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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted July 29, 2023 10:16 AM |
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Why are Cove heroes starting armies so weird?
They start with low amounts of nymphs, very high amounts of crew mates and high amounts of pirates...
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted July 30, 2023 10:42 AM |
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weilan said:
Phoenix4ever said:
Radio silence has become a HotA thing.
But yeah let's hope something happens before New Years.
They are mostly doing this for free so they don't really owe anything to anyone so don't expect them to give updates on a regular basis. From what I understand, Docent Picolan was the main person behind the project and after he is gone, the project is no longer the same so it's understandable that not much is going on.
I advise everyone expecting updates or something better, to start donating their life savings to the team until they have a several millions in budget so they can increase development speed.
why not open a patreon?
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2023 01:08 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Why are Cove heroes starting armies so weird?
They start with low amounts of nymphs, very high amounts of crew mates and high amounts of pirates...
I could swear the amount of starting crew mates have been changed along the way, and I remembered it being tied to the change relating towards their horde building, but the changelog in heroes wiki doesn't support this, so guess I'm simply wrong.
Nymph starting amount is on point, as they reflect pixies and such creatures exactly. The pirates are perhaps around one unit off from the expected(?) amount, but I agree that the amount of starting crew mates is indeed high. Hota buffed the amount starting of gargoyles and harpies, so when comparing to them, the numerous crew mates seem less out of place.
Now, personally I don't have an issue with slightly stronger starting armies (in general, not talking just about Cove). Starting armies pretty much determinate how many strong openings there are for certain town. Now, since the amount of crew mates is so high, Derek is suddenly a viable starting option. Mimic the number of starting dwarfs and walking dead, and see the faith of Ufretin and Straker.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 02, 2023 02:03 PM |
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No crew mate starting amount was never changed, but their horde building in towns was nerfed at some point. (So they used to get even more crew mates than now.)
Yeah I don't really agree with HotA changing starting armies though, except maybe imps and gnolls to be at least a little bit viable if you main Ignatius or Drakon. (But as I said before level 1 creature specialists suck, except for Galthran. Well their specialty suck, their starting skills and army might be decent.)
What do you mean about Ufretin and Straker?, are you saying they are good heroes?
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted August 02, 2023 03:43 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
What do you mean about Ufretin and Straker?, are you saying they are good heroes?
No, I meant the exact opposite . Ufretin especially has been the running joke in the MP community, and Straker's position isn't much better. If these heroes would have better armies, they could become more viable starting options. However, now they spawn with just only a handful of units, making them inferior to the town's normal starting armies. And sadly, that basically breaks these heroes; their time to shine would be in the early game, but since that ain't the case, they don't really serve much of purpose.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 02, 2023 04:24 PM |
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Okay that makes more sense and I can agree with that. (I don't understand why HotA nerfed starting elves either, Rampart is already one of the worst towns.)
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted August 02, 2023 04:36 PM |
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Because HotA is MP, so the game must be different and fun.. No allowed the same hero, skill, etc Thus they nerfed the best.. How did it start? Some said run & hit, etc And then banned.. But not enough! Yes HotA has been born! Only I guess..
And you can play without Zombies.. Prove your skill.. Choose Straker! Remember Teleport..
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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weilan
Known Hero
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posted August 03, 2023 02:27 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Okay that makes more sense and I can agree with that. (I don't understand why HotA nerfed starting elves either, Rampart is already one of the worst towns.)
Maybe because Rampart is my favorite town (due to unit lineup, theme and feeling), but I don't think Rampart are one of the worst, sure Dungeon, Necropolis and Conflux may be better, but I think Rampart can be somewhere around 4th or 5th place in terms of power.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 03, 2023 03:28 PM |
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As a Rampart fan are'nt you disappointed with less elves in HotA then?
All druids except Elleshar suck, rangers really want to learn Archery or already have even though they have only 1 fragile ranged unit.
Dendroids are superslow and Gold Dragons are horrible, worst designed level 7 imo, but that is not HotA's fault.
I like Rampart thematically and they got the best town music, but I think it is one of the worst towns honestly.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted August 03, 2023 04:04 PM |
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Thus creature destruction and loss.. 
