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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2014 02:46 AM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
*rolleyes* Compared to Town Portal, Slow, Implosion, Meteor Shower, Resurrection or Haste, Fly, Dimension Door for full map domination it is indeed weak. I also talk about "Expert Magic" in combat. Sure Prayer is strong, Bless, Blind is usful too. I don't complain about that its just you neither need water or fire mastery, thats all. Also Fire was intended to deal most damage, but... it doesn't in an ammount I'm pleased with.
Troop Experience = simple Solution to buff bullsnow/useless units like Lizardman or even make the gameplay somem ore interesting, Dragon's Spell Immunity also could be earned through EP, also Leech ability for Vampire Lords.
Next time ask before u judge.
While troop experience might add fun value to epic standalone WoG single player maps it would just add unneccessary complexity to casual single player and pvp games - complexity and annoying clutteredness in terms of gameplay.
Think of the considerable impact on balance this would have. How would this beef up "balance"?
There is no easy fix for "balance issues" (most of which are closely related to particular circumstances). Tighten one screw and see two turning loose.
Every change's impact is unpredictable to a certain degree and has to stand the test.
As the crew already stated, they will take care of blatant issues in a not too much invasive way.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2014 02:53 AM |
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Galaad said:
Salamandre said:
I always considered Heroes as a "game" where the fact that you can win due to a flaw or extreme luck is...part of the game and is fun.
This.
Exactly. No rules whatsoever ... rules.
Trying to exterminate the chance factor is of no avail.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2014 03:27 AM |
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Its just about some suggestions, thats all, what is relevant or irrelevant isn't my choice since I'm not in developer team.
Sure, you may not have all spells every game thats true, but after 4 weeks on a map you got tons of ressources without any meaning except the possibility to make gold out of it or build. Also you have in most cases at least 2 towns in week 2-4 with another pool of spells inside.
Ladder: Tactic is the same for every player, at least I haven't watched anything new for quite a while except tons of micromangement with swapping units. Rest depending on luck Spells/Map/Artifacts and starting town what tactic is played in detail.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2014 03:48 PM |
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@gatecrasher:
I like complex games, maybe thats my problem  . A game can't be complex enough, also the pool of possibilities is quite nice in complex games to find some new strategies. For example "Guild Wars 1" was such a complex game, skills that was too gut got nerfed, bad ones buffed to enrich the game over time, the developers watched the PvP Games to define the balance. Thats progress ensures quality.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2014 04:08 PM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
Ladder: Tactic is the same for every player, at least I haven't watched anything new for quite a while except tons of micromangement with swapping units. Rest depending on luck Spells/Map/Artifacts and starting town what tactic is played in detail.
Hi,
since you love complex games (as i do), you might like these ideas i've already implemented:
Tactics + Offence = AT bonus for aligned melee troops for attacker depending on skills level, speciality, and distance moved.
Tactics + Archery = same for shooter
Tactics + Armorer = DF bonus for all aligned troops depending on skills level, speciality and distance _not_ moved (i.e. remaining movement points. Idea: Have time to "dig in" and fortify)
Tactics + Pathfinding = Speed bonus for all aligned troops (both sides)
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 29, 2014 06:44 PM |
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So this would be a Tactics Rework? What if you got 3 or four combinations with tactics? for dungeon its quite powerful (2 Shooter, rest Melee + 1 Dragon), Gunnar starts with tactics for example.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 30, 2014 08:12 AM |
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Hi,
it's not only a tactics rework 
But you're right, a hero could have more than 1 combination. In this case the attacking hero could have f.ex. tactics, offence and archery. So he gets the bonus for all stacks of his alignment. The tactics/armory combo has no effect for attacker. And the tactics/offence and tactics/archery combos have no effect for defender. Only the tactics/pathfinding combo has an effect for both sides.
And btw. the bonus depends on movement. So if the attacker does not move far he gets nearly nothing. And if the defender has no remaining movement points he gets nothing. So movement adds a completely new meta-level to tactics. And, as could easily be seen logistics and speed artifacts can help increasing this bonus.
But otherwise you're right. The current focus is not balancing but adding more strategical and tactical depth. I'll think more of balancing later.
One of the ideas to partially counter this is to reduce initial and remaining movement points after a battle. Not to zero, but close to.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 30, 2014 01:24 PM |
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At least i like it better than that movement grid from original tactics before battle. The new component form crossover/interacting skills also looks promising to "build" a hero. For example the same could be included for learning/scouting/intelligence. scounting + patfhinding = 100% movement on every terrain for example instead of 75%. So scouting could be a new meta-skill. In that case a "market of time" is nescessary for character building
Also: for tactics also ballistic and/or artillery could be added with some buffs.
Anyways I think this Stuff belongs to a WoG thread.
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Siegfried
Famous Hero
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posted October 30, 2014 01:54 PM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
Anyways I think this Stuff belongs to a WoG thread.
You're right. Maybe i should start a new thread? Just don't know exactly where.
Btw, i'll upload the script this weekend for anyone to experiment with.
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Pepebotijo
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 30, 2014 08:34 PM |
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Hi. 
I want to share with you a couple of ideas to HOTA. Don´t know if they are possible to apply.
-Fog of war in the same way than H4. Information in real time is not very realistic in a medieval world.
-The introduction of heroes in forts (outside cities). So you can defend these strategic places with troops supported by any hero. I never spend money to defend forts because enemy heroes are able to conquest them easily.
Thanks for your hard work in the awesome HOTA 
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 30, 2014 08:52 PM |
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You mean Sieges for Border Gates?
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Pepebotijo
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 30, 2014 09:19 PM |
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P4R4D0X0N said:
You mean Sieges for Border Gates?
