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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 500 pages long: 1 60 120 180 240 ... 293 294 295 296 297 ... 300 360 420 480 500 · «PREV / NEXT»
StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted March 19, 2018 12:32 PM

This probably can't be solved with the template editor but when creating templates is there any way to set towns so they can be assigned 'allowed' towns in a more even and balanced way when the map is created?  

I don't really want to set specific towns in same locations cause that would ruin replay ability of my templates but don't like the way random towns are assigned haphazardly where they all could be castles or none at all.

And if this isn't possible now then mark this as a 'suggestion'  either fixed in the template editor or Hota game when map is generated.

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OrrinIsTheBest
OrrinIsTheBest


Known Hero
posted March 19, 2018 12:40 PM

phoenix4ever said:
pellish said:
That's because you don't know how to do it. I bet you would if you could. You criticizing someone for editing "core gameplay" when you have a three-page thread about changing even more than the HotA crew ever did is pretty ironic.

No I would'nt, Resistance was a skill I was pretty satisfied with, except for the weird 5/10/20 progression.
Sure I have done a lot of changes and yes more than HotA does, but I consider my changes different from this Resistance nerf.
What HotA did here, was to eliminate a random factor, to make it more fair for tournament players. What is next step?, removing morale and luck from the game?
They also removed a random factor with the ability to change your Mage Guild, so everyone is guaranteed Slow, Town Portal, Resurrection etc., another change I don't like, at least that can be turned off.
My point is there are different kinds of changes and mine does'nt change the core gameplay like that.

It was not all "remove random factor to satisfy competitive players". They just started the reworking process of some skills with resistance and no,luck and morale won't be taken away,you can definitely feel safe about that.
As to spell research,trust me,it is still random and never guaranteed. A good example would be me,not getting slow after researching in MG of 3 towns.

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Zaibach
Zaibach


Hired Hero
posted March 19, 2018 12:52 PM
Edited by Zaibach at 12:54, 19 Mar 2018.

I'm with you, Hota crew! Always the best! Just continue to make Heroes 3 new and fresh! Thank you guys!

P.S.: Take a look on suggestions thread:
[url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43966&PID=1457542#focus]http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43966&PID=1457542#focus[/url]

See ya!
____________

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pellish
pellish


Famous Hero
posted March 19, 2018 03:21 PM

phoenix4ever said:
pellish said:
That's because you don't know how to do it. I bet you would if you could. You criticizing someone for editing "core gameplay" when you have a three-page thread about changing even more than the HotA crew ever did is pretty ironic.

No I would'nt, Resistance was a skill I was pretty satisfied with, except for the weird 5/10/20 progression.
Sure I have done a lot of changes and yes more than HotA does, but I consider my changes different from this Resistance nerf.
What HotA did here, was to eliminate a random factor, to make it more fair for tournament players. What is next step?, removing morale and luck from the game?
They also removed a random factor with the ability to change your Mage Guild, so everyone is guaranteed Slow, Town Portal, Resurrection etc., another change I don't like, at least that can be turned off.
My point is there are different kinds of changes and mine does'nt change the core gameplay like that.


You changed Eagle Eye and heightened its ability to steal spells to 100% for specialists with artifacts. Is that not “eliminating the random factor” as well?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 19, 2018 03:26 PM

Eagle Eye is still horrible even with my changes and I will never choose it, except for a very few cases. Eagle Eye needs all the help it can get and that is still far from enough.
Consider skills like Earth Magic, Logistics, Offense and Armorer, Eagle Eye will never become a must have skill, like those.

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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted March 19, 2018 03:46 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Eagle Eye is still horrible even with my changes and I will never choose it, except for a very few cases. Eagle Eye needs all the help it can get and that is still far from enough.
Consider skills like Earth Magic, Logistics, Offense and Armorer, Eagle Eye will never become a must have skill, like those.


True.  If I knew how I would add eagle eye abilities to Scholar and Scouting's range to Pathfind and just delete those skills.  As it is now I have them disabled.

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nik312
nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 19, 2018 06:19 PM

Mateusz said:
Hi everyone,

Honestly, I'm not an active user here but I have quite important thing to ask.

Firstly something about Ressistance (because it's hot now xD). For me PERFECT CHANGE. Old effect was dumb, completely random and annoying. Nice work HotA crew.

