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Salamandre
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posted December 13, 2015 10:08 PM |
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What you are not sure about? I am not talking about the ethical choice, far right or not far right, I am talking about democracy which exist because there are rules supporting its mechanics.
In an election, there are rules. Those rules are that every party who did 10% or more in first round must represent at second round. Or they retired to make common front to far right. This is not electing one politic idea, but witch hunting. This does not represents a better politic to follow, but only political fiddlings. Party X is making 30% at first round, party Y 20% and party Z 15%. They must all go to second round, but leader of party Y retires and tell to his voters to vote party Z, after the leader of party Z promises him to do same thing is another region. This is democracy?
France is not US. There is no freedom of speech in France. You can go in prison or lose your nationality over a bunch of things you simply said. So, if one party has INDEED racist comments or acts, they would be dismantled in the second and leaders put in jail. If anyone cloned Trump in France, he would be in prison by now. This of course, is horrible and not democratic at all, people should be allowed to talk their mind, because it is the ONLY realistic way to take one country's temperature and figure what's really going. You can't ban something then pretend it doesn't exist. It will continue growing and will explode in your face one day, bigger than ever.
Witch hunting.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 13, 2015 10:34 PM |
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Salamandre said:
France is not US. There is no freedom of speech in France. You can go in prison or lose your nationality over a bunch of things you simply said. So, if one party has INDEED racist comments or acts, they would be dismantled in the second and leaders put in jail. If anyone cloned Trump in France, he would be in prison by now.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you've followed Trump at all, do you have a specific quote in mind where you think he would actually be put in jail?
For example, if a candidate said in a talk after a terrorist attack that we should temporarily close our borders to Muslims, you're saying they would go to jail for it?
I'm just curious because I know Europe has some small minority radical right parties (much more right than La Pen) and I know for a fact that they've said more controversial ideas than that. The British National Party (before it fell apart from inner-fighting after 2010) wanted to pay immigrants to permanently resettle back in their home countries in order to purify the country.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blizzardboy
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posted December 13, 2015 10:43 PM |
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Off-topic to this:
I read a comment that explained why Trump's idea is more dangerous than at first thought, because he said we have to ban Muslims from the borders "until we figure out what the hell is going on". Although the policy is already prejudiced by itself, it also has zero time table attached to it, which is another way of saying that he would want to put the ban up, and then there would be no saying when the ban would go down.
The good news is that a US president doesn't actually have the power to do what Trump said we should do without theoretically getting revoked by the legislature and the Supreme Court. You would need all three branches of government to go to hell.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Salamandre
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posted December 13, 2015 10:44 PM |
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The temporary muslims ban is nothing, I also listened to that speech and he had arguments, not just throw hate. But he also said that latinos coming in are rapists, and that mexican government send only the killers because they want to get rid of them. For such claims he would be prosecuted in France and lose any right to represent the people.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted December 13, 2015 11:02 PM |
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Minion said: I'm not so sure about that. A three way race is always horrible. That is why Republicans fear Trumps independent run so much. It would GUARANTEE a Democratic nominee victory because Republicans would split their vote.
Assuming no primary GOP candidate has the majority after the primary elections there will be a brokered convention. If the "outsider" candidates have more votes than the establishment and party bosses do back room deals to put forward an establishment candidate as the nominee it will be the end of the GOP.
But I think the will be a clear winner of the primaries.
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Revelation
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 14, 2015 02:57 AM |
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It's not why Republicans fear Trump. Well, in my opinion.
Trump's new wave of "first honest politician ever" can earn him votes from all demographics and ideologies. He won't split the Republicans in two. On the contrary. He's gonna soak up votes from other sources as well.
No no, what the established order fears from Trump is the new era he can create. Other presidential candidate in the future ( 4 , 8 , 12 years later, etc ) might take on his example and be a honest type of politician. Honest meaning less lies, and thus less ability to lie from the established order. And the current, established order does not want to lose that ability to lie and fool it's citizens. If Trump is elected, you can be sure that the current people in power will have 4 years to work their asses off and create as many problems that they can blame on Trump as possible to discredit him.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 14, 2015 03:41 AM |
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Trump would definitely soak the vast majority of his votes from the Republican party. An independent run would not split down the two parties.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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artu
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 14, 2015 04:46 AM |
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Kanya, I think you are mistaking being blunt with being honest. And I think being blunt like that is indeed a calculated move, "that's what my average voter would want to hear, plain and simple." I wouldnt assume he talks about Muslim people in the same tone, when he's dealing business with AKP tycoons here and building the Trump Towers in Istanbul.
