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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: Heroes 4 Modding Revisited
Thread: Heroes 4 Modding Revisited This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT»
Nimostar
Nimostar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 19, 2016 05:39 PM

well you mostly are closer yo understand it, but there is one big "but":
changiang type or appearance of ONE (or more) objects in the. map in the way i proposed would not change ALL instances of that object, just that one. you could easily have the tree of kknowledge level-up and the tree of knowledge quest hut in the same map by string editing the map/object (aka not really a mod), the thing you cant do is fusing them both into one and the single thing (neiher graphically not otherwise).That means you can also have a decorative flame of chaos and an artifact one, though in most situations such things would probaly confuse the players. A flame of chaos column, if a single object, wpuld also be a mod (a new graphic rather than two old objects). I hope that best clears it up.
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted October 21, 2016 05:48 PM

Yes thank you.
I don't have a lot of time to play around at the moment, but when I do, I will try to string change the Tree of Knowledge into a quest hut and share my results. The same goes with the Flame of Chaos.
The Column will hopefully follow later on.

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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Adventuring Hero
posted October 21, 2016 05:56 PM

If you try to change the object type by hex editing a .h4c file, use a single scenario map, rather than a campaign, because the campaign maps actually keep track of the number of bytes for each map.

So, if you edit the type on an object in a campaign map, you will change the number of bytes for that map and the editor / game will crash when trying to read it.

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 21, 2016 10:17 PM

We can still edit Campaign Maps because of the import/export feature...

Export campaign map, Hex Edit the changes, then import to campaign.

Or simply, make scenario, hex edit, then import.

The only bad thing is that we don't get nice world-maps and choosable bonuses like in H3 (the bonuses choice can be scripted, though)
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iliveinabox05
iliveinabox05


Adventuring Hero
posted October 21, 2016 10:24 PM

You're still technically editing the single scenario but yes, that is a workaround

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted October 26, 2016 06:02 PM

NimoStar, I tried to make the Quest Hut Tree of Knowledge, but I guess that is still a bit too advanced for me
I tried to extract the Tree of Knowledge from different programs. Depending on the program it has different file names, but it seems you can rename them as desired, giving same result. I managed to make it appear in the editor list as Seer's Hut Tree of Knowledge, but it still has it's old abilities. So do I need to change some code using hex editor, like you displayed some posts back?
I can view the change in the editor by naming it .h4d and place it in Data folder.
I tried creating a mod.h4r file using the ResEdit2, but once i create a new file and try to insert the file, I can't see it. No matter if it's .h4d, OBJ or ADV_OBJECT.
Could you make a tutorial for this? I asume changing an artifact to an object would be the same procedure..

I'll have to try the hero creature modding, for now I guess, until I get a better understanding of the various modding tools.

Thanks in advance..

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Namerutan
Namerutan

Tavern Dweller
posted October 27, 2016 04:39 AM
Edited by Namerutan at 06:40, 27 Oct 2016.

Karmakeld said:
NimoStar, I tried to make the Quest Hut Tree of Knowledge, but I guess that is still a bit too advanced for me
(...)
until I get a better understanding of the various modding tools.
Thanks in advance..


We need some more time, but as a teaser to keep your temper, here is your desired QuestHut:
Teaser_NewQuestHuts

Open the provided map in the editor, then drag and drop the new "quest hut" to the palette, so you can use it on any map. You can set scripts like with any other quest hut. Remember the map will not work if the player's computer cannot find the .h4d file. Also keep in mind that this is just a test, and surely the files will be a bit different when we finish the projected tasks.

Note: Thanks to Vokial and Valeriy, I have recovered my account, so you should resend me to this account ("Namerutan") any message you were sent me to the temporary account ("Namerutan_").
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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted October 27, 2016 05:16 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 05:19, 27 Oct 2016.

Quote:
I tried creating a mod.h4r file using the ResEdit2, but once i create a new file and try to insert the file, I can't see it. No matter if it's .h4d, OBJ or ADV_OBJECT.


Not seeing it inside while building is a common bug in the prgram. You build it anyways as I instructed. The file will be there, and it will work. I can attest to that because that's the way I did all the versions of my mod.

Quote:
Could you make a tutorial for this? I asume changing an artifact to an object would be the same procedure..


Unfortunately I'm a bit cluttered on work to do a full tutorial... but I will tell you some things here:

- The method I posited wasn't editing the object files, (although that could be done), but hex editing the map files.

