|
|
Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:35 PM |
|
|
JotunLogi said:
What meant with Ashn- it does not try to deeply analize people and give psychologiacal portrait and I find it good- cause it is easy to overdo it.
The problem is that Ashan is trying to deeply analyze its characters and give a psychological portrait in its attempts to be Game of Thrones the game, but does such a bad job that there is no visible depth at all.
|
|
Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:36 PM |
|
|
Gryphs said:
I was getting this vibe watching him talk about it in the interview.
LizardWarrior said:
but that's what he's saying between the lines, or at least what it looks like
Well, everybody hears what he wants to hear IMO... But I won't say it's not a possibility 
Btw, do "we" hate Ashan, the storylines or all of them together? If it's storylines (oh horrible H5) we need the writers to blame ^^
@Galaad Are you trying to hypnotise me? Hey, I have skull-face, those things don't work on Necromancers.
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:37 PM |
|
Edited by verriker at 21:38, 02 Apr 2015.
|
Sandro400 said:
And I didn't say that you say that it was a lie ^^ I don't think it's a hypocrisy.
then there was no need to let me know which parts you felt to be true lol
it's clearly a hypocrisy because his own universe has been riddled with inconsistencies and flat-out confusing crap from the start
Sandro400 said:
It was said... when H5 was released, no? Or even before that? If Erwan would say those words today as well, then it's a hypocrisy in my book. But he acknowledges some of his mistakes. Hey, that's a progress. Better than "my creation is the masterpiece, screw you all".
you accused people of condemning Ashan out of a bias towards Axeoth, so there's your fair and square answer to that, Erwin himself started the comparisons to Axeoth and all I do is react lol
I'm not here to applaud gradual progress after failures we could all see coming a mile away, I respect you if you have low standards, but just respect the rest of us in turn
I'm here to see these simple promises fulfilled of a phantom universe that "feels strong and feels real", without "the gentle, light-hearted fantasy of Axeoth", where "all of the characters have legitimate motivations and credible mindsets", and where "I'll gonna ask for more" lol ^^
after all, "too bad" may not be "screw you all", but hey, it's progress lol  
____________
|
|
Sligneris
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:38 PM |
|
|
LizardWarrior said:
but that's what he's saying between the lines, or at least what it looks like 
How did you expect him to act? He defended his own creation, it's something natural. Do you expect him to start believing that the world he created is garbage that should be disposed of, because a bunch of guys on the internet say so?
I actually admire that he handles it this well. He doesn't get put down too easily, despite people outright hating him. I... wouldn't take it that lightly, should I be in his situation, quite honest.
verriker said:
it's clearly a hypocrisy because his own universe has been riddled with inconsistencies and flat-out confusing crap from the start
What are these inconsistencies? Maybe I'll be able to clear some of them up.
Sandro400 said:
Btw, do "we" hate Ashan, the storylines or all of them together? If it's storylines (oh horrible H5) we need the writers to blame ^^
I actually believe that Heroes 5 had great storyline, but a poor execution.
|
|
NamelessOrder
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:38 PM |
|
|
Galaad said:
+ Did you see any proof? I didn't.
there's a 900k+ accounts on EU server (i think EU server also encompass most of Africa and Asia except Russia and China) which indicates around 1m copies sold (not every game sold is played later) so 2m copies is sth definetely believe. How many of them were sold at full price of $40 - that's another question. Mind you that the franchise is really popular in central europe where standard price is half the price in US/western europe (H6 and H6:SoD cost $20 in Poland). As far as i know games are even cheaper in poorer countries (Russia/Brazil etc.).
____________
Uplay: ZergRusher | H6: Thoughts on duels | DoC: Cassa
|
|
Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:39 PM |
|
|
Galaad said:
/drools/ ....
...
...
..
.
I ... must ... get ... the cheese...
|
|
Sandro400
Promising
Supreme Hero
Shadow of Death
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:45 PM |
|
|
verriker said:
then there was no need to let me know which parts you felt to be true lol
Is there something wrong with elaborating? 
verriker said:
you accused people of condemning Ashan out of a bias towards Axeoth, so there's your fair and square answer to that,
I accused "people", not you. People is a vey vague term and I don't I won't find a huge chunk of fans who hate Ashan just because it's not the Old Universe  So, why you took it so personally, even digged the archive, mmm?