Ok, next, more important thing. I'm organizer of Heroes III Polish Championship. That's the biggest tournament in history of this game. We had 529 registered players at the beginning. And I'm also one of the co-creators of "Arena Konwentowa 2.5" (very popular map for duels).

My first question to HotA Crew: Is it possible to be in touch with me some way? Your big changes were released during our Championship and sometimes it is danger for tournament. Fortunatelly resistance case is not. But I can imagine for example that we organize a big final (probably on May) and in this day you have some work, lobby changes or something what paralyze this big and beatiful event.

My second question to HotA Crew: Is it possible some way to "block" random seed which is responsible for obstacles on battlefield? Why I'm asking. We have special tournament map, also very popular in for fun gaming through lobby "Arena konwentowa 2.5". The main concept of this map is to make hero, choose some artifacts and troops and perform a hard-fought final fight. On this map players always have three "squares" on the map to fight with different setting of obstacles. I sacrified a lot of time to find nice three squares in the row with good setting. But every new version of HotA change random seed and now, because of changes in battlefield Arena Konwentowa is definietly worse

My email adress: mateusz.jarzembski@gazeta.pl


Sent you an email - check it out

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 19, 2018 10:56 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:01, 19 Mar 2018.

StrikerX said:
If I knew how I would add eagle eye abilities to Scholar and Scouting's range to Pathfind and just delete those skills.  As it is now I have them disabled.

To simply remove the most useless skills, like it happens with Navigation on maps without water, seams a good choice to me. But then there are a dozen heroes with useless specialties (Eagle Eye, Mysticism, Learning) that would need to be reworked.
And I can recall one map where Eagle Eye is crucial and Mysticism (or Intelligence) is pretty useful in the last scenario of Dracon's campaign (curiously when I did it I had Intelligence and bought the Mystic Orb of Mana in the Artifacts Merchant).

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted March 20, 2018 10:19 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 22:20, 20 Mar 2018.

phoenix4ever said:

My point is there are different kinds of changes and mine does'nt change the core gameplay like that.


Could someone explain how resistance's effect is a core gameplay mechanic? I don't personally see it that way?

I've no issues of Hota team reworking some skills. To be honest, I find it rather mandatory in order to buff some weaker skills such as Eagle Eye and First aid.

Eagle Eye doesn't get much better even if you "max it out" = 100% to learn cast spells up to level 5.

Same goes for First aid: No matter how many hit points the tent restores, the skill is just not worth picking. If the healing ever turns problem for the opponent, he can just one-hit the tent away.

You see, it's not that the effect of those skills is too low - their mechanic just isn't good enough to start with. And for those reasons, I would say reworking skills is a must, if we ever want to bottom tier skills to be worth of picking. Sure, the reworks can be done in a way that they add a secondary effect to already existing skill.

Sure some bad skills are good or even mandatory in some maps, but then again, even with just HD mod some maps are not beatable. And it's not that there's no way you could play those maps anymore, if some skills are changed.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 20, 2018 10:35 PM

Hourglass said:
Could someone explain how resistance's effect is a core gameplay mechanic? I don't personally see it that way?



It is a core game-play mechanic when it affects the way resurrect is effective, as resurrect spell is the core itself of surviving manual to single player maps. At first, it will affect all designed maps until now, and possibly make them unplayable, for example if some bosses have high resistance %, therefore your spell power downgrades to ineffective levels while your mana is unchanged. Secondly, it will change the way many battles were created, both for AI as for human player: blind, mass slow, forgetfulness, berserk, they will all work every time now. This leads to having much less tools to create challenging battles.

The change is clearly for multiplayer, but then why not warn mapmakers to stop wasting their precious time, as their future maps will very probably not remain compatible with next versions.

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Dairy
Dairy


Known Hero
posted March 21, 2018 11:32 AM

Salamandre said:
Hourglass said:
Could someone explain how resistance's effect is a core gameplay mechanic? I don't personally see it that way?



It is a core game-play mechanic when it affects the way resurrect is effective, as resurrect spell is the core itself of surviving manual to single player maps. At first, it will affect all designed maps until now, and possibly make them unplayable, for example if some bosses have high resistance %, therefore your spell power downgrades to ineffective levels while your mana is unchanged. Secondly, it will change the way many battles were created, both for AI as for human player: blind, mass slow, forgetfulness, berserk, they will all work every time now. This leads to having much less tools to create challenging battles.

The change is clearly for multiplayer, but then why not warn mapmakers to stop wasting their precious time, as their future maps will very probably not remain compatible with next versions.


