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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Announcements, Questions, Features This Popular Thread is 420 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 80 160 240 320 400 ... 416 417 418 419 420 · «PREV / NEXT»
VMaiko
VMaiko


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2020 08:35 PM

I still think that nerf logistics was a serious mistake, I no longer enjoy HotA as before.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Legendary Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted May 22, 2020 09:35 PM

Logistics seems fine to me. I don't really understand why so many people complain about it.

I never really noticed anything with the changes. Maybe I am just really unobservant then.
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"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 22, 2020 09:53 PM

VMaiko said:
I still think that nerf logistics was a serious mistake, I no longer enjoy HotA as before.


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VMaiko
VMaiko


Adventuring Hero
posted May 22, 2020 10:00 PM
Edited by VMaiko at 22:02, 22 May 2020.

Oddball13579 said:
Logistics seems fine to me. I don't really understand why so many people complain about it.

I never really noticed anything with the changes. Maybe I am just really unobservant then.


If you were a dedicated speed hero (Kyrre, Gunnar, Dessa) you would understand. It also ruins speedruns and it's torture to finish a huge map with so little movement of the skill. But the strong point also of this serious mistake is that I usually play my games with only 1 hero who specializes in logistics, and now with the logistics nerf it's breaks that way of playing with a speed hero on huge maps.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 22, 2020 10:05 PM

One thing I liked in HotA was how they capped the levels at 74, in WoG from time to time my heroes even got negative levels and it was easy to get above 1000 in highly scripted maps, with this nerf I kind of miss that.
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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Legendary Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted May 22, 2020 10:08 PM
Edited by Oddball13579 at 22:10, 22 May 2020.

Not to poo-poo on people's playstyles... but I think the point of large maps and above is to stop speedruns. I understand that speed is a factor for your final score at the end of the map, but I don't think the nature of a large map and above is for speed. Generally larger maps are played for longer games.
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 22, 2020 10:11 PM

Kyrre, Gunnar and Dessa were (are?) the best heroes in the game, it's good they toned them down. (Don't like the current 5/10/20 progression though.)

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Legendary Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted May 22, 2020 10:15 PM

Melodia best hero!
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 22, 2020 10:52 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 22:54, 22 May 2020.

gatecrasher said:
Hourglass said:

2) Skill such as Ballistics is very bad to begin with, but pretty much completely useless in multiplayer style of play.


Huh? What am I missing? You need to get past the walls in order to win.


Usually, in MP games, there's one big battle between the players, and then it's usually over - the player who lost gg's out. This is because in order to continue the game, one must have an army, otherwise no (major) objectives can be done. The other player on the other hand may have at least some of his army left, and therefore is capable of mustering more army/stats/objectives in general. So basically the other player cannot progress, while other player can. Contiuning the game is possible, but it's only going to delay the evident.

Also, in most templates, you have one town with Fort prebuilt, and it's your starting one. The neutral towns conquered usually comes with no Fort at all, and Fort/Citadel/Castle isn't exactly something the player would like to invest. Therefore, even if there would be some siege happening, it would likely be Fort at best, so the Ballistics wouldn't even be needed in that case. Even if there would be more resistance, most templates allow creature banks, so your army will likely have wyverns/angels/cyclops/phoenixses as you powerstack, and any of those don't really care about walls.

VMaiko said:
I still think that nerf logistics was a serious mistake, I no longer enjoy HotA as before.


The thing is, that if no skills are adjusted, only the same hero builds will exist. It's been rather refreshing to skip Logistics knowing it sometimes might even be the right play now. This wasn't the case in the past.


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VMaiko
VMaiko


Adventuring Hero
posted May 23, 2020 12:33 AM

Hourglass, for me, balance is not forcing other players to use the skills that were wasted in sod by improving them in HotA and harming the most useful ones so that they learn to play in a different way, each one wants to play as they wish, for that reason another large part still prefer to play Sod/Wog instead of HotA even if they keep adding more new content.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 23, 2020 01:03 AM

VMaiko I kind of agree. For many years this was the perfect MP build: Wisdom, Earth, Logistics, Air, Offense, Armorer and Tactics, one slot left for whatever. From the very beginning they introduced a pretty useful skill (one unimaginable) Scouting, while they reduced the over power of the one you basically can not learn, Necromancy. Now Mysticism is almost as good as Intelligence and not get Logistics less problematic. But I kind of like my SP build: Wisdom, Earth, (Air if DD and Fly allowed. Water if not, as I usually play), Logistics, Offense and Archery, never Armorer, sometimes Tactics or Pathfinding (again with or without depending on Fly and DD) and from all of those changes i've got a nerf to Logistics.
Without a Market of Time and with just eight slots, 27 useful skills will be a nightmare. Sometimes I feel like they are pushing us (single players) to WoG.
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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted May 23, 2020 09:17 AM
Edited by RerryR at 09:19, 23 May 2020.

bloodsucker said:

...
Without a Market of Time and with just eight slots, 27 useful skills will be a nightmare. Sometimes I feel like they are pushing us (single players) to WoG.


