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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Heroes 4 Modding Revisited
Thread: Heroes 4 Modding Revisited This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Hired Hero
posted September 26, 2016 12:31 AM

Nimostar, I believe Namerutan_ has sent you a pm here, so check your messages

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Baronus
Baronus


Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2016 08:40 AM

Creature portal editing.
Portal is on adress
0x57e078 hdeditor
+ 4.......... for Hiew32 or IdaPro
eg. 97e078
2200000033
22 leprechaun
37 satyr
00 air elemental
16 fire elemental
12 earth elemental
3e water elemental
42 waspwort
24 mantis
But its not recomended using it. AI cant use it so its cheat.
PS. Try to not discuss in this topic its modding guide only. It will be hard find anything here if it will be 500 posts about other things.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 27, 2016 04:30 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:25, 27 Sep 2016.

Thank you for the notes, in this way I was also able to find necromancy creatures (although not tested changes yet)

_____

Oh, it is not because of modding. As I suspected and have just tested:

THE AI NEVER USES CREATURE PORTAL
Not even on the original game.

This was a game where town portal was the only recruiting structure. lots of gold. AI Never recruited a single leprechaun in over a month.


Why does it not know? Maybe...
- Creature Portal isn't a normal dwelling nor has a level
- Choose between many different creatures
- "Growth" is given by experience per day, not static number

In any case:
That's too bad. Otherwise it could have functioned as an entirely new AI faction.

Alas in any case we have known for a long time H4 was a rushed game and the AI simply sucks. It doesn't do basic things like how to pick up artifacts or capture mines normally, why would it know to use Creature Portal? : P Expansions were only mostly cash grab...

In other words, mod the creatures without guilt, since Creature Portals were always "Human players only" xd

Anyways... in any case this allows us, by getting rid of elementals there, to for example theoretically make a separate elemental faction and whatnot. I would call it the "Conflux"; very original, eh? : P - and with normal dwellings, the AI could play it, just as it plays my modified factions well mostly (but I always give it flagged mines or it is too slow and bad at trade, lol).
But seriously, it does have a lot of possibilities, even if the portal itself is just for people. Think putting the whole Inferno faction on the portal and calling it a "Demonic Portal" (or a "Kreegan Gate") for example

__________________________________

PS: I have tested the necromancy and it doesn't work at least changing the creatures. Everything is necromanced just as before the changes. Still have the problem with my lvl 1 ghost even as I have taken them out of their necromancy position. And all other changes also ineffectual.

I tried to see if I was actually changing Undead Transformer but nope. THat is also still the same.

Can anyone confirm, and/or search for other adresses for necro and/or transformer creatures?

(I changed both Equilibris and Default adresses given by Baronus)
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 27, 2016 06:33 PM
Edited by NimoStar at 18:34, 27 Sep 2016.

I had seen as like Baronus had written on this thread after me, but I see not post now... strange, forum bug?

________________________________

More discoveries about Creature Portal:

For some reason, even if you remove waspworts from the lineup, you can still recruit them by default.
Default creature must be coded somewhere else.

If you change the waspwort (click on any other creature), it will never be available again though.


Notice how you can recruit them although they don't appear on the portraits.

Another thing:

Even if the actual player AI never uses creature portal,
neutral AI somehow does.
This probably has to do with the fact neutral AI doesn't pay for the creatures, although I don't know the specific mechanism. But it even got the waspworts and three types of elementals (the latter in great quantity)


Siege to neutral castle with Summoning Portal pre-built and no other dwellings. This is after 36 months xd
Player AI castle had not recruited a single creature with the portal in this time.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Hired Hero
posted September 28, 2016 05:11 AM

NimoStar said:
I had seen as like Baronus had written on this thread after me, but I see not post now... strange, forum bug?


I saw it, too and thought it was a bug, but if you look at his last post on the previous page, he edited it to respond to your Necromancy issue (changing what gets raised).

Apparently edits show up as new posts!

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 28, 2016 08:28 PM

Thank you iliveinabox. If you woudn't tell me I would have never seen it.
(Just as I never noticed the H4.dll file and the fact it came with equi!)
Strange, I know of no other forum that works like that.

That's also why I think making new replies to notify people is important :v

Nice info, will give a look at that file shortly.
(although now I lament not having known of 3.55 when i started my mod)
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Known Hero
posted September 28, 2016 10:07 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 20:11, 01 Oct 2016.