- Editing the object files is possible too, as it was as Equilibris did it. But we haven't examined closely HOW they did it.

My guess is that to edit the object files, you have to edit an "object type" WITHIN the file. This is hex eediting, even if the object type is stated in plain text (it may be a Hex number instead, I haven't checked yet).
More likely, the object is a sort of layer file with a particular structure and a number of frames (actually, an object file is practically all "image", that is , the view and animation of the map object... the code is just a reference)
As for that, in the future, Namerutan's tool may work for this. I will try to help in this endeavor.

The actual uses of the object are classes in the .exe - the object file just "lists" the type of object, it doesn't actually contain any other information rather than the footprint, types and image/animation.

I don't know if the number of hex values in the object file is "counted": if it is, it may be harder to edit. If it isn't, it is open and easy. Other members of the equi team may have answers to this.


* * *

As for editing the map directly, we know that it is possible, the number of hexes aren't counted, so we can change object types. That, and compatibility, is why I reccomend changing objects within a map file, rather than adding them as modded files (as long as existing images is what you want, like Tree of Knowledge)

Modded files will rather become more useful in the case of new images used (Eg. Equi quest huts).
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iLiVeInAbOx05
iLiVeInAbOx05


Adventuring Hero
posted October 27, 2016 04:41 PM

I've been doing some tests for changing the "type" of an object in .h4c files and unfortunately, it doesn't work.

I tried changing an order magic shrine into a quest hut, and no combination of major / minor / sub type changes had any effect (except to cause the editor to give an error message and restore the object defaults, or just plain crash).

There still needs to be a backing .h4d file for the object which contains the matching properties for the type of the object.

Namerutan has found a relatively simple way to do this by copying and editing a .h4d file (as he posted above), but this isn't currently automated.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted October 27, 2016 11:21 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 23:23, 27 Oct 2016.

Namerutan, I can't wait to get in front of my PC and have a look
I'll try to keep my patience. Hopefully your tool will be automated so it'll be easier for noobs like me, to also edit/add objects. I was just hoping to learn some basics in the meantime.

Nimo, I tried to follow your steps regarding the spr files, but one file couldn't be read and I couldn't insert the edited heroes.tables.txt file. In general things are messing with me. I installed 3.55 saw the Russian text, 'panicked' and uninstalled it, only to realize it had overwritten the Equilibris editor. So now I lacked files to open my own campaign maps. After several install/uninstalls I got it working again. I copied your greatest mod files and launched your version of the editor. The first I couldn't open, the other worked and I could view some of the 3.55 objects. That is until I pressed a certain palette menu, then it stopped working, and gives an error message everytime I try to open it afterward (along the lines of 'an issue occurred and windows can't open the program').
(deep sigh). I'll give the creature hero another try after the weekend and post my steps in case I fail again.
In any case hex editing is not something I'm gonna explore yet. I'll wait patiently for more news from Namerutan.

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted November 06, 2016 04:22 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 16:51, 06 Nov 2016.

@NimoStar, a while back you asked for a list of modifications I was planning one using in my campaign. You've already proved that a lot of them can be done and I also got a few idea from Equi 3.55, so here goes:

I'd like to change several objects into Quest Huts, as that would fit my story. Currently I have to block some of the objects and use placed events to simulate the Quest Huts, and a placed sign for Quest Log. A lot of work-around's have made it work, but being able to use real Quest Huts would be preferable.
I could use Quest Huts with the design of the following objects: (dying) Tree's of Knowledge, Magic Wells, Trading Post, certain creatures, Abandoned Alchemist's Lab, Prisons, certain 'evil' trees and more.

I'm considering using your Hero Creatures for some of my story related characters. F.x. you get the choice between 5 different types of undead characters. You could become a skeleton, zombie, ghost, vampire or necromancer. Adding matching 'skins' to each type, would add an extra touch to it. I'm also gonna introduce Gauldoth's servant Mardor, whom it would also be nice to represent as a ghost. Other characters would likely be pirates and mumies.

If possible it would fit one of my maps to change the color of the template ring of certain creatures, to represent the faction of Swamp Elves (a mix of nature/chaos).

I wish to combine/alter existing objects to create new ones. As discussed, many can already be combined, but not all. I would make columns with a fire on top, walls with fire on the side, objects to make a torture chamber, ghost chickens, zombie reindeer, mirrored objects etc.