Btw, you still don't tell me why you consider Erwan the creator of M&M, double agent! I've revealed you! 
verriker said:
I respect you if you have low standards, but just respect me in turn lol
You respect me? Wow, that's what I call a real progress ^_^ Standards, btw, are a subjective term.
verriker said:
I'm here to see these simple promises fulfilled of a phantom universe
Oh please, you're here for the same reason why I'm here
---------------------
Ok, I've reached my post limit, have fun here boys (and girls)! And I exposed Verriker as erwanized-double agent, beware of him!*
*'tis a joke ofc, but who knows... he has excellent cover...
Btw, JotunLogi, I think you're a prophet. Heed my words, but please, let your next prediction be more... optimistic ^_^
____________
Let's play poker game, lich-style!
|
|
Sligneris
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:47 PM |
|
|
Ow, a new page... now my post on the previous one is unlikely to be read...
Quote:
Sadly, M&M: Heroes 7, in spite of the fact that its production was extremely chap, has not sold well and it has made a loss. it is highly unprobable that the next part will be produced
But... Heroes 7 wasn't even released yet...?
Quote:
Sadly, M&M X Legacy, in spite of the fact that its production was extremely chap, has not sold well and it has made a loss. it is highly unprobable that the next part will be produced
Edit: My bad, I have written M&M: Heroes 7 and meant M&M X Legacy, my bad. I have fixed it
Yup, I heard that statement as well - a shame, but that's how it is. I'd love to see some Heroes 3 HD figures as well, but I suspect it didn't sell well either - which is probably why we're unlikely to get any future H3 remakes. They tested the waters and there was no interest... so it's likely getting scrapped as well. 
|
|
JotunLogi
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:48 PM |
|
|
M&M: Heroes 6 has sold well and has made profit- more than 1,5 or 2 mln copies have been sold. Info- Erwan Le Breton himself.
Sadly, M&M X Legacy, in spite of the fact that its production was extremely cheap, has not sold well and it has made a loss. it is highly unprobable that the next part will be produced
The problem with M&M: Heroes 6 is that it has damaged the reputation of the series due to its technical stability and also has raged many older fans due to some ideas. By that it could some how affect the future sales of its successor.
Ashan rather not analizes characters but gives lazy reasons behind ther behaviour- I am fine with it, I prefer rather simple or just not overcomplicated protagonists (antagonists not always . The problem is all this ppathos and feeling how it tries to be high, important- yeah, end of world, it changes, the moment that shapes the history. Unique moment number #4501. Convincing ;/
P.s. my 100th comment, I am proud of myself
Edit: My bad, I have written M&M: Heroes 7 and meant M&M X Legacy, my bad. I have fixed it
Edit: I think that Heroes of Might and Magic 3 hd has not sold that bad- in many countries it is quite popular (in Poland at least) and many older fans (and some newer) have given it a try. What is more, android and tablet options are attractive to many people so it can be more popular that it seems to be. Besides, its producion is rather cheap (well, that is what I think). If expansions will bbe in hd- hard to say, maybe- cause together there would be less profit and higher risk of loss
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 09:59 PM |
|
|
JotunLogi said:
'she doesn't want to be in charge and the game explore how being thrust into a role of leadership against her will impacts her not only on a personal level, but also what this means for this blooming nation as a whole'- just no.
just yes, this is exactly what happens because on several occasions she came this close to giving the kingdom over to Gavin Magnus and his nefarious hypnosis plan lol
JotunLogi said:
There is no interaction between her and her subordinates,
lol well that's not true, see any of the tens of dialogues with Tharj, or Solmyr, the entire map 5 where she has to reluctantly turn against three of her own lords, or the entire map 7 where a whole team of subordinate heroes fleshed out in the events go with her to find the Sword
JotunLogi said:
there is no thinking about the impact she causes or contemplating about the future- and even if, it is obvious what the protagonist will do and which pat will be chosen.
how about the events in map 2 where it seems likely she'll lose the war and marry herself off to Magnus, who is like a hundred times more powerful a wizard than she is, or in map 8 where she gets drunk and tries to abdicate the throne, for a couple obvious examples?