If it's any comfort v.3.55 is a beta version, and to my Knowledge not as widely known as v.3.51.
I'm just taking the liberty some gather up some of your modding treads/topics in the tread, NimoStar. It's nice to have it all in one place, although it may be about different kind of moddings.
Here NimoStar's tutorial on how to make 'Creature Heroes'

Edit:NimoStar, here's a script on how to get the AI to use the Creature Portal, haven't succesfully tested this myself, though.
AI use Creature Portal

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nostradamus
nostradamus


Adventuring Hero
posted October 01, 2016 08:34 PM

Nimo,can you add old man with a stick and red monster from cheat codes as new hero and creature,I would like to see them in your new greatest release.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 02, 2016 07:27 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 07:38, 02 Oct 2016.

AI use of town portal seems like a nice enough option I will make sure to try it.

Also I am currently making an account on the Equilibris forum.

As of the version, I lament that because of the older version now I have to migrate all my code or keep the obsolete one. I have not yet decided. 3.55 was not linked in the download page of official equilibris, not even as alpha :/
Are there any known bugs there which were not present in 3.51 ?

Nostradamus, I am currently experimenting with the making/replacing of creatures. Probably i will release the Alpha conflux version before compiling the next full Greatest release (even as the latter is easier, making the Conflux is more fun). Red monster will probably be there, but I can't promise it will not be somewhat coarse on the animation department : P

By doing this experimentation, I also found an unused in the game "generic ship" file. You cannot place it on the editor and it is never invoked by the game code.
A shame, because it's probably better animated than any of the others. Sails are smooth and bolge nicely when navigating. My guess is that this was made based on the H3 ship before deciding to separate in six different ones. But one can rename the .spr file and use it as a custom hero or to replace something else. With the proper code and an icon it could be re-enabled for the game.
(ships.generic.spr)



PS: Now someone will tell me everyone knew of the ship from before except me and that there were easier ways to get it?
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Known Hero
posted October 02, 2016 09:54 AM
Edited by Karmakeld at 13:54, 02 Oct 2016.

Very nice with the Ship.
There are plenty of other unused Objects, and I wonder if you able to 'recover' the rest?
They can be found at Tools->Customize->Object Palette, select a group to get the full list.
I'll post some, but in the editor they only appear as Square with the text 'Delete Me Now'
There are lots of them, but I think you'll have to manually go through them - I can't remember if anyone ever listed all (quick search on CH, came up with nothing).
I've mailed them to you, NimoStar, was faster than listing all.
I also noticed that, like Nimo wrote, you can't drag the generic.ship into the editor. The same goes for the Expansion heroes and Tombstone. So if you could turn the ship into a hero, how about the Tombstone

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 03, 2016 02:56 AM

I already made a green-glowing hybrid Lich creature (tested anim as hero) which looks like a Death Tombstone, when standing still at the very least ... so it seems we are on the same syntony
(only one thing: The tombstone seems to "float" when selected for some reason)
There are also two "graveyard" filess, which I assume to be the treasure piles, which can converted into adventure monsters or heroes (D&D mimic? lol. It's a trap!)



Not only that, but I discovered the way to only manipulate .spr files...  and not .df2 files to add missing anims. Now we are free of having to add bulky files! Each .spr file is just a few Kb ... soon I will release the tutorial for everyone... once you know, it's very easy.

Also, I had already found many of those objects... but it's not easy to bring them back (there are many unused artifacts on the artifact table too... seems A LOT of epic assembly artifacts were planned. Heroes IV was released as a VERY cut game)
The problem is that unlike the ship, they probably lack some relevant codes. I have created problems in my Map Editor by having some of them in my palettes (that's why "delete me now", i guess)
I think you can actually give them pictures (copied from other map objects) without much problem. The problem would be to give them a functionality.
There is also a giant "delete me now" Outpost town. This was intended for Outposts functionality which was cut from the game in Beta (I guess they were to work like forts in H6 or something, or a town which can be converted to others).

Also, there's an even bigger "Delete me now" object called "Magic Lamp". This object is big... like a whole screen of big. It is also empty inside (Just an outline of red, not all the middle)
This object is special because there seems actually to be (full?) code for it. The Magic Lamp is listed alongside the other creature tresures (like Ruins, Dwarven Mines and Dragon Utopia) and you can configure it.
It was supposed to be somewhere to fight genies for treasure.
The problem is: There is no yellow tile entrance, so even replacing the graphic, there will be no way to trigger it.

I think Equilibris team would have an answer to that, because they have made new functional map objects. I will try to post in their forum about this topic.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Known Hero
posted October 03, 2016 05:28 PM

Well it seems someone from the Equilibris team managed to add the functionality, if you recall the wagon quest hut. It was in the game, but had no function untill Equilibris.
I noticed you can change owner of the Outpost, but that's it. Also the Gnolls Hut is working, but it's called long house and indeed works as the berserker dwelling. But I follow your progress with great interest.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 04, 2016 08:44 AM

As I think, Equilibris didn't actually make that wagon work, but made a graphical copy of it that worked.

