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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Super Thread is 549 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 ... 296 297 298 299 300 ... 350 420 490 549 · «PREV / NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 23, 2018 01:40 PM

Thank you. (I usually don't launch the game through HotA launcher, that's why I did'nt see it.)

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted March 23, 2018 02:03 PM

Same here. I use HD launcher. A question (because you installed 1.5.3): if you turn on old resistance and launch via HD launcher, does it work?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 23, 2018 02:37 PM

Ehm, it's actually really weird.
The "test update" (with old Resistance) is called 1.5.3e and all my changes to the game seem to work, however the description of the skills uses the old text.
For example I changed Learning from 5/10/15 to 10/20/30 and if I launch the game as 1.5.3 it uses my descriptions of Learning, but if I launch 1.5.3e it uses the old description of Learning, it still gives the right percentages though. Really weird.

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Erathianer
Erathianer


Adventuring Hero
posted March 23, 2018 02:50 PM

"Resistance secondary skill and Garniture of Interference, Surcoat of Counterpoise, Boots of Polarity, and Pendant of Reflection artifacts reduce enemy hero Spell Power skill during combat instead of increasing a chance to resist a spell"


When the opponent hero has like 50 spellpower, isnt resistance kind of useless when the opponent casts slow, curse, blind or something like that? i liked it that it was possible to resist that!

seriously guys, who is with me? Resistance was such a cool skill!

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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted March 23, 2018 03:41 PM
Edited by StrikerX at 16:22, 23 Mar 2018.

phoenix4ever said:
Thank you. (I usually don't launch the game through HotA launcher, that's why I did'nt see it.)


I mentioned how to do it even quoting you when you said you wished we had an option to play with the old mechanic at the top of previous page
___________________________

Erathianer said:
"Resistance secondary skill and Garniture of Interference, Surcoat of Counterpoise, Boots of Polarity, and Pendant of Reflection artifacts reduce enemy hero Spell Power skill during combat instead of increasing a chance to resist a spell"


When the opponent hero has like 50 spellpower, isnt resistance kind of useless when the opponent casts slow, curse, blind or something like that? i liked it that it was possible to resist that!

seriously guys, who is with me? Resistance was such a cool skill!


Even if the enemy had 10 spellpower and I had 50% resist that still 5 turns of mass slow without any chance to resist (to counter it quickly) which is more than enough to cripple an army not to mention all the other spells you mentioned like blind, mass berserk!, that will always hit.  

On the other hand I rarely picked the ability so it makes it easier playing against heroes that have it.  I'm not arguing against it though.  I didn't really like the old random part of the old mechanic and like the permanent basis of giving/receiving lower dmg but in my opinion it seems like anyone that doesn't have resist / immune fast creatures in there army have just been (something/nerfed?) with no way of a fast counter to mass slow / mass berserk (atleast the option existed if you wanted it for some kind of resistance to the spell).  Some people complain about it lowering spellpower for spells like ressurect but for me that spell is easy mode (blind last stack and resurrect everyone, rinse and repeat) so I disabled that spell and it makes the game (a bit) more challenging and makes you use more variety of spells.
________________________________

BTW.  Mass berserk + cape of silence = devastastion  I just played a game and the AI had cape of silence so I couldn't dispel, mass haste or mass slow) and berserked practically my entire army huddled behind my castle walls like 4 different times in a battle lol.      They just kinda watched my town destroy itself

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R0d
R0d

Tavern Dweller
posted March 23, 2018 06:59 PM

TyrAntilles said:
Sorry for the lengthy post, but I invested lots of hopes in HotA and I want to express my thougts.

For me is not important if the new Resistance is better then the old one. For me is BAD because it modifies the original Heroes III mechanic.
If this path will be taken by HotA team I am afraid that, with future changes HotA will become only a custom version of Heroes III among other custom versions like WoG too few want to play because of change of rules. None of my friends want to learn custom rules for a game they play from 1999 and grow to love it because of the way it was all this time.

I stated my impressions right after the publish of v.1.5.2 on page 291 of this thread: [url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39830&pagenumber=291]http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=39830&pagenumber=291[/url]

I was really excited about HotA and promoted it as well I could. I contacted Softpedia editors and managed to have HotA included on their site: [url=http://games.softpedia.com/get/Mods-Addons/Heroes-of-Might-and-Magic-III-Horn-of-the-Abyss.shtml]http://games.softpedia.com/get/Mods-Addons/Heroes-of-Might-and-Magic-III-Horn-of-the-Abyss.shtml[/url]
I wrote reviews about HotA on Computergames on several other forums because I saw HotA as the 4th expansion of Heroes III, not a custom mod, because of the original statement of the developers found on the first page of this thread:
"Introduction
So, what is Horn of the Abyss?
HotA is a global add-on for Heroes of might and magic III that extends (and fixes if needed) classical gameplay elements and adds some of its own. On a more conceptual level – HotA is an attempt to continue legendary series RoE-AB-SoD as close to the original as it could have been done by NWC team, if only they had more desire, resources or even understanding of their own game. We try to keep classical h3 spirit in every tiny detail from code nuances to overall gameplay. Be welcome to check if we’ve succeeded. "

Before the changes in the core gameplay HotA team really succedeed in delivering the most outstanding version of Heroes III I ever played. I am very grateful for it.