So thats what is all the fuzz about, because some maps wont be playable ?

So making the game more balanced is less important for you guys, than some of your own maps being unplayable, yet fixable ?

From the start of HotA most of you guys suggested and loved having "useless" sec. abilities reworked/changed/upgraded yet when something actually happens, all you do is grab your pitchforks and torches...

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 21, 2018 12:00 PM

Problem is they actually made Resistance (and Gold Dragons) worse, instead of looking at really bad skills like Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid and Mysticism.
And yes it might very well ruin some maps as Salamandre explained perfectly well.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted March 21, 2018 12:32 PM
Edited by Galaad at 12:33, 21 Mar 2018.

Dairy said:
From the start of HotA most of you guys suggested and loved having "useless" sec. abilities reworked/changed/upgraded yet when something actually happens, all you do is grab your pitchforks and torches...


There wasn't any polls made but I don't recall there was a majority asking for lesser secondary skills to be buffed. I personally voiced myself firmly against these suggestions for instance as I believe they belong in wog. I loved Hota for being an expansion adding new content and not changing the game's mechanics.
____________

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pekute99
pekute99


Known Hero
The prettiest I must say
posted March 21, 2018 03:29 PM
Edited by pekute99 at 15:30, 21 Mar 2018.

Spell Research isn't working

I have version 1.5.3 installed but somehow the Spell Research isn't working for me ? It's just the normal Mage Guild window when I enter.

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Popcioslav
Popcioslav


Hired Hero
The best H4 unit
posted March 21, 2018 03:54 PM

pekute99 said:
I have version 1.5.3 installed but somehow the Spell Research isn't working for me ? It's just the normal Mage Guild window when I enter.

It's normal, Spell Research is an OPTION you can turn off or on for individual towns on map editor and RMG I think.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted March 21, 2018 04:45 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 19:10, 21 Mar 2018.

phoenix4ever said:
Problem is they actually made Resistance (and Gold Dragons) worse, instead of looking at really bad skills like Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid and Mysticism.
And yes it might very well ruin some maps as Salamandre explained perfectly well.


You keep mentioning the Gold Dragons, so I deciced to do some math.
The old expert Resistance blocks spells on 20% rate, so spells go throught 4/5 times. The new resistance doesn't counter the damage, but your gold dragons take less damage from every Implosion cast on them.

In hota, Implosions base dmg is 100, and every spell point adds 75 more dmg.


Example one:: Your hero has the old version of Expert Resistance and thus has 20% of chance to block hostile spells.

Let's assume you're up against a hero with 20 spell power. He casts Implosion. If no other modifiers are present, it would deal 1600 dmg.

But old Resistance's block rate is 20%. It's likely that in order to Resistance to get any "value", the hero would need to cast implosion 5 times, so it would be mathematicially most accurate that one of them is blocked. In the process, the opponent would deal 5 x 1600 = 8000 dmg, where 1600 dmg is blocked, so gold dragons would take 6400 dmg in the end.

Okay, let's see what happens with the new resistance.

Example two: Your hero has the new version of Expert Resistance and your opponent has 30% less spell power.

You're up against the same hero with 20 spell power. All his spells will hit for sure, but this time, 30% of the opponent's spell power is cut. So, one Implosion would deal 1500 x 0,7 + 100 = 1150 dmg. To correctly compare new and old resistance, we would need to multiply that number with 5, because 5 spells were also cast in the first example. That would mean 5750 dmg.

In the end, with the new Resistance, gold dragons would take 650 less damage. Sure, sometimes you can get lucky roll, and in those 5 casts, you may end up blocking 2 or even more spells. But the more games you play, the more it will look like this.

The old resistance can be buffed with the artifacts, but then again, Orb of Vulnerability negates all magic resistances you have.

EDIT: I edited my post thanks to Chrizum's post. Hopefully it makes more sense now. I should also mention here that both new and old resistances are effected by the magic resist artifacts.

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Dairy
Dairy


Known Hero
posted March 21, 2018 04:58 PM

Hourglass said:
phoenix4ever said:
Problem is they actually made Resistance (and Gold Dragons) worse, instead of looking at really bad skills like Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid and Mysticism.
And yes it might very well ruin some maps as Salamandre explained perfectly well.


You keep mentioning the Gold Dragons, so I deciced to do some math.
The old expert Resistance blocks spells on 20% rate, so spells go throught 4/5 times. The new resistance doesn't counter the damage, but your gold dragons take less damage from every Implosion cast on them.

