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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Super Thread is 549 pages long: 1 70 140 210 280 ... 297 298 299 300 301 ... 350 420 490 549 · «PREV / NEXT»
R0d
R0d

Tavern Dweller
posted March 23, 2018 10:53 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Okay it's very clear that many of us don't like the Resistance change, so why do you have to force it upon us? Why?


Apparently because people that play single or casual multiplayer are peasants that "don't understand" the game, while pro multiplayer gamers that treat H3 as a competitive eSport are a beacon of knowledge that enlightens the illiterate masses and know exactly what JVC and his team wanted for the game, including removing a skill that has been in the game for almost 20 years and replace it for a new one.

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revolut1oN
revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted March 23, 2018 11:26 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Okay it's very clear that many of us don't like the Resistance change, so why do you have to force it upon us? Why?


Maybe because there are plenty of player who like the change?

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kvrier
kvrier

Tavern Dweller
posted March 23, 2018 11:27 PM
Edited by kvrier at 01:30, 24 Mar 2018.

phoenix4ever said:

Okay it's very clear that many of us don't like the Resistance change


No, it is not clear. Also many people have expressed they enjoy new changes, they have mixed feelings or they do not made opinion yet.
phoenix4ever said:

so why do you have to force it upon us? Why?


This is getting ridiculous, do you even read the comments in this post? None is forcing you. It was said few times already you have an option in HD Launcher to choose a version of Resistance.
Quote:

In order to allow the players to compare the two mechanics and appreciate the advantages of the new one, we introduced the test version option in the HotA 1.5.3 launcher. With it enabled, the game will employ the old Resistance mechanic.


StrikerX said:

You might have known this already but it took me a bit to find it.  If you run HotA_Launcher.exe and click box 'Activate test updates' one can still use the old resistance mechanic atleast until the new update when it will probably go away.


revolut1oN said:

Lol, in 1.53 u can still use the old mechanic. Its pointless to argue with people who cant even read changelog and are only complaining all day long, without any reason.


StrikerX said:

I mentioned how to do it even quoting you when you said you wished we had an option to play with the old mechanic at the top of previous page






R0d said:

people that play single or casual multiplayer are peasants that "don't understand" the game, while pro multiplayer gamers that treat H3 as a competitive eSport are a beacon of knowledge that enlightens the illiterate masses and know exactly what JVC and his team wanted for the game, including removing a skill that has been in the game for almost 20 years and replace it for a new one.people that play single or casual multiplayer are peasants that "don't understand" the game, while pro multiplayer gamers that treat H3 as a competitive eSport are a beacon of knowledge that enlightens the illiterate masses and know exactly what JVC and his team wanted for the game, including removing a skill that has been in the game for almost 20 years and replace it for a new one.


You say that lol


revolut1oN said:

stop repeating your statements all the time. It's not going to make your point any bigger. To me it just makes a little mess in the thread.


Thank you, Sir.

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just0
just0


Adventuring Hero
posted March 23, 2018 11:46 PM
Edited by just0 at 01:35, 24 Mar 2018.

kvrier said:
It was said few times already you have an option in HD Launcher to choose a version of Resistance.
It was also said that this option will be going away in the next update. So it's no wonder that it didn't do much to console us.

I'd appreciate a response from a HotA crew member as to whether or not they've considered changing the scope of effectiveness of the new "Resistance" skill back to its original. As in only lowering spell power for spell casts that could have previously been "resisted" by the old mechanic.

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pellish
pellish


Famous Hero
posted March 23, 2018 11:54 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Okay it's very clear that many of us don't like the Resistance change, so why do you have to force it upon us? Why?


No one forces you to play HotA at all actually.

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kvrier
kvrier

Tavern Dweller
posted March 24, 2018 12:23 AM
Edited by kvrier at 00:26, 24 Mar 2018.

just0 said:
kvrier said:
It was said few times already you have an option in HD Launcher to choose a version of Resistance.
It was also said that this option will be going away in the next update. So it's no wonder that it didn't do much to console us.

I'd appreciate a response from a HotA crew member as to whether or not they've considered changing the scope of effectiveness of the new "Resistance" skill back to its original. As in only lowering the spell power for spell casts that could have previously been "resisted" by the old mechanic.


I understand, however next major update besides removing this option will bring to us reworking of another skills and spells. This will provide completely fresh perspective on the changes done already. Until then, we can test both alternatives.

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just0
just0


Adventuring Hero
posted March 24, 2018 12:33 AM
Edited by just0 at 00:34, 24 Mar 2018.

kvrier said:
I understand, however next major update besides removing this option will bring to us reworking of another skills and spells.
I just hope they do this in an as conservative way possible.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted March 24, 2018 12:36 AM
Edited by Hourglass at 01:15, 24 Mar 2018.