Portals with the looks of Farm Houses. Maybe even crack holes.
I have many ideas that would make a lot of my ideas a bit easier to accomplish.

2 new artifacts, but these would be pure graphical only, as they are only important story wise, and only need to be categorized as artifacts, in order to be given in an event.
---
EDIT:
NimoStar said:


Karmakeld, in other thread you said you were having problems with resedit2. I don't see a post detailing your problems, but building the .h4r file with the Hero Table should be pretty easy.

- Launch resedit2 as admin (I don't use compatibility on it)
- File -> create new resource
- File -> open resource (open the one you just created)
-- File is empty.
- Edit -> File Manager
-- A menu will display to the right
- Search and double click your edited table.heroes.txt file
- Now click on the "make chenge" button (right by the percentile bar)
-- Your file is built.
- Close resedit2 and place/rename your new file in the Heroes data folder (normally you have to name it new.h4r, depending on your version... new_mod.h4r for Equilibris, and nim_mod.h4r for Greatest Mod 0.10)

I hope this guide was good enough to solve your issue.


I've just tried packing the tables.heroes.txt file into a h4r file, following you guide and I believe I've found the reason for my error message. When I open the new tables.txt file, I can see it lacks all of the special symbols. I used TextEdit which was also included in your mod package. Guess that makes it kinda impossible for me to make my own changes

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 06, 2016 07:54 PM

The changing object types is still being researched as how to automate it, in the near future I might post a tutorial to do it with hex edit to a map file, but you don't like hex editing

Quote:
I've just tried packing the tables.heroes.txt file into a h4r file, following you guide and I believe I've found the reason for my error message. When I open the new tables.txt file, I can see it lacks all of the special symbols. I used TextEdit which was also included in your mod package. Guess that makes it kinda impossible for me to make my own changes


That happens when you open with notepad and resave actually... you probably tried to do it before.

Get again the original tables.heroes.txt downloading the hero creature package, or extract one from my mod (or any version, depending on which you prefer to use as base)

Then use ONLY textedit, preferrably save as separate copy in another location. I use textedit to edit tables, as you can see in my mod, it works.
You can also edit them with Heroes Resource Extractor (it's one of the included plugins)
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted November 07, 2016 01:05 PM
Edited by Karmakeld at 13:09, 07 Nov 2016.

NimoStar said:
The changing object types is still being researched as how to automate it, in the near future I might post a tutorial to do it with hex edit to a map file, but you don't like hex editing


Well I'm not familiar with hex editing, as I've never tried it, so I can't say I don't like it. Time will tell. Ofcourse an automated process would be preferable, also because it would allow more people to easily add objects without having knowledge about hex editing, but in the end, I would like to be able to add/change objects myself, instead of having to rely on others.

NimoStar said:

That happens when you open with notepad and resave actually... you probably tried to do it before.

Get again the original tables.heroes.txt downloading the hero creature package, or extract one from my mod (or any version, depending on which you prefer to use as base)

Then use ONLY textedit, preferrably save as separate copy in another location. I use textedit to edit tables, as you can see in my mod, it works.
You can also edit them with Heroes Resource Extractor (it's one of the included plugins)


I just extracted it again, without opening it with notepad and still get an error message. I did however extract the tables.heroes from my new_mod file which contains my changes from the FaceTool - including name changes.

So my latest attempt:
I downloaded your creature package once more, to be certain the txt file isn't corrupted. Copied backup. Opened it with TextEdit and added changes - I wanted to make Kurtos appear a ghost. Saved it.


Then I open ResEdit2. Create a new file - untitled - and open it.
Click edit -> File Manager


I select the tables.heroes.txt file and press Make Change.
Then I get this error message:


This is my data folder, containing both the ghost.spr and .h4d files



So I ask again, what am I doing wrong??

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 08, 2016 05:02 AM

Resource editor is an old program. Notice the .zg

That means conversion to "7zip" format or something... I don't remember, some other old compressed format type. It doesn't matter.

THe file isn't corrupted. The file is fine.

What happens is:
Your file path is too long for it to be processed by the program.
To bypass this, most of my folders leading to my mod files are only 1 letter long.

For example, some of my .spr files to pack are in:
I:MovArchH4KSHc

Try something like that; names for h4 files are long by default, and this affects it, as well as the +.zg extension to compress.
So, try to keep the directory characters as low as possible.

As experiment, put it directly on C: drive.