Somwhere else it was written about HotA project:
"The aim of the project is to create an add-on for Heroes of Might & Magic III SoDComplete with lots of new features. The team is focusing on the QUALITY of all new HotA features and that means the maintenance of original game balance, and by making all new graphic materials in the original heroes style."

On 03.January.2016 I wrote and posted on some forums about HotA:
"For those who have not yet learned, Heroes of Might and Magic III  Horn of the Abyss, or HOMM3 HotA, is the fourth expansion to Heroes III, which continues the development of the game where 3DO has left it before it collapse. The team from Russia that has developed and continues to expand this expansion focuses its efforts on quality of new game additions and on maintaining the original balance of the game in the spirit of the classical Heroes III. This distinguishes HotA from other H3 mods like "In the Wake of Gods" or "ERA", which adds custom rules or changes the game so it does not look much like Heroes III. HotA is exactly like Heroes III Shadow of Death, but fixes a lot of bugs, introduces a new town called The Cove, breed and extends the game with new artifacts, objects, structures and new heroes. Ah, and adds XL larger maps, that is, Huge, XHuge and Giant, as well as a map editor with an improved map generator."

I believe the huge success HotA had so far, was precisely because it respected to the letter the original Heroes III, improving and expanding the game. That's why many fans created awesome and complex HotA maps, including myself: [url=http://www.maps4heroes.com/heroes3/maps.php?keywords=Antilles&type=&size=&sort=3]http://www.maps4heroes.com/heroes3/maps.php?keywords=Antilles&type=&size=&sort=3[/url]

I am afraid that, if HotA will continue walking the custom route from now on, many traditional Heroes III fans will feel disappointed and stop following the project. On the other hand there are some who seem to like the changes. I see only one solution at this point to make everyone happy: develop in the same time two versions of HotA, one that respect the old Heroes III SoD rules to the letter, but with all addons and fixes, and one version with custom mechanic and spells for the ones interested in a custom and perhaps more balanced game. As for myself: I am only interested to play the conservative version, the one that respects the old H3SoD rules.


Very well explained, that's exactly how I feel about this new version. Couldn't have it said better myself.

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 23, 2018 07:03 PM
Edited by avatar at 19:05, 23 Mar 2018.

TyrAntilles said:

For me is not important if the new Resistance is better then the old one. For me is BAD because it modifies the original Heroes III mechanic.

AB changed RoE mechanics, SoD changed AB mechanics, HotA from version 1.0 changed SoD mechanics. Why noise now?
____________

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just0
just0


Adventuring Hero
posted March 23, 2018 07:42 PM
Edited by just0 at 21:35, 23 Mar 2018.

avatar said:
AB changed RoE mechanics, SoD changed AB mechanics, HotA from version 1.0 changed SoD mechanics. Why noise now?
Because it doesn't make any sense for "Resistance" to affect enemy spells cast on enemy troops.

I can understand going from "chance to resist" to "lower effective spell power" but I don't see any reason to change it to affect previously unaffected spell casts.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 23, 2018 07:44 PM

avatar said:
TyrAntilles said:

For me is not important if the new Resistance is better then the old one. For me is BAD because it modifies the original Heroes III mechanic.

AB changed RoE mechanics, SoD changed AB mechanics, HotA from version 1.0 changed SoD mechanics. Why noise now?


That's a very good point.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted March 23, 2018 07:50 PM
Edited by Galaad at 20:05, 23 Mar 2018.

avatar said:
HotA from version 1.0 changed SoD mechanics. Why noise now?


It was very subtle back then. Maybe it's this + this + this + that... Then suddenly we reach 1.5 and realize 'hey, what just happened'.
____________

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 23, 2018 07:55 PM

Maybe I just have a memory problem but can you name any concept, skill, battle or map adventure feature which experienced gameplay changes from Roe to Sod? From what I recall, Roe maps are 100% compatible with SoD -unless I forgot something, while hota maps, from the beginning, are not compatible with SoD (the magic tomes specificity for instance)

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avatar
avatar


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted March 23, 2018 08:21 PM

Moat damage and combined artifacts. Those changes didn't break compatibility but formally changed game mechanics.
____________

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 23, 2018 08:27 PM

Not only does it change a game mechanic, but it also messes up the balance between factions. It hits Warlocks, Witches and Heretics hard, while it does'nt affect Barbarians and Beastmasters very much.