Sandro400 said:
Is there something wrong with elaborating?
not at all, after all I elaborated to say I didn't think Erwin was lying lol
Sandro400 said:
I accused "people", not you. People is a vey vague term and I don't I won't find a huge chunk of fans who hate Ashan just because it's not the Old Universe So, why you took it so personally, even digged the archive, mmm?
no, you said "let's be honest, it's not the quality which displeases fans of Ancient universe, it's a mere fact that the universes changed", and I think I count as "fans of Ancient universe" lol
Sandro400 said:
Ok, I've reached my post limit, have fun here boys (and girls)! And I exposed Verriker as erwanized-double agent, beware of him!*
*'tis a joke ofc, but who knows... he has excellent cover...
again with respect, I think you may be the one who's missing out on the joke there lol
____________
|
|
Gryphs
Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:03 PM |
|
Edited by Gryphs at 22:03, 02 Apr 2015.
|
JotunLogi said:
Ashan rather not analizes characters but gives lazy reasons behind ther behaviour- I am fine with it, I prefer rather simple or just not overcomplicated protagonists (antagonists not always .
The lazy explanations seem to me to be poorly executed attempts at depth. Ashan wants overcomplicated characters and stories that what it is trying to do it is just failing.
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:21 PM |
|
Edited by Stevie at 22:39, 02 Apr 2015.
|
Sandro400 said:
Did he say he answers personally for these things? No.
The topic wasn't about answering personally about it, he would only have to answer to his superiors who are only interested in figures. The topic was about him being the main person responsible for the M&M games and the quote I've given proves that conclusively.
sandro400 said:
Did he say he can veto anything? No.
Did I claim that the quote proved that? Not in the slightest. In fact, it was in a previous post that I've mentioned something related, which is what I believe to be common knowledge anyway.
sandro400 said:
Did he say he may directly influence and force things through concerning something that does not relate to Ashan? No.
Actually, yes. He states his involvement in areas that are not related to the Ashan lore, like "music and audio and game design" (even visuals, if you don't consider them related, but I do). A specific example from the rest of the interview is color coding, which he readily admits that he's personally pushing through.
Really sorry to disappoint you, lol
^^
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
|
|
JotunLogi
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:25 PM |
|
|
THe fact that Emilia cries, complains and has constant doubts does not mean that he has very developed character- it just gives us general overview of her character and mental situation. Besides, in spite of everything, her character can be described in few words- noble, mindful and boringly good. Knowing that, player always knows how she will react and why. All those doubts do not mean anything in her character deveopement.
As a ruler she does not think what will be good for people under her rule, diplomacy and all other things. AS a ruler she does not develope at all.
Tharlj is her advisor and military commander but as ruler I would like some nteraction with peasants, people who serve her (all people- she is not a ruler of 7 heroes but a whole kingdom). Besides, her relation with Tharlj is rather simple. With Solmyr it is a bit more complicated but both are noble and good + solmyr has his eternal bound. tragic but at he same time- this prevents character developement cause shpaes him and gives no space
Emilia is rather one dimensional character and all dialogues and examples give portrait of her person but it does not give her depth- esoecially because there are no twists, change in her personality, really tough decisions (not obvious or one dimensional)
I do not mean that it is bad or extremely shallow- just casual and enough but at the same time cheap and a bit one dimensional
|
|
verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:28 PM |
|
Edited by verriker at 22:31, 02 Apr 2015.
|
basically, I completely disagree and think your points are both badly thought out and very easily refutable, but rather than spam a bunch of quotes from the campaign here I'll just say fair enough lol
(though I'll go into it if you want to make a dedicated thread, after all I don't want to "make no real effort" like Erwin lol)
____________
|
|
JotunLogi
Known Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:35 PM |
|
|
do as You wish but do not see reason to make new thead, here is already discussed everything... aside from M&M: Heroes 7 
|
|
Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:35 PM |
|
Edited by Galaad at 23:03, 02 Apr 2015.
|
Moved to the Scrapping Ashan thread.
____________
|
|
Sligneris
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:44 PM |
|
|
Firstly, you didn't exactly have to type all the "em"s. These are not a part of actual interview and frankly, I'm a bit resentful of the manner in which you typed it, as its less of an actual quotation and more of a pointless mockery. Not to mention that you kinda failed on the punctuation, but let's put that aside.