This is getting a bit ridiculous. At this point, I wouldn't be surpised if English language support would be dropped from Hota altogether.

At current state, nobody should complain, as everyone can choose to play with whatever Resistance they wish. IIRC, it took over 18 months to release 1.5.0, when the newest version was 1.4.2. Who knows when we will receive the next patch? (if ever, with these kind of reactions)

Hota team has stated that there will be more changes, so why not stick with the current version available, if you're thinking the teams vision is (and will go) wrong? I was extremely happy with Hota's state with like 4 patches ago.

avatar said:

AB changed RoE mechanics, SoD changed AB mechanics, HotA from version 1.0 changed SoD mechanics. Why noise now?


Exaclty. It's not like they nerfed necropolis, conflux and dimension door for example in the past. Those changes are far bigger than the changes to resistance - yet very few people have said anything about those changes, despite this topic having countless comments.

I would also like to point out that they made a change to Armaggeddon as well in 1.5.2, and I've yet to seen nobody commeting anything about that.

It was discussed that the switch of resistance would make some maps unplayable, yet Nik's last post remains unanswered.

Not sure who it was, but someone said that we brought a car, and Hota team made us an aeroplane for free. Yet people are complaining that the color of the plane's wheels is wrong.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted March 24, 2018 01:16 AM
Edited by Galaad at 01:21, 24 Mar 2018.

Hourglass said:
It's not like they nerfed necropolis, conflux and dimension door for example in the past. Those changes are far bigger than the changes to resistance


These were OP and still are, only less so. Replacing a skill with something else entirely is a bigger change imo.

Anyway I think they got the point that people are divided on some of their changes and to me it started with spell research.
____________

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted March 24, 2018 01:17 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 01:21, 24 Mar 2018.

Hourglass said:

Exaclty. It's not like they nerfed necropolis, conflux and dimension door for example in the past. Those changes are far bigger than the changes to resistance - yet very few people have said anything about those changes, despite this topic having countless comments.

I would also like to point out that they made a change to Armaggeddon as well in 1.5.2, and I've yet to seen nobody commeting anything about that.

It was discussed that the switch of resistance would make some maps unplayable, yet Nik's last post remains unanswered.

Not sure who it was, but someone said that we brought a car, and Hota team made us an aeroplane for free. Yet people are complaining that the color of the plane's wheels in wrong.

The nerfs to Necropolis, Conflux and DD were good and needed changes.
I have never really heard anyone complain about the Resistance skill though, but apparently HotA found it a problem.

Yes they changed Armageddon too and I have no problem with that, it was an extremely overpowered spell and in my game it is only half as strong as HotAs new version, that's how OP I think it was.
On the other hand they should boost the other damaging Fire spells, cause they are really weak.

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nik312
nik312


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 24, 2018 01:48 AM
Edited by nik312 at 02:02, 24 Mar 2018.

just0 said:
kvrier said:
It was said few times already you have an option in HD Launcher to choose a version of Resistance.


I'd appreciate a response from a HotA crew member as to whether or not they've considered changing the scope of effectiveness of the new "Resistance" skill back to its original. As in only lowering the spell power for spell casts that could have previously been "resisted" by the old mechanic.


Of course not, why would we make it as it is if we wanted it to impact only the spells that previous resistance impacted?

How do people imagine the process of deciding the change to a skill like that? We just toss out a few ideas and then roll dice to determine which will become reality? Or we just somehow missed all the obvious facts about how it changes the interactions with debuffs/buffs and other spells?

The resistance got this new mechanic exactly for it to impact all the spells that wouldn't be impacted by "Golem-type" resistance or any other type of resistance in your own troops including their full immunity. Most importantly - resurrection and summon elementals. There are very few game elements that could be changed in such a way to allow an elegant counter without totally ruining the idea of the element. In case of resistance we consider the idea to be simple enough - it's just a skill to reduce the effectiveness of enemy magic. Preferably through some kind of toughness in your own units, but that part is not as essential. Or at least not as important as an impact that the new mechanics promises.

We could of course make it a simple golem-type resistance and just admit it as a failed skill (barring some ridiculous numbers like 50% on Expert), but we instead would actually love the skill to be usable for its purpose. It is at the end of the day the only actual anti-magical skill. At the same time it better not be yet another boring "enemy damage spells hit weaker", that literally every other magic counter already provides.