Trump is the worst kind of hypocrite, America's global politics and foreign policy can overthrow regimes, create power vacuums and chaos, directly or indirectly provoke ethnic war etc, but when all of that results in immigration, "our people come first." Fine, drill for oil only in Texas then, and it's not Syrian corporations that determine how the global economy will play out and which backwater countries will eat the dust.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted December 14, 2015 06:16 AM |
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Or maybe everyone is doing the same mistake as I. Either way, Donald Trump will protect the Americans from Mexicanoterrorism!
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Drakon-Deus
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Qapla'
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posted December 14, 2015 12:05 PM |
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I can just watch and at the most comment. It's up to all Americans to decide...
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted December 15, 2015 03:43 PM |
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Edited by Minion at 15:45, 15 Dec 2015.
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@Blizzardboy
Forgot to post these earlier. There are several things that wouldn't fly by European standards in what Trump has said. For example Trump sating he would kill the families of terrorist. Any deliberate attacks aimed against civilians is a war crime. No way around it. That would be totally inexcusable in (most parts of) Europe.
Also about BBC, at least BBC has to cover all parties equally/proportionally during an election. There are very strict rules on airtime and on political advertising budgets and so on. So I would say it is vastly better than what many think. In addition BOTH the government and the opposition claim that BBC is working for them Which means it is at least doing somewhat ok job because neither is happy.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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Salamandre
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posted December 15, 2015 05:32 PM |
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No, in Europe there isn't opposition except the far right. This is why BBC and all important medias are sold to dominant power, which is both right and left. Because Right and Left do exactly the same politics, they just call them differently and love to grudge each other on semantics.
The only different politics variants come from far left and far right. And usually those are seriously bashed by medias because they tend reveal the other's lies.
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Drakon-Deus
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Qapla'
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posted December 16, 2015 12:39 AM |
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Salamandre said: No, in Europe there isn't opposition except the far right. This is why BBC and all important medias are sold to dominant power, which is both right and left. Because Right and Left do exactly the same politics, they just call them differently and love to grudge each other on semantics.
The only different politics variants come from far left and far right. And usually those are seriously bashed by medias because they tend reveal the other's lies.
Yes. And it seems that America is going down that route too...
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blizzardboy
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posted December 16, 2015 01:10 AM |
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Insofar as this refugee crisis/fear of terrorism, America moreso. Muslim sentiments are much worse in the US than Europe, except for maybe Italy which I'm told has pretty powerful anti-Muslims sentiments. The fact that such a large percentage of Americans aren't balking at Trump's comments is kind of pathetic.
I think the two big factors are:
1) War. Justified or not, there's quite a few families out there that have had loved ones injured/killed in the ME. My brother-in-law was killed in Iraq, though it's not something I ever took personally. I think my parents did.
2) Less than 1% Muslim population concentrated on the coasts. For most of America they have no personal connection to any Muslims so they're easier to subconsciously dehumanize and villainize on the TV, which jumps at every story possible.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted December 16, 2015 01:17 AM |
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War has always been a big issue... except in certain, more calm times.
And when it wasn't Muslims, it was the problem of racism within America.
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fred79
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posted December 16, 2015 01:23 AM |
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blizzardboy said: The fact that such a large percentage of Americans aren't balking at Trump's comments is kind of pathetic.
if you've seen his fans on t.v., you'd see that most of them are dumbass rednecks. which is odd, because i didn't think we had so many in the states. they must've been breeding far more than i realized...
*grabs super-soaker filled with Raid*
*80's metal plays as fred's "gearing up for battle" montage plays on a widescreen t.v.*
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blizzardboy
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posted December 16, 2015 01:27 AM |
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Trump's voters are older and poorer, yes. I think youth make up less than 5% of his supporters.
You see Fred, this is why being an elitist snow isn't always such a bad thing.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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fred79
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posted December 16, 2015 01:42 AM |
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blizzardboy said: You see Fred, this is why being an elitist snow isn't always such a bad thing.
i think being a tyrant is better. a tyrant at the head would better motivate the commoners for a greater unifying purpose. even if that unifying purpose is shredding him like a tiger would a cat's scratching post.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 16, 2015 04:22 PM |
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fred79
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posted December 16, 2015 05:12 PM |
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