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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 04, 2015 11:48 PM |
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sorry for being off-topic, but i have to ask:
BM, does that stand for "bowel movement"?
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Datapack
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 12:06 AM |
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fred79 said: sorry for being off-topic, but i have to ask:
BM, does that stand for "bowel movement"?
Did those Twitch memelords say that?
In that case it's bad manners.
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:49 AM |
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Edited by nik312 at 10:49, 05 May 2015.
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Quote: And one other thing concerning the balance. I don't know if i am the only one but in my opinion inferno/evil castle is very less strong than the others. What do you think about changing a little bit the balance to improve inferno units
Inferno is one of the strongest castles in HotA. It may have some tempo problems due to immense amounts of money needed for demonology, but as a matter of fact demon-farming gives this castle an enourmous battle stack, that is beyond anything that any other castle may get out of their native units (well, maybe a stack of skeletons can come close to that, but still not there).
And if you have troubles at week 1 with inferno (like you definetely had in SoD) - just start with Calh and upgrade gogs on the very first day. It is enough to get one of the stongest shooting stacks of first week.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 02:11 PM |
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BM said:
And one other thing concerning the balance. I don't know if i am the only one but in my opinion inferno/evil castle is very less strong than the others. What do you think about changing a little bit the balance to improve inferno units ?
I feel the same way, the lack of hitpoints can't be compensated with actual creature abilities (fortress got at least armorer and defense). Only strong unit is efreet, devil (low hp) and cerberus, at least in hota magogs got two ranged modi but suck compared to liches in case of damaging your own units. Strong points is the no retailation ability for two fast units. I'm not a big fan of pit lords even if they got an interesting and powerful ability, but you need to sacrifice you own units once more to trigger the ability, meaning you lose hitpoints/units again over time that can't be compensated later. (at least in my playstyle) If they could summon demons without sacrificing units it would be another chapter, also if the sacrificed imps (demons) would stay after battle (transform hitpoints from units to demon with a small amount of additional hitpoints for demons, like necromancy for necropolis). This town could work great with grail building imho, but it's also useless in hota, 'coz creatures won't spawn on map on weeks/month (week of imp without imps for free on map kinda sucks), so it's another nerf for inferno and pitlords. This town may work best with diplomacy, when you can sacrifice tons of crap/random units for demons.
Castle gate is powerful, but on random maps you won't find any other inferno town, only with very much luck and only in late game so it's negligible compared to TP spell. Heroes got weak abilities compared to other towns (Cove, Stronghold, Rampart, Castle). Mana channel of imps is much inferior to wraiths drain that also works in stacks not once as for imps.
But I think it's just me that think so... I haven't played tournaments and homm3 is a nice game to chill out for me, I personally don't count movementpoints or flashmob maps with swarms of heroes... I wonder if there are any statistics how much inferno is played, somewhere on the last 30 pages there was a link about that, but it stated inferno as the town least played in tournaments as far as I remember. Correct me if I'm wrong...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 05, 2015 02:40 PM |
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I somehow think inferno weakness is in the landscape around. Even dirt compared to grass offers less one visit objects, while lava is more scarce. And demonology requires much more experience than clean the map with gran elves, this is why probably inferno is bad rated in statistics. But demons rule if you know how to multiply them, then devils can win battles other similar levels can't. And very early.
____________
Era II mods and utilities
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 03:10 PM |
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Yeah, thats another problem, lava only produces gold... I personally lack sulfur on most random maps, you guys got the same problem or is it caused by nagabank rework (gems for sulfur)?
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 06:47 PM |
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Edited by nik312 at 18:56, 05 May 2015.
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Quote: also if the sacrificed imps (demons) would stay after battle (transform hitpoints from units to demon with a small amount of additional hitpoints for demons, like necromancy for necropolis).
What can I say... Welcome to heroes 3. It is exactly the way it always was here. I don't really understand where people do get the notion that demons don't stay after battle (including myself about 6 years ago). They do and always did. 200 demons is a standard stack of inferno at the end of first month. Did you just miss out the whole thing that I said about "battle stack beyond anything that any castle can afford"?
Somewhat poorness of lava terrain is known as a thing, but is not a huge problem for HotA's inferno. However, there is a possibility that new gold banks will be added some day to lava.
Quote: I personally don't count movementpoints or flashmob maps with swarms of heroes...
Then I say again - any problems that you encounter are most probably not the problems of the game, but the problems of your inefficient actions. It is the same thing like if you tended to skip first 2 months by just pressing "End Turn" and then proclaimed smth like "In my opinion AI is unbeatable. It has Black dragons when I only have pikemen". Well, maybe you just don't have to skip first two months if you wish to see the real game problems, not the ones you create for yourself. No offence meant. Just trying to explain how it works
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 06:58 PM |
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Edited by nik312 at 19:06, 05 May 2015.
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Quote: I wonder if there are any statistics how much inferno is played
In SoD almost the least favorable castle. Just because of extremely weak striking power at week 1 plus a lot of gold needed week 2. In HotA there is no such problem (though tons of gold are still needed). However, as I play inferno in HotA more and more I start to feel more and more that huge tempo investment, that demonology requires. You can't really do much until you reach your first 30-50 demons, while other castles can already take maxi-conses at 121-123.