Yes. Sorry for my poor english.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted October 31, 2014 12:16 AM |
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I take it that the technical term for what you are referring to would be "Garrison". Yeah, I always wonder why there aren't Fort walls (like when defending a town with Fort built) on the battlefield when defending one.
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ericoz
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2014 06:46 AM |
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Edited by ericoz at 07:00, 31 Oct 2014.
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Ok Salamandre I will take that you weren't sober when you replied that.
Sorrow is not vital, will never be. 15 years playing this game and it never had any use in any of the maps/campaigns. It's a level 4 that should be a level 1-3. Not even in a single player game. It's a waste of turn to cast the spell, it reduces morale only by 2(at advanced to expert...) and by the time you get to build your magic guild level 4 I'm pretty sure it's mid game when everyone amassed morale/luck artifacts. It's utter useless. Just like fire shield, magic mirror, slayer, all protection from elements spells... They are all bad.
If you don't want to compare those to the good ones, they shouldn't be on the same level... The chances of getting them are equal.
Eagle Eye will never be vital, nor Learning, nor First Aid, nor myticism, nor sorcery. These are all must-skip once you realize how subpar they are.
None of those bad eagle eye bonus artifacts, reduction of surrending cost, magic resistance bonus, archery bonus, spell points recovery, or those that increases duration of the spells are useful either. They are all trash. If you get to find them some use, it's on a very, very situational game. I'm talking about 1 in 100+. And if you're playing single player you'll probably restart the game.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 31, 2014 06:54 AM |
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You can have your opinion, based on your experience. I have mine. But accusing me of being drunk when I write here is a matter of education, which you obviously lack. I am not used to argue at this level, sorry.
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Era II mods and utilities
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ericoz
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2014 07:04 AM |
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Edited by ericoz at 07:05, 31 Oct 2014.
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I apologize, didn't mean to offend.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 31, 2014 08:26 AM |
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What interests me is the creative part of the game, not the common used one. The editor is easy to use, thus we have a billion of mediocre user made scenarios where we can prevail over AI just using haste and slow. But what you call situational game, I call wise using of the game resources. Try play Wayfarer, Way home, Metataxer Revenge or the most recent, Rise of the King Sun scenarios and you will be surprised how well excellent players doubled by skilled mapmakers will know to create riddles where all game resources are used.
Personally I find only a skill to be useless, because maths never lie: learning. Other than that, the so called useless skills/spells-while not having equal importance-have their use, given that some mapmakers meditate a bit on Heroes mechanics, not only throw 2 days work and call it map.
Sorrow is easily invalidated by an artifact but if you don't have that artifact, it is vital for long battles against legions of slow neutrals. The difference between having morale or not having morale is no longer needed to be explained. Fire shield is fortunately considered in AI calculations when trying to prioritize which stack to hit, thus AI will prioritize avoiding the stack with the biggest retaliation damage: in this case the one with fire shield. Magic mirror: very useful against faeries dragons or against sorcery specialists level 6000+ (yes they exist in mapmaking, afore mentioned maps). Slayer: halves the battle time, and reduce your gaming time by hours on epic maps. Protection from elements: will halve implosion damage, as well as all other damaging spells, how can say is useless?
Quote:
None of those bad eagle eye bonus artifacts, reduction of surrending cost, magic resistance bonus, archery bonus, spell points recovery, or those that increases duration of the spells are useful either.
I play only challenging maps, so I use them often. The lone knight map final boss without resistance bonus? Archery bonus from artifacts is +30% damage, this is like saying that offense is useless. Tower priority. Reduction of surrendering cost: hit and runners will claim is their preferred artifact. Spell points recovery: Dragon Slayer AB campaign requires it.
So for me those are not "situational" games, but how the game should look if the people invested a bit more energy and creativity when working on (all those features are abundant in all of my maps but didn't quote them for obvious reasons).
But if one plays single random maps then probably he will find them useless, yeah. Anyway, my arguments were only about single player style.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Macron1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 31, 2014 08:40 AM |
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ericoz said:
None of those bad eagle eye bonus artifacts, reduction of surrending cost, magic resistance bonus, archery bonus, spell points recovery, or those that increases duration of the spells are useful either. They are all trash. If you get to find them some use, it's on a very, very situational game. I'm talking about 1 in 100+. And if you're playing single player you'll probably restart the game.
Diplomacy is a must have skill on L/XL maps, same goes for mysticism (did you ever used dimension door and been locked cause of no mana left)? Altrough i'll increase mana spell points restoring (to 20-30 points in Expert, or some percents from total mana points).
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 31, 2014 09:28 AM |
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Mysticism heavily depends on the availability of Magic Wells and Mage Guilds in towns. If they're scarce (like for instance the final map of the Dragon Slayer campaign in AB), Mysticism is a godsend.
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Pepebotijo
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 31, 2014 10:48 AM |
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Is there any plans to limit the number of troops a hero can lead? I think it would be a good idea to avoid the lonely superhero. HOMM needs the real cooperation of other heroes (not errand boys) to win games.
Some wargames use stack rules to penalize outnumbered units located in one hexagon. Every unit has a stack value (ie infantry 1; tanks 20; guns 5; etc.). Once the stack value of the unit reaches 100, there´s a penalty in both attack and defense (stack 120=-20%; 140=-40%).
Stack value of 200% means absolute chaos: Too many units in a small area, so they are not able to fight or defend themselves. In other words, units with a stack of 50-100 are many; with stack 101-199 are too many and 200+ are out of control.
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Las batallas contra las mujeres
son las únicas que se ganan
huyendo.
NAPOLEÓN BONAPARTE
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