In the WoG, Rampart got a Faerie Dragon or Diamond Dragon, depend on like and taste matter.. When magic vs might.. One script still Sylvan Centaur to Rampart.. Some thinks OP! Necropolis got only mummies.. Remember Rampart vs Necropolis..
Rampart  Archery? Not Dwarves, but Titans.. I see you used to the same troops from town and joined Rampart neutrals, but it isn't the game.. RoE taught mixed troops.. So many players are more RoE than expansion spirit/mood..
HotA doesn't use a over 8lvl.. Yes mixed troops.. HotA is RoE something way..
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted August 03, 2023 05:40 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Okay that makes more sense and I can agree with that. (I don't understand why HotA nerfed starting elves either, Rampart is already one of the worst towns.)
I agree that the change could be reverted. Many things have happened since this change was made. Apparently the nerf was done even before the English release.
weilan said:
Maybe because Rampart is my favorite town (due to unit lineup, theme and feeling), but I don't think Rampart are one of the worst, sure Dungeon, Necropolis and Conflux may be better, but I think Rampart can be somewhere around 4th or 5th place in terms of power.
I think the 5th place would be pretty accurate. Sure the power varies in different setups, but on average, the mid-tier is where the Rampart should be placed. In Hota, Necro and Conflux still remain on the top due their incredible consistency, and Dungeon is also one of the top dogs given all the tricks provided by their town. Next is probably Castle due their access of Stables, they spawn on grass and have a good line-up of creatures.
Rampart has pristine early game with Centaur captains and elves, and while their tier 7 dwelling is pretty much a no-go in the early game, the tree dwelling is basically free, and Unicorns usually co-operate and it's pretty safe dwelling to take down as well. Since the Ivor is quite heavily nerfed in Hota, you can go for more late-game suited hero in pre-game selection without basically losing any tempo at all.
The next 4 towns - Tower, Cove, Stronghold and Fortress - I've hard time ranking. They feel very template/map specific as they don't really feel that consistent as the 5 towns above them. Sadly, I still think the Inferno - despite being one of all time favorites, and despite being very generously buffed in Hota, and the fact that Magogs are super satisfying to play in Hota - ranks the lowest in general. Lava is such a wasteland, the dwelling are really hard to take down during week one, and the they don't really get much help out from their town. Imo the lava should have a highlands-treatment.
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weilan
Known Hero
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posted August 03, 2023 07:33 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
As a Rampart fan are'nt you disappointed with less elves in HotA then?
All druids except Elleshar suck, rangers really want to learn Archery or already have even though they have only 1 fragile ranged unit.
Dendroids are superslow and Gold Dragons are horrible, worst designed level 7 imo, but that is not HotA's fault.
I like Rampart thematically and they got the best town music, but I think it is one of the worst towns honestly.
Honestly, I don't play competitively or online much, last time I played online was probably in 2020. So since I play only for my personal enjoyment, I view HoTA only as additional content and some rebalancing, I like that Inferno suck less, even though I don't play them and that Necropolis is less OP, who I don't play either.
When I play Rampart, I usually pick Mephala or if I want to challenge myself - some Rampart hero that has nothing good about themselves, like Melodia who has Fortune and it doesn't affect anything.
Hourglass said:
I think the 5th place would be pretty accurate. Sure the power varies in different setups, but on average, the mid-tier is where the Rampart should be placed. In Hota, Necro and Conflux still remain on the top due their incredible consistency, and Dungeon is also one of the top dogs given all the tricks provided by their town. Next is probably Castle due their access of Stables, they spawn on grass and have a good line-up of creatures.
Rampart has pristine early game with Centaur captains and elves, and while their tier 7 dwelling is pretty much a no-go in the early game, the tree dwelling is basically free, and Unicorns usually co-operate and it's pretty safe dwelling to take down as well. Since the Ivor is quite heavily nerfed in Hota, you can go for more late-game suited hero in pre-game selection without basically losing any tempo at all.