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted May 05, 2015 07:44 PM |
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Is "demonology" something new in HotA? I have never saw it before. Or are you referring to pit lords' ability to raise demons?
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted May 05, 2015 08:12 PM |
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I heard about this ability, but really, I didn't had the ocassion to do that .
I really want to do it though.
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 05, 2015 08:14 PM |
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LizardWarrior said: Is "demonology" something new in HotA? I have never saw it before. Or are you referring to pit lords' ability to raise demons?
Yes, there is a new object, pit lords form a circle around and praise the God of demons. Next day, a little demon appears. Do it again, have 7 little demons every week. Demonology.
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Era II mods and utilities
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 08:30 PM |
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@P4R4D0X0N
In addition to what nik312 said you don't lose hitpoints by demonfarming. In case you've got enough Pit Lords the conversion is 1:1.
The thing is you gain Attack+Defence+Damage for free (in case you demonfarm weaker creatures obviously) and you can squeeze various stacks coming from different cities into one native Demon stack.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 05, 2015 09:19 PM |
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I also feel Inferno is one of the weaker towns, but I'm happy HotA boosted Magogs and Arch Devils, actually Arch Devils -2 Luck can be pretty annoying fighting against if you don't have any luck, that way you do occasionally less damage to Inferno, kinda giving them more hp. (Tough luck if the enemy has +3 luck though)
Also Conflux and Necropolis was nerfed, pushing the balance in the right direction. And if Town Portal is not allowed but Infernos Castle Gate is, they have an advantage if the can get control of another Inferno. Demonfarming on the other hand I have never managed to do effectively, probably because it requires you to lose a stack every time.
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted May 05, 2015 09:23 PM |
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,,To raise, or not to raise demons with the Pit Lords in Heroes Of Might And Magic III:Horn Of The Abyss, that is the question'' -Shakespeare
Now, enough with the theater and humour, how to raise demons ?
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted May 05, 2015 09:32 PM |
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husham you seriously don't know how to do it?
Have you never seen other players or the AI do it?
You have to lose one of your stacks, have Pit Lords have their turn, place the cursor over your dead stack and you summon demons from that stack.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 10:17 PM |
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Inferno is far from weak even in SoD imo, that was my favourite castle in WCL. Unless of course u play skirmish M or something else, even balance can be tricky. But for example on Jebus and other big templates it actually rocks quite a lot.
Its surely stronger than Tower or Castle. Not top one like Stronghold and Fortress though.
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 05, 2015 11:39 PM |
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revolut1oN said: Inferno is far from weak even in SoD imo, that was my favourite castle in WCL. Unless of course u play skirmish M or something else, even balance can be tricky. But for example on Jebus and other big templates it actually rocks quite a lot.
Its surely stronger than Tower or Castle. Not top one like Stronghold and Fortress though.
Actually Jebus is one of the worst examples you could have provided
Arguably the worst template for inf (apart from m200 maybe). No time for demoning AT ALL. Like... AT ALL. The major strength of the castle remains unused and all you have to hope for is high amount of efreeti/devil dwells (which are definetely NOT easy to take week 1).
The best template for inferno and my best template of all is Mini-Nostalgia. Lots of time, lots of meat, reasonably rich.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 05, 2015 11:41 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
You have to lose one of your stacks, have Pit Lords have their turn, place the cursor over your dead stack and you summon demons from that stack.
This is the reason you best do this with non-Inferno troops that you got somewhere else. However, that's not always possible.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted May 06, 2015 11:45 AM |
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Nik, I'm eager to play on Jebus vs you antyime as I don't see the Inferno weakness on Jebus. I find it very suitable as you can very often find devil dwell and with super fast Demoniac Earth Magic preety much clear most of stuff with them only, while secondary heroes can swap dogs & rest for demons which is kinda easy as theres plenty of gold and lack of lava banks ain't problem anymore. Of course you won't have strong powerstack of demons before the second half of week2, but then again everything depends on desert guardian. If you get Efreet Sultans or AB's even Crag will have troubles getting out early. When you accumulate some decent ammount of demons even biggest utopias are cake with some fodder gogs and haste. Also I was thinking about Jebus XL, L may be too small as you probably will be on desert day or two later than most other castles with similiar guardians and then it can be dangerous.
Dunno about HotA though, Im totally inexperienced in its multi yet, just finished campaigns and some custom maps. How was Inferno buffed?
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husham123
Famous Hero
Yes
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posted May 06, 2015 12:02 PM |
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phoenix4ever said: husham you seriously don't know how to do it?
Have you never seen other players or the AI do it?
You have to lose one of your stacks, have Pit Lords have their turn, place the cursor over your dead stack and you summon demons from that stack.
Thank you, I will try this, it's just too much awsome.
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What the darn-diddily-doodily did you just say about me, you little witcharooney? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class at Springfield Bible College, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret
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