I already mentioned that, too.
Sligneris said:
How did you expect him to act? He defended his own creation, it's something natural. Do you expect him to start believing that the world he created is garbage that should be disposed of, just because a bunch of guys on the internet say so?
I actually admire that he handles it this well. He doesn't get put down too easily, despite people outright hating him. I... wouldn't take it that lightly, should I be in his situation, quite honestly.
|
|
Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:50 PM |
|
|
LizardWarrior said:
The best? Dude, a blind chimpanzee which could write only the first 3 letters of the alphabet could conceive a deeper story with a much more immersive plot than that h6 crap for which they hired a special department. I could have forgive them if it was just put together by a few programmers and art designers in a hurry during a lunch break because they needed a story. But to actually hire people whose only job was to make a story, excuse me, but that must be some kind of joke
Hi Lizzard. I think you misunderstood me a lot. I have never said that the quality of the story in Heroes VI was good. In the opposite I think it was badly executed and poorly written. But on the other hand all Heroes stories I have played are nothing spectacular. What I was talking about was the premise of the story, not the story of the characters but rather the actual impacts that brought them into their situation.
As I said, I never played the H4 story. I have heard many praise of it, and maybe, if somebody would remake them into a H2-3-5-7 format, I would try them out. But for personal reasons the game play of H4 was just not my cup of tea, but I learned to acknowledge the fact that they are good only on the impact they have made.
Apart from this (H4 stories), what were the stories of individual Heroes games?
Heroes I: 4 lords fight over the control of a continent. A standard and simple 90's story.
Heroes II: Two brothers, distinctively labelled Good and bad, fight for the throne of their Dead father.
Heroe III RoE: A princess returns to her homeland for her father’s funeral to find it invaded by opportunistic neighbours, only to be invaded later by her father's murderers. After she gains the aid of old allies, she retakes her lands and discovers the man behind her father's death.
Heroes V: Please do not make me talk about heroes V's plot, there are things you just don't do to other people.
Heroes VI: A group of vengeful angels constructs a plan to save their kind by abusing another race to their needs. At the same time they create a plan how to eradicate their ancient enemies by abusing those who gave them their faith and forcefully endangering the entire world only to fulfil their ancient need for vengeance, which they are blinded by.
Sure individual stories are bad. From an Emo Duke wanabie, over some twilight style inter-racial romances, to rape themes. It was hard to find a good story and even harder to find a well made character. I played most of the campaigns 2+ times and I can't tell you the details, and there are only 2-3 characters that really stood out to me. But the concept, the idea behind these atrocities is not bad at all. Look at all the plots before. None goes so deep. None goes into such topics. They are generic fantasy topic. I will admit that even Heroes 2 is better written, but the premise is not bad at all.
Think about it this way. I hate H4, for its mechanics, its attempts at innovation, art style etc.. But over the years I learned that behind all those things I hate and see as nothing more than trash, there are some good features, like Music, story, some ideas. Sure it never made me love the game, or even try it, but it made me accept it. Try to do this. Get pass the Teenage drama and see the true plot. Find at least few things that the game did well. This is how (in my eyes) you move from an affected fan to a more levelled one that sees more than his personal dispute.
|
|
LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:53 PM |
|
|
|
Ok, my mistake, I haven't understood exactly what you wanted to say.
|
|
Sligneris
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 02, 2015 10:57 PM |
|
|
Dave_Jame said:
Heroes V: Please do not make me talk about heroes V's plot, there are things you just don't do to other people.
I'll do that for you
A young king of the human empire dies at the hands of demons, and his bride swears to have her revenge on the hellspawns that took the life of her beloved. Before dying, the king names her as his successor, but nobles oppose her rule, which leads to a civil war. An opportunistic necromancer offers to resurrect the king, bringing back heroine's fiancé. The king is however resurrected as not only the vampire, but also necromancer's puppet. Meanwhile, demons attempt to kidnap the heroine, in attempt to fulfill their plans. In the end, the heroine becomes a tool of the very demons she swore vengeance upon.
|
| |
|
|
This MEGA THREAD is pages long: 