The next 4 towns - Tower, Cove, Stronghold and Fortress - I've hard time ranking. They feel very template/map specific as they don't really feel that consistent as the 5 towns above them. Sadly, I still think the Inferno - despite being one of all time favorites, and despite being very generously buffed in Hota, and the fact that Magogs are super satisfying to play in Hota - ranks the lowest in general. Lava is such a wasteland, the dwelling are really hard to take down during week one, and the they don't really get much help out from their town. Imo the lava should have a highlands-treatment.
I also feel like Rampart is in the upper tier, but not the best.
Tower is good, but very expensive, Stronghold is only good for Might, Fortress is very slow and defensive and Cove for me feels as if Castle and Rampart were fused into one - it's neither good or bad, I used to like Cove for the novelty for a few months, but I don't play it anymore, it is just OK enough to not call it useless or OP. I don't think Cove stands out with anything at all.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted August 04, 2023 06:05 PM |
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Conflux isn't OP.. But if you are using Sprites, Strom Elementals and Phoenixes.. Then OP, but HotA nerfed Diplomacy.. One Lexiav used/added Ice Elementals.. Not bad! Remember don't update Earth Elementals, etc So you have a money.. If your opinion/knowledge Conflux is OP.. Prove your map against boss AI.. This game time you can't resurrect your troops against minor bosses.. So I will test a map..
The same thing Dwarves, Trees.. Elves aren't great too.. Only Silver Pegasi and Gold Dragons.. Change troops, thank later..
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted August 04, 2023 09:00 PM |
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I got 2 academical degrees in that time waiting for that town by now.  could easiely be 4 til release... tho I don't study anymore 
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luk3Z
Hired Hero
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posted August 05, 2023 01:29 PM |
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Edited by luk3Z at 13:31, 05 Aug 2023.
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Highest Sum of AI Value * Growth +Castle (column G)
H3
Conflux 100450
Rampart 84888
Castle 84071
Tower 82332
Dungeon 80679
Inferno 78139
Necropolis 72214
Fortress 71946
Stronghold 68284
HotA
Conflux 88549
Rampart 84888
Castle 84653
Cove 83197
Tower 82332
Dungeon 80679
Inferno 80119
Necropolis 72214
Fortress 71946
Stronghold 68284
AI Value summary:
https://app.mediafire.com/wprbdkp31aoel
https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/AI_value
https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Army_strength
Notice:
Fortress & Stronghold probably worst towns in the game.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted August 05, 2023 01:42 PM |
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luk3Z said:
Notice:
Fortress & Stronghold probably worst towns in the game.
Lol. If only life could be as simple as this game appers to be...
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted August 05, 2023 01:47 PM |
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@luk3Z That comparison seems completely useless. There is more to a town than AI Value...
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted August 05, 2023 02:09 PM |
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A good knowledge.. I never counted or noticed..
Ok random map brought many Pixies/Sprites and Air/Strom Elementals.. Inteus hasn't Pathfinding nor Logistics than the future hero named Neela with 1,5k Sprites, etc.. Ok only Inteus spoke and joined to 73 Behemoths.. Hmm my opinion Behemoths are strong.. An easy Sprires, Stroms and Phoenixes.. What else? Bloodlust gave 2k Sprites got more Attack bonuses, so killed fast.. But I change Behemoths later.. Another what? Where are Rampart neutrals? No idea about random GIANT/ERA map.. But your fact/source for mapmakers So AI would play easier..
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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MurlocAggroB
Hired Hero
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posted August 05, 2023 05:12 PM |
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luk3Z said:
Fortress & Stronghold probably worst towns in the game.
Fortress and Stronghold take a hit on AI value because their tier 7 creatures are slow and melee, which are much easier for AI armies to deal with so are treated as less of a threat. Both factions have major advantages beyond that, however. Namely, both Beastmasters and Barbarians are great hero classes, and they can get high-tier creatures really early (Wyverns and Behemoths) thanks to those dwellings having unusually simple build paths.
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weilan
Known Hero
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posted August 06, 2023 11:15 AM |
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MurlocAggroB said:
luk3Z said:
Fortress & Stronghold probably worst towns in the game.
Fortress and Stronghold take a hit on AI value because their tier 7 creatures are slow and melee
Aren't all tier 7 creatures melee except for Titans?
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