We should mage a whole list of objects that don't work and their names in the editor.

I propose the next categories for listing:

["0" would be objects that work ingame and are placeable and customizable and are in the editor]

1- Objects that are placeable and "work" as intended, but aren't included in the editor normally (random tome, grey postion of immortality, alternate gate, Hexis's castle, cave walls, arrows, hut wagon, etc.)

2- Objects that work ingame, and you can place but not customize (treasure piles... otherwise you should be able to place artifacts on them)

3- Objects that work ingame but are not placeable (tombstones for example... imagine being able to place dead heroes that people have to pick up and resurrect as part of the mission? Or even in multiplayer maps, each player has a dead hero in middle of map. And others will try to get their own and patrol the area to prevent the enemy from getting his! Also intercept his armies with tombs. Very tactical)

4- Objects that should be able to be used ingame but aren't, and aren't placeable either (the Generic Ship would be this)

5- Objects that are placeable but don't work ingame as intended (the wagon hut would be this)

6- Objects that lack parts to even be considered as such (all "Delete me Now!" and similar imageless objects). For example: Boots of Levitation, rangers moccasins. This sixth category can be further subdivided, but for the non-testing user it's enough.

So if we list stuff we find, we separate them into this categories, or we say:

- ships.generic -> 3
- artifacts.boots.boots of levitation -> 6
- artifacts.boots.hiking boots -> 6
- artifacts.boots.rangers moccasins -> 6
- artifacts.boots.helm_padded -> 6
- artifacts.miscellaneous.arms of legion -> 6
- artifacts.miscellaneous.head of legion -> 6
- artifacts.miscellaneous.legs of legion -> 6
- artifacts.miscellaneous.torso of legion -> 6
- artifacts.miscellaneous.statue of legion -> 6
- artifacts.miscellaneous.victor... -> 6
- artifacts.random artifacts.tome -> 1
- artifacts.tomes-books-manuals.parchment lvl... -> 6
- artifacts.tomes-books-manuals.scroll lvl...(1) -> 6
- artifacts.tomes-books-manuals.scroll lvl...(2) -> 6
- artifacts.tomes-books-manuals.scroll lvl...(3) -> 6
- artifacts.weapons.Blow Gun -> 6

- borderguard-bordergate.b Guard Orange Ward... -> 6
Probably there is one of these for every color/type, I checked purple and so it is. There is no "evil" version, just as there is no "evil" version of the Water border guards, so it was possibly a water gate.

- Creature bank.magic lamp -> 6

I know, very complicated : P if anyone simply wants to list the objects to fix by their map editor list name and nothing else, then just do that. But description is better so modders like me know what they can/must fix and make that objects work in the future.

Also, I checked the Outpost with player ingame and it does reveal a part of the map.
I guess if you want something very vanguard art... there's a use to it : P (though most of what it reveals is inside of it's "box" even as it respects to ingame passability)
Also, a giant cubelike object that begs for you to destroy it immediately is sort of poetic (and depressive (?)). Conceivably a map trigger with dynamite can be set to fulfill it's wishes?

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Namerutan_
Namerutan_

Tavern Dweller
posted October 04, 2016 10:07 AM
Edited by Namerutan_ at 10:14, 04 Oct 2016.

NimoStar said:
We should mage a whole list of objects that don't work and their names in the editor.


To make that list you need to know something about .h4r packages.

There are some "fake" entries in the table of contents, to allow using "aliases" for some file names.

In first versions of the game, a file could be named as "adv_object.artifacts.random artifacts.Random Tome.h4d", but later renamed to "adv_object.artifacts.random artifact.Tome.h4d".
To allow game maps/campaigns to keep working if pointing to the "old" names, there is a mechanism of redirection:
Both filenames will be found inside the .h4r package, but just one of them contains actual data, while the other one is just a link redirecting to the new filename.

Some tools to extract files do not handle that redirection, so you get empty files (zero bytes length) or corrupted data.

This mechanism is not in conflict with the use of several copies of the same file for different versions (expansions), for example tables for creatures stats. If you use the .exe for the standard game, the file inside heroes4.h4r will be used, while if you use the Winds of War .exe it will be used a replacement from the expansion .h4r packages.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 04, 2016 11:21 AM

Actually I had noticed something to that effect, although not as detailed as you have posted.

I will contribute the info about what I noted:

The names on the list of objects from the Editor are not the same as the name of those same objects when you click "properties" on them. (it displays on the top of the window)

In fact, most of the "bug"/missing artifacts have no "properties" adress at all! So you click them and it just says "Properties for "

In other cases, the name displays, but it's not always the same as the name on the palette from which you added it.