P.S. May add a few more thoughts in 10-12 hours

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just0
just0


Adventuring Hero
posted March 24, 2018 02:05 AM
Edited by just0 at 07:48, 24 Mar 2018.

nik312 said:
At the same time it better not be yet another boring "enemy damage spells hit weaker", that literally every other magic counter already provides.
Not just the damage spells. All enemy spell casts on allied troops. But enemy spell casts on enemy troops shouldn't be affected.

nik312 said:
We could of course make it a simple golem-type resistance and just admit it as a failed skill (barring some ridiculous numbers like 50% on Expert).
I think most hardcore conservative heroes fans would appreciate something more along these lines. I hope that in the upcoming rework you'll be able to make things more balanced while retaining some semblance of the old resistance mechanic. This mental/magical suppression aura just doesn't fit for heroes like Thorgrim and a simple name/icon change isn't going to fix it.

I think the new resistance skill would still be more useful than the old one if its effects were limited to your own troops. The old one prevented you from buffing your own units, while with the new one you can buff your troops however you like. Yes, enemy heroes would still be able resurrect and summon elementals, but there are artifacts to deal with that. And maybe you could add more artifact(s) to deal specifically with these things instead of completely replacing the old resistance mechanic.

We have the Orb of Inhibition and the Ring of Oblivion. How about an object of some kind that prevents summoning elementals? An elemental barrier or something. Globe of Planar Interference.

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kvrier
kvrier

Tavern Dweller
posted March 24, 2018 03:07 AM
Edited by kvrier at 03:10, 24 Mar 2018.

nik312 said:

The resistance got this new mechanic exactly for it to impact all the spells that wouldn't be impacted by "Golem-type" resistance or any other type of resistance in your own troops including their full immunity. Most importantly - resurrection and summon elementals.



This part reminded me about blind+resurrect tactic (or blind+clone in archangels case). This trick can simply save your army from any losses. In addition it works great with many elements in the game like Intelligence, Shackles of War and Magic Wells.

Dungeon completely abuses this mechanic with its Mana Vortex, two heroes with Resurrect speciality and strong earth/fire magic. This also applies to Necropolis. Only limits are enemy mana or Orb of Inhibition. After update it is not that simple and a new Resistance makes it less overpowered.

nik312, I want to ask you if does new Resistance affect any spellcaster creatures?

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just0
just0


Adventuring Hero
posted March 24, 2018 03:13 AM
Edited by just0 at 03:37, 24 Mar 2018.

kvrier said:
Only limits are enemy mana or Orb of Inhibition.
Also the Ring of Oblivion.
kvrier said:
I want to ask you if does new Resistance affect any spellcaster creatures?
Pretty sure it only affects heroes.


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kvrier
kvrier

Tavern Dweller
posted March 24, 2018 03:36 AM

just0 said:
kvrier said:
Only limits are enemy mana or Orb of Inhibition.
Also the Ring of Oblivion.


And Recanter's Cloak. Yeah, I forgot about them. Anyway it is comparing three rare artifacts with easy reachable trick.

However it does not change the fact adding Ring of Oblivion was great idea.

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just0
just0


Adventuring Hero
posted March 24, 2018 03:39 AM
Edited by just0 at 16:06, 24 Mar 2018.

kvrier said:
However it does not change the fact adding Ring of Oblivion was great idea.
Yes. And I think adding other similar artifacts might be a better way to balance this problem instead of completely annihilating the old mechanic in every way.

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kvrier
kvrier

Tavern Dweller
posted March 24, 2018 03:43 AM
Edited by kvrier at 03:45, 24 Mar 2018.

just0 said:
completely annihilating the old mechanic in every way.


I think you are a little bit overreacting

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just0
just0


Adventuring Hero
posted March 24, 2018 03:51 AM
Edited by just0 at 04:44, 24 Mar 2018.

kvrier said:
I think you are a little bit overreacting
What can I say? I'm a fanatic.

If the new resistance mechanic really does stay intact as it currently exists I really do want the skill's new name to be "Thorgrim GG" and the icon to be Thorgrim's face with his tongue sticking out.



Ironically the best way to counter Thorgrim at the moment is to get the Orb of Inhibition yourself. LOL.

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kvrier
kvrier

Tavern Dweller
posted March 24, 2018 04:37 AM
Edited by kvrier at 18:39, 24 Mar 2018.

just0 said:


Haha, I see you are also an artistic enthusiast


I'd like to apologize every graphic designer who ever worked on Heroes 3

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imid
imid


Hired Hero
posted March 24, 2018 06:01 AM

revolut1oN said:
phoenix4ever said:
Okay it's very clear that many of us don't like the Resistance change, so why do you have to force it upon us? Why?


Maybe because there are plenty of player who like the change?


maybe because it is a great change and most of the players like it?
I'm only worried about the AI, is it better with the new changes? Is there any HOTA mate around to clarify this point?

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