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| Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Public Closed Beta Impressions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 10 20 ... 29 30 31 32 33 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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aphro
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 21, 2011 02:31 PM |
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Edited by aphro at 14:41, 21 Jul 2011.
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I wanted to pre-order the game last weak because I was so excited about the beta. A friend of mine got the beta and invited me to his place to give it a try... And I didn't like it at all. We played for the last 6 days for hours.
I am sorry to say this but I am giving away HMM as my favorite game. The 6th part of this sequel feels like a dull version of its predecessors, even H4 despite the many problems it had, had more magic, fantasy and an overwhelming feeling that draws you inside the game. H6 in my opinion is too mechanical, plain and I simply don't like it. All the creatures are a blurred color piles on the battlefield (and I was playing the game on a huge screen with an insane computer), the town window compared to the glorious town screens we had is like the statistics compared to the real life, the skills are a mess and in the way spells work right now you cannot use more than one spell for a very long time (until you level up and you decide to take a new one) and you use one spell once in three-four battles because of the mana demands and the hero spell power is close to nothing. It is just boring, the heroes are simply non-present on the battlefield - it is just the very opposite direction of H4 but the mistake is in the same proportions.
About the tier levels - cores got everything - the rough power in HP, Damage and numbers AND the usefulness of the skills. In general the core part of an army is consisted by numerous soldiers with weak to medium power, than a part of it are specialists with really useful skills and more power and than you have the champions - less in numbers but with great strenght and enormous skills. IN H6 the cores have everything - the damage, the numbers, the skills - and there is nothing left for elites (rarely you will see a useful skill and they just don't survive against core creatures) and champions (strange and sometimes even funny skills with no real impact on the battle, except for the cyclops maybe).
The adventure map is empty and in several occasions I felt myself like a tourist looking to the trees and the mountains with no real idea why I am going that way - and the real reason was that I was lured by that pile of ore at the end of the road but than nothing else to do there... Once you take three mines you can build everything in your castle - the gold is produced in the city and it is never less than you need - you can even sell it on the marketplace for these insane sell ratios we have now and it is still ok.
I think that all of the new concepts could be tested in a very good way without actually programming a new code for Heroes 6. You just take Heroes 3 because it is much simpler in ideas that H4 and H5, you use the editor we have even now and change the resource demands for everything leaving only gold, wood, ore and crystals in game, change the stats of the creatures, increase to the sky the mana demands, you alter the programming code a little bit to connect the spells to be given by leveling up by some skills, create a map with the internal editor putting only 4 types of mines, block the mage guilds and than you give only one map to one hundred people for testing and see what will happen. And yes, for better effect you remove the town screens. I think you got the idea.
This could be done in a less than a week, because I remember how easily the creature stats, spells and cost of the buildings could be altered and it is even easier if you possess the actual programming code. The way the skill system exists at the moment is worse than H3. We had a very good skill system with H4 and even better one with vanilla H5 and now we have H6 system which seems so random to me and if you take out the spells it leaves you with nothing - just an example - it doesn't seem logical to me or balanced that Architect I gives you 1 skeleton AND 1 fate weaver... Or that a skill from the same row gives you 2 tiles more on the adventure map, or that another skill from the same level gives you a very expensive spell that has the same healing power like one week population of healers, or another skill from the same supposedly equal skill level that allows you to see the numbers of the stacks... Even Diablo skill system is better than this and it is considered plain and simple in terms of real RPG. While playing the beta I was spending like 10 minutes at the beginning going through all of the skills to decide where to spend the AP and every skill seemed unnecessary to me or with very wicked concept.
Actually I cannot think of even one piece I liked - the combat log is ugly and it lacks the things which I really want to know - why are suddenly there all of these numbers over the head of some stacks - later I understood that a special undead skill was triggered, or why the skeleton cripples the speed of the targets (no description about that skill but we have 3 similar skills saying that this creature is an undead creature - and even if this is corrected the way the skills are described and put in the creatures windows is silly - sometimes the same skills like all undead skills are in different order by the different undead and this only adds to the confusion you get seeing this game).
Sorry for the long post but my final conclusion is that I don't have to play this game - there is no real point in advancing your hero because it has close to none impact on the battlefield, not only at the beginning but even in the middle of the game (I only reached 15th level so it might change "later"), there is no point of building your elite or champion units, just focus on the cores and everything should be fine, there is no point to explore the adventure map because there is nothing worth on it, except the enemy town and very few special places - the rest is running around for piles of crystals, wood, ore and gold - I felt myself like playing these dumb farm games on Facebook - no real idea for doing it, just do it because it is in the game. I didn't get the feeling that something real is actually happening while I played the beta.
I kind of agree with this.
H6 graphics are only a marginal improvement over HoMM5 in terms of objective quality. However, H6 does feel quite bland in art direction and lacks the charm of HoMM5. Creatures animations, as well as the battlefield, just aren't as vivid as they are in HoMM5.