So you think the name in the properties may be the actual "redirected" name?
And thus explain why some of them are empty: The file to which the "fake name" redirects is not included in the .h4r file.
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Namerutan_
Namerutan_

Tavern Dweller
posted October 04, 2016 04:27 PM
Edited by Namerutan_ at 16:31, 04 Oct 2016.

NimoStar said:
So you think the name in the properties may be the actual "redirected" name?


No, these are different things. I will give an example.
Check the file "table.adventure object.h4d" (maybe you see it as ".txt", depending on the tool used to extract it). For each entry, there are several fields:
- Major Type
- Minor Type
- Subtype
- Keyword
- Text

So every text about adventure objects can be searched here. For example, "pirate_islands" has 7 entries (Keyword -> Text):
- "help" = "These islands are a common hideout for pirates and their buried treasure."
- "help_visited" = "These islands are home to %creatures watching over their buried treasure."
- "help_empty" = "You can see the holes on the beach from here.  Somebody already dug up all the buried treasure."
- "name" = "Pirate Islands"
- "Initial" = "The gleam of treasure attracts you to these uncharted islands, but as you approach your realize the sun also glitters off the blades of many swords.   Are you willing to fight %the_creatures who guard these islands?"
- "defeat" = "Using a map found on one of the dead, you dig up several treasure chests and find %reward_list."
- "empty" = "Rusty swords, bleached skeletons, and broken chests reveal that someone has already stolen the treasure from this island."

That entry "name" is what you can see in properties.


About redirection links: open "heroes4.h4r" package with any hex editor. Search for "adv_object.artifacts.Helms.Helm_Mind Shield.h4d" (without quotes). You will notice another string near: "adv_object.artifacts.Helms.Mind Shield.h4d". That second string corresponds to another entry in the same package "heroes.h4r". The first name corresponds to a "fake" entry, redirecting to the other one.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Known Hero
posted October 04, 2016 05:14 PM

NimoStar said:
..(tombstones for example... imagine being able to place dead heroes that people have to pick up and resurrect as part of the mission? Or even in multiplayer maps, each player has a dead hero in middle of map. And others will try to get their own and patrol the area to prevent the enemy from getting his! Also intercept his armies with tombs. Very tactical)



I'll have to check, but I'm quite sure you could simply do this with the proper script. The trick is ofcourse to not have the player lose the battle via triggered battle, but to trigger a battle on a non player hero and then change color upon defeat. I believe I tested this to work a while back, and player won't be shown starting position. But the idea is good and opens up for interesting gameplay, like you suggest. You can also capture towns with dead heroes.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 04, 2016 11:09 PM

Yes, I have seen many misnamed entries, but most of them were misnamed duplicated of buildings and were full files rather than a redirect (it seems NWC didn't even know the name of their own buildings... this is also why creature portal animation did not work and I have corrected it)

Wow, I had never seen such table.
I guess it is because on my spanish version, it would be found on the Tex.h4r resource rarther than on the normal one; as such it didn't get extracted by my program.
(My version's "text.h4r" includes almost all localization and is over 130 Mb!)


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Namerutan_
Namerutan_

Tavern Dweller
posted October 05, 2016 02:07 AM

NimoStar said:
Wow, I had never seen such table.
I guess it is because on my spanish version, it would be found on the Tex.h4r


It is in Text.h4r package for any language. From my spanish installment (I'm from Spain):

"pirate_islands" has 7 entries (Keyword -> Text):
- "help" = "Estas islas son un refugio habitual para piratas y sus tesoros enterrados."
- "help_visited" = "Estas islas son el hogar de %creatures que vigilan su tesoro enterrado."
- "help_empty" = "Desde aquí puedes ver los agujeros en la playa. Alguien ya ha desenterrado todo el tesoro."
- "name" = "Islas piratas"
- "Initial" = "El brillo del tesoro te atrae a estas islas ignotas, pero cuando te aproximas comprendes que el sol también hace relumbrar las hojas de muchas espadas.  Quién vigila estas islas son %the_creatures ¿Quieres luchar?"
- "defeat" = "Usando un mapa encontrado en uno de los cadáveres desentierras varios cofres de tesoro y encuentras %reward_list."
- "empty" = "Espadas herrumbrosas, esqueletos blanquecinos y cofres rotos indican que alguien ya ha robado el tesoro de esta isla."

That entry "name" is what you can see in properties, so if I use my spanish version, it is "Islas piratas", instead of "Pirate Islands".


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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Known Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 05, 2016 05:34 AM

Then we have the same version (although normally I only had the Engliush version, and downloaded the Spanish one to introduce people who can't understand English)

In any case, what I meant was that I hadn't extracted the text.h4r files because of my conception they would only be useful for localization/translation (far too early to do that for my mod) and nothing else. But I see there was other uses such as learning how adventure objects work more detailedly (?). Thank you for your explanation.
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