I feel quite the opposite, having 27 kinda equally useful skills is my definition of a good and balanced game and not a nightmare. I assume you mean the proces of choosing skills is what you dont like because you cant decide. But in reality that is what makes the game intetessting and adds the replay value.
I dont like to play a game where my goal is just to avoid getting bad secondary skills but that is the current situation since 10 years.
Its about time to change that for the HotA players.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 23, 2020 09:46 AM

I have to agree. Now, my preferences remain the same and I still want the same exact built. I guess yesterday when I made that comment I was already too confused by the lack of sleep or would have seen the contradiction...
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 23, 2020 10:03 AM

VMaiko said:
Hourglass, for me, balance is not forcing other players to use the skills that were wasted in sod by improving them in HotA and harming the most useful ones so that they learn to play in a different way.


You got me interested; what's your opinion of balance then?

I don't personally belive in "perfect balance", but if there's 28 unique skills in the game, there's something wrong with the system if around 1/3 of the skills you never want your hero to have, and then there are skills that are pretty much mandatory. This makes no sense to me. A game with this many RPG vibes in it should allow more diverse builds.

VMaiko said:

Each one wants to play as they wish, for that reason another large part still prefer to play Sod/Wog instead of HotA even if they keep adding more new content.


I don't think mentioning SoD here on HC very necessary. SoD is pretty much only played by people who haven't discovered modding possibilities or if they are revisiting the old campaings or scenarios. Usually, even the people who have played Hota for long but don't like the recent changes tend to go back for earlier versions of Hota, not for pure SoD.
And about Wog, well, sure there are a lot of players playing it, and in the end of to the day, you said yourself, each one wants to play as they wish. I'm not seeing why they even should somehow convince or "turn" wog players to play Hota instead. Wog (and the other platforms) will always be preferred over Hota by some people, and it's not going to change, and there's nothing wrong about that.

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syth
syth

Tavern Dweller
posted May 23, 2020 11:55 AM
Edited by syth at 12:30, 23 May 2020.

For me the logistics change was a very nice welcome towards balance as well as mysticism and estates.I find them quite usefull now and try to get it for my secondary heroes.

After those changes actually I see my friends building multiple heroes since one powerfull superman all jumpy singular hero cannot get everywhere anymore.(Still multi townportal is a bummer at this point)

Logistics, dimension door cap and slow change made it possible for us to return to game with some of our old friends actually.The game has still so much to offer with a better balance.No need to get stuck in nostalgia that much.

I hope townportal gets nerfed a bit and reliance of earth magic decreases.If HoTA team said they were just moding I wouldn't care  but they said they were interested in multiplayer balance so I think they want to hear opinions(not they have to implement it though).

From what I understand they want to do balancing with minimum asset changes(new graphics etc) and general feel.

Some spell balancing is next.Town portal and dimension door costing half movement could be a good step.Also like the idea that town portal should be colorless like magic arrow.

I strongly hope HoTA team gets good balance changes in the next patch reparing some unusefull skills and spells while bashing out no brainer ones.If you have multiple paths thats about strategy not running down a single path very fast thats racing

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 23, 2020 04:02 PM

I see a lot of jibber jabber, but did the HotA team come out with another update since my last visit? if not, do we have a general eta?

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted May 23, 2020 04:08 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 16:09, 23 May 2020.

fred79 said:
I see a lot of jibber jabber, but did the HotA team come out with another update since my last visit? if not, do we have a general eta?


Nope. At least only regarding your first question.
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted May 23, 2020 04:27 PM

thanks.

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JohnG
JohnG

Tavern Dweller
posted May 24, 2020 05:19 PM

How to fix the AI using dimension door? They take extreme long to do their turn. Especialy if more AI players have DD.They telepot, idle,teleport,idle.... Takes a few mins.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Making map for HotA then WoG
posted May 24, 2020 05:39 PM

JohnG said:
How to fix the AI using dimension door? They take extreme long to do their turn. Especialy if more AI players have DD.They telepot, idle,teleport,idle.... Takes a few mins.

By not letting the AI have the spell. Done by banning it.
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Mods I'm working on: Ashan to the Trashcan (last updated: May 26th)

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