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DrSlash
DrSlash


Hired Hero
posted March 23, 2018 08:49 PM

Salamandre said:
Maybe I just have a memory problem but can you name any concept, skill, battle or map adventure feature which experienced gameplay changes from Roe to Sod?

Apart from the numerous stuff that was actually added to the gameplay rather than changed (e.g. moat damage, combination artifacts, ability to upgrade units after purchase etc.)? Off the top of my head, complete removal of requirements to pick up artifacts (you needed certain seconadary skills to pick up some artifacts in Heroes II and RoE), and there were instances in RoE when stats of some units actually decreased when you upgraded them (e.g. Cerberi had lower damage than Hell Hounds in RoE).

Salamandre said:
From what I recall, Roe maps are 100% compatible with SoD

That's not because gameplay didn't change between the versions, but rather because all addons have backward compatibility with RoE maps (moat doesn't do damage etc.). Such compatibility with SoD maps could be added to HotA in the future, but it doesn't have a very high priority (why would anyone play SoD maps in HotA if they don't want HotA's changes anyway?).

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted March 23, 2018 08:58 PM

ok, thanks for refreshing my memory.

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10
10

Tavern Dweller
posted March 23, 2018 09:06 PM

Salamandre said:
Maybe I just have a memory problem but can you name any concept, skill, battle or map adventure feature which experienced gameplay changes from Roe to Sod?

Well, in RoE 1.0 some artifacts on ground has been guarded by monsters (with prompt to fight them) or require either wisdom or leadership to pick them up. Still can't understand why NWC removed that (in 1.1 I think).

But I dislike resistance change. Especially their justification for that. If black orb, resurrect, elemental summon is overpowered they should just nerf them instead of butchering well-known secondary skill.

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Cip016
Cip016

Tavern Dweller
posted March 23, 2018 09:59 PM

Dear HOTA Crew. let's be honnest. Nobody cares about changing a useless skill like Resistance, or other minor imbalances. Those imbalances and the original spells and skills make the Game challenging and great. We all want new Spells, new Creatures, and specially new Towns. So please don't waste your precious time with tweeks and balances, and minor stuff. Please give us watt we really want...make the Horn of the Abyss the real expansion that it was ment to be !

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Sav
Sav


Known Hero
posted March 23, 2018 10:01 PM
Edited by Sav at 22:05, 23 Mar 2018.

I will add a bit about how it was in first RoE in addition to what was mentioned above:
— Gremlin-rush: each hero after he fled from a battle could be hired in tavern with the normal starting army and 2000 movement points. All heroes in tavern were with normal starting army, not only new week ones.
— Exernal taverns allowed to hire different heroes from town taverns and didn't allow to hire heroes fled from a battle.
— It was not possible to leave guards in mines.
— It was not possible to visit objects using space bar.
— It was not possible to control arrow towers even with artillery skill.
— Dragon Flies didn't cast weakness.
— Lizard Warriors had 2–3 damage range.
— Griffin conservatories offered a battle with 40–60–80–100 Griffins for 2–3–4–5 Angels.
— Tower heroes had 50–75 Gremlins.

And a few game-breaking bugs:
— It was possible to sacrifice enemy creatures using Sacrifice spell.
— Cyclopes could damage walls during tactic phase (so, they could destroy all the walls before the battle started).

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 23, 2018 10:19 PM

Okay it's very clear that many of us don't like the Resistance change, so why do you have to force it upon us? Why?

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Cip016
Cip016

Tavern Dweller
posted March 23, 2018 10:51 PM

Sav said:
I will add a bit about how it was in first RoE in addition to what was mentioned above:
— Gremlin-rush: each hero after he fled from a battle could be hired in tavern with the normal starting army and 2000 movement points. All heroes in tavern were with normal starting army, not only new week ones.
— Exernal taverns allowed to hire different heroes from town taverns and didn't allow to hire heroes fled from a battle.
— It was not possible to leave guards in mines.
— It was not possible to visit objects using space bar.
— It was not possible to control arrow towers even with artillery skill.
— Dragon Flies didn't cast weakness.
— Lizard Warriors had 2–3 damage range.
— Griffin conservatories offered a battle with 40–60–80–100 Griffins for 2–3–4–5 Angels.
— Tower heroes had 50–75 Gremlins.

And a few game-breaking bugs:
— It was possible to sacrifice enemy creatures using Sacrifice spell.
— Cyclopes could damage walls during tactic phase (so, they could destroy all the walls before the battle started).





Yeah RoE was a bit to imbalanced. I give you that . Maybe that's why the issued the expansion of AM and SoD. to correct a balance the game

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