I particularly liked how Liches looked and acted in HoMM5. They looked evil and menacing, yet calm and composed with their upright and arrogant posture wearing their regal attire. I loved their wicked and sly facial expression when blasting foes with their death beams or when casting yet another sinister spell. They were characterised as they should be: masters of the undead, as their arrogant postures and folded arms, among other things, made it seem convincingly so.
But in H6, Liches just look evil, and a little demented, but nothing more. They feel very one dimensional with little sense of concept or art direction. The same can be said with alot of the other creatures in H6.
HoMM5 really progressed the series, in terms of presentation. The town screens that were rendered in full 3D were a marvelous sight to behold. It showed off the glory of your kingdom and made you felt that the creatures of your army belonged to a majestic kingdom. I am just baffled about the decision of replacing that with cheap 'town windows' in H6. While it works, it just doesn't capture the essence of HoMM. This decision seems like a backward step for the series.
Presentation-wise, H6 looks no better than many of the cheap MMO's out there. Gameplay-wise, Blackhole seems to have taken alot of shortcuts as well, the new necromancy system is an example.
I know it's beta, but with only a month left, and so many bugs to iron out before the game is to be finalised for publication, development resources would most likely be invested in fixing many of the critical bugs rather than make the game more visually presentable. So what everyone will be getting in September is most likely a less bug ridden and more balanced version of what we've already seen.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 21, 2011 03:10 PM |
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@ aphro
I dont understand why people cling on simple issues such as one creature. All creatures in H5 were cartoony,did that make them more enjoyable? Not really.
Same for H6,looks are irrelevant as long as they dont look as ridiculous as H5 peasants.
I wonder why did they take so many shortcuts?I mean,if the game is supposed to be more combat based,why do we have so many crappy abilities?I did expect more abilities for creatures.
H5 was crappy at first aswell,so no improvement on this sector.
The reason the game feels less polished is because of town screens.Obviously,taking one "Feature" and adding nothing as a compensation will hurt the game.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 03:19 PM |
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lacks the charm of HoMM5
You gotta be kidding ! H5 is the ugliest game of the whole serie and if there's one game that is bland and is missing any "graphical" charm, it's definately H5 
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aphro
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 21, 2011 03:28 PM |
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Edited by aphro at 15:40, 21 Jul 2011.
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@ aphro
I dont understand why people cling on simple issues such as one creature. All creatures in H5 were cartoony,did that make them more enjoyable? Not really.
Same for H6,looks are irrelevant as long as they dont look as ridiculous as H5 peasants.
I wonder why did they take so many shortcuts?I mean,if the game is supposed to be more combat based,why do we have so many crappy abilities?I did expect more abilities for creatures.
H5 was crappy at first aswell,so no improvement on this sector.
The reason the game feels less polished is because of town screens.Obviously,taking one "Feature" and adding nothing as a compensation will hurt the game.
The one creature I gave was just an example. There's a difference between being simply 'cartoony', and having a special charm that brings out the uniqueness of the creatures and makes them likeable. Yes, HoMM5 may appear as a bit 'cartoony' but it does it in a way that gives character.
There's nothing wrong with a mature theme. If you had the impression I was against a mature theme, then you've jumped to conclusions too quickly. The problem I see with H6 is that there is a general lack of vividness in the art direction. Creatures don't seem to have a sense of purpose. They seem mechanical and dead.
Beyond that, the interface also feels like that of a poorly made MMORPG.
Even though HoMM5 did not have much content at first instance, it was far better presented and it didn't seem like a budget title.
Although I cannot say too much about the gameplay aspect as of yet because I haven't tested many strategies.
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aphro
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 21, 2011 03:30 PM |
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Quote:
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lacks the charm of HoMM5
You gotta be kidding ! H5 is the ugliest game of the whole serie and if there's one game that is bland and is missing any "graphical" charm, it's definately H5
That's just a matter of opinion.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 04:19 PM |
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Art is always a matter of opinion. There are people who think the artstyle of H6 is the same as H5 so yeah, it's very very subjective.
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aphro
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 21, 2011 04:36 PM |
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Edited by aphro at 16:37, 21 Jul 2011.
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Though some people may say H6 and HoMM5 have the same 'art style', I think they are just using the term loosely and equating 'art style' with graphics style.
Although it may be true some people are not looking past the 3D animated aspect of the graphics and equating the two forms of art styles on that basis. But that's almost like saying Pokemon has the same 'art style' as Naruto since they are both anime.
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 04:54 PM |
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That's what I thought too, but no they insist both games have the same art style.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 21, 2011 05:09 PM |
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Both art styles look stupid and largely offend the common sense so yeah, they are the same. 
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 05:44 PM |
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Well, then it's not just 5 and 6, 3 and 4 got a share of stupid art too.
Don't know about 1 and 2 as I've never played them.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 05:46 PM |
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Fun:
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted July 21, 2011 05:55 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
lacks the charm of HoMM5
You gotta be kidding ! H5 is the ugliest game of the whole serie and if there's one game that is bland and is missing any "graphical" charm, it's definately H5
H5 uglier than H4? Give me a break.