You will see how it then works.
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted November 08, 2016 10:28 AM
Edited by Karmakeld at 13:11, 08 Nov 2016.

I did wonder why it added the zp, as it isn't compressed, but any attempts just gave the same error.
I'll try with a shorter path, thank you.
Edit:, okay so the shorter path allowed me to pack the file, but it's still not working. Not sure why. I've send you the new_mod file, hopefully you can enlighten me as to what I'm doing wrong.

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radmutant69
radmutant69


Adventuring Hero
posted November 25, 2016 11:31 AM
Edited by radmutant69 at 12:55, 25 Nov 2016.

Hello there!

I've just found this little Dwelling Mod on moddb. The mod contains some edited dwellings for creatures what you can't normally buy in the game (megadragons etc.).

http://www.moddb.com/games/heroes-of-might-and-magic-iv/downloads/tdc

Edit: it works but looks stupid when you buy sea monsters from a white tiger den...

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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted November 26, 2016 04:20 PM

Quest hut dwellings were made a long time ago, for those few creatures who didn't have a dwelling, but I recall Equilibris team posted images of what would become fx. Sea Monster dwelling. But I guess you gotta be patient about that. Personally I'd prefer a quest hut dwelling over the modded ones. It just seems weird.

On another note, NimoStar, a few weeks ago you wrote you might post a guide on how to hex edit objects in a map. Could you find the time to write and post that guide?

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nimostar
nimostar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 28, 2016 01:44 PM

I have become quite disillusioned with H4 modding due to not being the progress we expected (and by we I mean mostly me) with either namerutan tool or the scripted automation... and neither I have seen maps using hero creatures nor mini-mods.
It seems novelty I had created has wore off and not many people cared.
Furthermore, my mod isn't even very played it seems.

I could make more novelties but it's work, and then, who will use them?
If indications are correct, nearly nobody : (

So... probably, it's best to wait.
I think hex-editing is error prone especially to inexperienced people, if you cannot correctly use the program tools for those modding tasks, I'm afraid hex editing isn't likely to work either.

Nothing against you, I just don't have that much time and energy to spare into this project...

I have another, much bigger H4 related project, but it's completely different from this one.

It's an Heroes 4 RTS
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Famous Hero
posted November 28, 2016 09:59 PM

I'm not sure if you mean Namerutan's tool/the automated tool is progressing too slowly compared to what you hoped for or 'requested'..? Are u abandoning it coz of that?

I can inform you that I know of at least 2 projects that will be using your creature hero modding, but you can't except to release your mod/creature mod and see it used in maps shortly after. Decent maps and campaigns takes time to make, so you gotta have patience on that matter. I find your moddings very interesting and would like to make use some of the moddings you've proved possible, but lacking the skills myself I have to wait for easier solutions I guess. I did hope you'd share your knowledge about modding, as you initially wrote, as that is obviously one of the major reasons why there aren't many mods, but I also think you gotta consider a mod's target audience. I think a lot of the individual things you modded have great potential and might be used in future maps (again this might depend on availability to others). On one hand you opened a door by showing the community what can be done, but on the other you close it by not sharing the knowledge, so it may lead to more lighter/mini mods. I'm mostly interested in modding objects, not modding the game itself. A shame if you decide to leave it at this.

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nimostar
nimostar


Promising
Famous Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted November 29, 2016 04:40 PM

I tried to share as much as the modding knowledge as possible. My releases are very detailed and I have develped in conjunction with the community, unlike Equilibris team which kept everything a secret (and still does).

My Hero Creature release for example was aimed specifically at letting anyone do their mods in a very easy fashion (as weasy as it can get), even though it was completely useless to my own mod. So as you see, I have gone out of my way to try to get others into making their own stuff, and not just using mine as the only way to get new things (like Equi 3.55 was)...

If there's anything specific you want to know about how to mod, you can ask me.
But I don't have the time to monitor each person's errors individually, you have to try many times different things and search on the internet and threads to see how it goes. The questions I have gotten weren't about the methods I developed for modding but mostly common things... that were already known.
As for that, I have no idea about what corrupts your files, but error are common in modding, and you have to try and test everything you can. THings rarely go as expected when working with software, specially old programs like these ones.

* * *

I'm not abandoning it forever, perhaps, in the future, of more things are released/possible automating, I will go back at it.
For now, though, maybe I will just release a beta 0.12 of Greatest Mod and leave it at that,.
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