WOG. I love it. I have to say, I am really really really really really really impressed with your work. Keep it up

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markkur
markkur


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
posted February 17, 2011 06:45 AM

There is a lot here to talk about but I'll keep it short.

Quote:
What I plan to have up in the next time is a proper description and schedule for the work on a reimagined Heroes V. This will be one part a definition of the full AI with all its designated features, second a description of its current state and limitations plus the work scheduled. I will put up features that are scheduled to be implemented, and I would wish for us to discuss what we think important and what should have a priority.


As I read your plans, it's clear to me you have very good organizational skills. That will really help getting everyone's ideas together, thought-out and implemented, as well as helping to guide the process of working towards the results you're after in the different areas. Like the rest that've posted, I'm excited too.

Quote:
Think big. We can do anything we can imagine and get to work. We are not limited by a design document. Here are a couple of examples of possible changes:


I'm thinking bigger now than a few days ago To this comment, we have scads of ideas from the community. Good feedback that pertains to wishes for H6 will certainly work to this effort. When we cross that bridge I can gather it up for you as a single source and we can use it as a tool for discussions wherever useful.

Quote:
(1) What do you think of having the native terrain around a castle having a much more profound impact? That (a) travel for non-natives is impeded (slowed down) even on roads, that (b) hit points are reduced and that (c) depending on the native faction a malus is applied (e.g. on morale for Haven, luck for Elves, spell power for Dungeon, mana for Academy etc). And that (d) this effect is the stronger the longer a non-native hero remains in enemy territory.


I think it has promise. I've seen thoughts here that resemble it concerning other game facets. i.e. "Creatures and terrain effects" say, underground affecting flyers etc. Could gameplay be altered in this regard as well since it is so similar?

Quote:
(2) What do you think instead of hunting/grinding down enemy forces once you have reached a superior position, what about allowing for an arena contest between the strongest heroes of each faction, if a number of prerequisites are fulfilled?


I like it. It could be called i.e. "Hall of Decision", "Final Fury", "Doom Duel" or "Battle of Fate" and when summoned; whatever armies are carried by those main Heroes at that time...that's the final battle Unless of course the forces were preset based on stats to force a fair fight. What could be funny is to think you have the upper hand and call for the battle only to find out you're outmatched. "Too late Markkur, you cannot un-doom...you're doomed"

Quote:
I don't see why we shouldn't become the premier modding community in our realm.


Good organizational skills will certainly help make that come true.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted February 17, 2011 01:57 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 14:01, 17 Feb 2011.

I suspected you had some connections with ubisoft and now I know what you are capable of I'm very excited about your future plans. It's great you want to continue in an open process, but I must also warn you that working that way is also risky because you can easily end up spending precious hours of your time on the forum and lose interest before you are able to finish your mod. It should also be noted that this forum is already a very extensive information source if it comes to the question what people want. When I worked on the H5 RPE mod I read many old threads in the altar of wishes and the modders workshop to get an idea of fans wishes because there were not many people around to give constructive comments on my work. I think your highest priority should be to remove all hardcoded limitations for adding towns, creatures, classes ,skills, spells and artifacts and create the ability to import new models with animations into the game. I think the campaign and gameplay adjustments are much less important.
I think you should have a close look at the following threads and take some time to study them, these are the largest modding projects done for HOMM5 and therefore your most important predecessors:

New Creature Framework
H5 Role Playing Edition
H5 Tournament Edition
RTMG
Model editor
All campaigns for TOE
Dwellings for LVL4-7

Attempts to new towns:

New Town Framework
Tales of karador
Symbiosis faction
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siinn
siinn


Adventuring Hero
posted February 17, 2011 09:49 PM
Edited by siinn at 21:53, 17 Feb 2011.

Heroes5 powa!!

I can't believe we're still receiving gifts from Santa in the middle of february...
I can't believe such a incredible mod is coming to us...
Actualy I can't believe in Santa, I'm a bit too old now. But the facts are simple: we've got a new Heroes5 AI!!!

As a modder I've got nothing to offer, as a player you have all my gratitude, as a forumer I could try bringing to your ears what french people on the net are thinking about your mod.

For example some bugs: it looks like you've been coding from the 3.0 version of the game. Some french players have noticed that combat griffin's dive and fanatic's charge are broken with your mod.

Some improvement ideas (it's all about enhancing your mod with  mods from other great people):
- Improving Treasure hunting from Avanced AI for TOE 3.1 by magnomagus (All treasure buildings now offer 10 different battles. You will also be able to meet the new alternative upgrades in all treasure buildings. All creatures will fit in their surroundings...)
- Creating new combat arenas feeting specific places with the help of TotE 3.1 New Arenas by many talented modders

Anyway keep the good work going on!

Bravo vieux!!!

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