I think the landscapes of H6 are amazing, but I'm not sure I find the creatures and towns to really work within the context of the landscapes - in fact, I found H5 pretty coherent in this area; it might be too cartoony in some ways, and it might have some ugly units, but I think it captured the fantasy/fairytale atmosphere quite well.
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What will happen now?
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 06:04 PM |
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H5 uglier than H4? Give me a break.
Definately ! H5 graphics were insipid and it felt like the game was a "washed" version of the previous games. Most creatures were too bulky and sometimes even plain ridiculous.
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KingImp
Famous Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 06:10 PM |
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I don't know if this is a bug or if it is an intended feature, but when you place an Infernal Gate in front of a shooter shouldn't it technically block them from shooting?
I mean, it is obviously a physical object on the battlefield since the melee units target it, so it should be an obstacle that shooters can't shoot around.
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aphro
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 21, 2011 06:32 PM |
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H6 seems to have the goal of trying to make everything look 'awesome'. But I don't think that concept fits well into HoMM where creatures are divided up into tiers.
Peasants may look ridiculous and stupid in HoMM5, but the depiction embodies what peasants really are and accurately portrays their position. They're the lowliest within the social ranks and weakest units in your army. It would actually be silly if they were well-equipped and looked as glorious Paladins. Likewise, goblins are depicted to be weak and cowardly which reflects their in-game nature. Skeletons look very rag-tag, gremlins look really fragile, and so on, because it reflects what they are.
Just looking through the official H6 website, it is actually fairly difficult to pick out which creatures are in what tier position since they all look quite formidable. Before I played the beta, I thought Maniacs were the in the upper tier of Inferno from looking through the website but they turned out to be in the core tier of the army.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 21, 2011 06:56 PM |
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@KingImp
Why? Afaik rockwalls do not block shooters either.
Quote:
Peasants may look ridiculous and stupid in HoMM5, but the depiction embodies what peasants really are and accurately portrays their position.
A fat man watcing tv while his wife tends to the household chores?  Because he looks the type more than what you say.
Anyway I don't so much get your talk of awesome. In that do current skeletons look a higher tier than H3 skeleton warriors? Do ghouls look.. awesome? Or goblins a formidable force? Do hellhounds look more powerful than they used to in previous incarnations? I don't think so.
If anything it is H5 that tried to look awesome with silly anime designs like the archangel, testosterone-overkill titans and the like.In comparison H6 is better proportioned and more realistic yet neither is close to the H2 or H3 designs that we grew to love.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 07:00 PM |
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I don't know if this is a bug or if it is an intended feature, but when you place an Infernal Gate in front of a shooter shouldn't it technically block them from shooting?
I mean, it is obviously a physical object on the battlefield since the melee units target it, so it should be an obstacle that shooters can't shoot around.
It never blocked them and it shouldn't. The phased unit will block them though 
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted July 21, 2011 07:22 PM |
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It would be silly if shooters could be blocked by this as they only go once per round (unless morale and other things permit)....
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aphro
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 21, 2011 07:45 PM |
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Quote:
@KingImp
Why? Afaik rockwalls do not block shooters either.
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Peasants may look ridiculous and stupid in HoMM5, but the depiction embodies what peasants really are and accurately portrays their position.
A fat man watcing tv while his wife tends to the household chores? Because he looks the type more than what you say.
Anyway I don't so much get your talk of awesome. In that do current skeletons look a higher tier than H3 skeleton warriors? Do ghouls look.. awesome? Or goblins a formidable force? Do hellhounds look more powerful than they used to in previous incarnations? I don't think so.
If anything it is H5 that tried to look awesome with silly anime designs like the archangel, testosterone-overkill titans and the like.In comparison H6 is better proportioned and more realistic yet neither is close to the H2 or H3 designs that we grew to love.
Actually I was being HoMM5 specific.
I think the artwork of hellhounds/cereberi in HoMM5 does capture their aggressive and fast yet fragile nature. Their depiction in H6 make them seem far more powerful than a core tier creature.
In H6, Skeletons do look a bit over-equipped for their tier and look very fierce. Goblins and Ghouls also seem quite fierce and intent on tearing apart anything that moves. And that's my main gripe with H6 artwork. Everything is just generically made to look lean and mean.
I did think the Titan was a bit of the Swarchenegger archetype, but hey it's a level 7, it deserves that kind of status. I don't see the resemblence of Archangels to any anime reference. To me, they don't seem to stray far from the typical angel design.
In contrast I would say the proportions are much better done in HoMM5. It's easier to separate creatures into tiers just by looking at them.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted July 21, 2011 07:53 PM |
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Well, I'm pretty positive about the patch 1.2 now. Chaining is still possible and useful! You can have four heroes for 0 + 2000 + 2500 + 3000 = 7500 gold. This is exactly the price of three additional heroes in H3 (2500 * 3 = 7500)! Good job Black Hole 
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