In hota, Implosions base dmg is 100, and every spell point adds 75 more dmg.

Let's assume you're up against a hero with 20 spell power. He casts Implosion. If no other modifiers are present, it would deal 1600 dmg.

But old Resistance's block rate is 20%. It's likely that in order to Resistance to get any "value", the hero would need to cast implosion 5 times, so it would be mathematicially most accurate that one of them is blocked. In the process, the opponent would deal 5 x 1600 = 8000 dmg, where 1600 dmg is blocked, so gold dragons would take 6400 dmg in the end.

Okay, let's see what happens with the new resistance.

You're up against the same hero with 20 spell power. All his spells will hit for sure, but this time, 30% of the opponent's spell power is cut. So, one Implosion would deal 1500 x 0,7 + 100 = 1150 dmg. To correctly compare new and old resistance, we would need to multiply that number with 5, because 5 spells were also cast in the first example. That would mean 5750 dmg.

In the end, with the new Resistance, gold dragons would take 650 less damage. Sure, sometimes you can get lucky roll, and in those 5 casts, you may end up blocking 2 or even more spells. But the more games you play, the more it will look like this.

The old resistance can be buffed with the artifacts, but then again, Orb of Vulnerability negates all magic resistances you have.


I am thinking what would happen if you change the 30% spell power debuff of enemy hero for 30% "magic damage resistance*". Would it be more player friendly ?

Or HotA wanted directly tackle the magic power of the enemy hero ?


*- by meaning reducing damage from all magic sources from enemy hero by 30%

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Chrizum
Chrizum

Tavern Dweller
posted March 21, 2018 05:38 PM

Hourglass said:
phoenix4ever said:
Problem is they actually made Resistance (and Gold Dragons) worse, instead of looking at really bad skills like Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid and Mysticism.
And yes it might very well ruin some maps as Salamandre explained perfectly well.


You keep mentioning the Gold Dragons, so I deciced to do some math.
The old expert Resistance blocks spells on 20% rate, so spells go throught 4/5 times. The new resistance doesn't counter the damage, but your gold dragons take less damage from every Implosion cast on them.

In hota, Implosions base dmg is 100, and every spell point adds 75 more dmg.

Let's assume you're up against a hero with 20 spell power. He casts Implosion. If no other modifiers are present, it would deal 1600 dmg.

But old Resistance's block rate is 20%. It's likely that in order to Resistance to get any "value", the hero would need to cast implosion 5 times, so it would be mathematicially most accurate that one of them is blocked. In the process, the opponent would deal 5 x 1600 = 8000 dmg, where 1600 dmg is blocked, so gold dragons would take 6400 dmg in the end.

Okay, let's see what happens with the new resistance.

You're up against the same hero with 20 spell power. All his spells will hit for sure, but this time, 30% of the opponent's spell power is cut. So, one Implosion would deal 1500 x 0,7 + 100 = 1150 dmg. To correctly compare new and old resistance, we would need to multiply that number with 5, because 5 spells were also cast in the first example. That would mean 5750 dmg.

In the end, with the new Resistance, gold dragons would take 650 less damage. Sure, sometimes you can get lucky roll, and in those 5 casts, you may end up blocking 2 or even more spells. But the more games you play, the more it will look like this.

The old resistance can be buffed with the artifacts, but then again, Orb of Vulnerability negates all magic resistances you have.


Am I missing something here? Gold Dragon's don't have magic resistance, they are immune to spell levels 1-4.

Also, all artifacts that buffed old resistance buff this new resistance just the same.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted March 21, 2018 06:03 PM

Dairy said:
So thats what is all the fuzz about, because some maps wont be playable ?

Please, open Maps4heroes and see how many custom maps were made till this day before making these kind of observations. Not to mention the difference in quality between a good custom map and what you usually get from the RMG.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted March 21, 2018 06:38 PM

Chrizum said:

Am I missing something here? Gold Dragon's don't have magic resistance, they are immune to spell levels 1-4.

Also, all artifacts that buffed old resistance buff this new resistance just the same.


Sorry for not making sense. What I meant to do was to compare the old and the new resistances. Phoenix4ever has been conserned about the state of gold dragons, and thus I end up using them in my example, I do know that they don't normally have magic resistance.
And you're right about the artifacts, they do buff the new resistance aswell, I should have mentioned that.

I'll edit my previous post so further confusion can be avoided.


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