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Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1634 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 1000 1200 ... 1345 1346 1347 1348 1349 ... 1400 1600 1634 · «PREV / NEXT»
Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 19, 2016 09:30 PM
Edited by Stevie at 21:31, 19 Mar 2016.

Galaad said:

Antalashan said:



Brukernavn said:
Let's respect that personal preference is subjective, and refrain from name-calling or insults.

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The Young Traveler

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted March 19, 2016 09:33 PM

Chill out, Antalyan doesn't take offense from that, is a gentle poke I take at him back from the SC days as he loves Ashan, no insult here.
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Karmakeld
Karmakeld


Promising
Famous Hero
posted March 19, 2016 10:14 PM

Just adding to the general opinion, but I too think one of H7's biggest challenges is indeed to have a team, who doesn't seem to understand what made the prev. games enjoyable, or at least what worked well in each installment, and go from there (they wanted it to be a best of, didn't they?). It's like asking your mechanic to build your house. He might know he has to build it with bricks, but lack the general understanding of how a house is constructed.
Why would you accept a job, if you don't feel you can fulfill it's requirements? Following the patches and statements that has followed since the release, simply leaves me puzzled as to how either of Ubisoft or Limbic is able to run a business.

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natalka
natalka


Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
posted March 19, 2016 10:49 PM
Edited by natalka at 22:51, 19 Mar 2016.

problem is Ubisoft with their twisted visions. These guys are not only hopeless but failing to realize they screw up again and again.

Remember the statement of one programmer from Black Hole who told that Ubisoft said there will be only one rare resource..

Who the ****  thought that? Xavier? Erwan?

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted March 19, 2016 11:23 PM

natalka said:
problem is Ubisoft with their twisted visions. These guys are not only hopeless but failing to realize they screw up again and again.

Remember the statement of one programmer from Black Hole who told that Ubisoft said there will be only one rare resource..

Who the ****  thought that? Xavier? Erwan?


it was a decision of Erwin lol

Erwin said:
The 4 rare resources have been combined into a single one, called “Dragon Blood Crystals”. Its existence is linked with the history of Ashan. We have three main reasons for this change:

- This brings more strategy to the game. At first, you could think this is the contrary but on former Heroes, each faction had his specific resources to look after and so did not care much about the other guy and his mines. Now that every faction is looking for the same resource, mines possession will be much more strategic as you’ll also prevent the other to take this crucial resource.

- Games with a lot of resources are not strategy games but management games. If you look at Starcraft 2, they have 2 resources. Games such as Settlers VII (7 resources) or Civilization V (32 resources!!) focus more on management. In the former Heroes games, you would often spend a lot of time collecting rare resources that were useless to you just to convert them in the marketplace. This kind of micromanagement was not really the funniest part of playing M&M Heroes...

- It is much easier for map makers. You don’t need to think too much about which resources to place on the map depending on which factions are present.


Derpson said:
Less resources: It was a UBI decision from the very beginning, and no one could change it. They presented the idea to you through the VIP forums, but they never wanted to change the design. Exactly the opposite: they wanted to "convert you", to make you get used to the idea over time, and then "convert" your mates through your fansites.


Derpson said:
Erwin had a vision, and didn't really care about your opinion.

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filozof
filozof

Tavern Dweller
posted March 19, 2016 11:25 PM
Edited by filozof at 00:04, 20 Mar 2016.

Galaad said:



If you want to talk about objectivity then please don't left out Heroes IV.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted March 19, 2016 11:28 PM

My eyes are burned at this reply. I don't know what it takes to have a man contradict an entire community so easily, but he damn well succeeded.

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filozof
filozof

Tavern Dweller
posted March 20, 2016 12:04 AM

Sorry. OK now?

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted March 20, 2016 12:11 AM

Er, I was referring to verriker's reply, the section about Erwan. Didn't think you'd post in the same time.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted March 20, 2016 12:23 AM
Edited by Galaad at 00:36, 20 Mar 2016.

filozof said:
If you want to talk about objectivity then please don't left out Heroes IV.

I was mainly stepping up for HOMM-II's indisputable success but since you ask:
HIV reception said:
The critic aggregator "Metacritic" determined that reviewers found the game to be generally favorable, with a weighted score of 84 out of 100. All Game Guide wrote of the game, "With tons of new features and careful attention given to the original formula, the series remains one of the best in the genre." PC Gameworld was slightly less favorable, saying, "The spark might be there, but it doesnt burn as bright as it has in the past."

However no one is denying a lot of fans felt let down by that one, is why JVC with NWC decided to go back to focus on strategy rather than campaigns for HV:
(EDIT> Despite all, I see Metacritic users score is in the green, ratings are not as high as its predecessors but still better than both VI and VII.)
MMwikia said:
Jon Van Caneghem was more closely involved in the design of Heroes V than Heroes IV, and attempted to redesign the Heroes IV engine to more fully support a pure strategy game than one with abundant roleplaying elements. The game was to feature more of a focus on strategic decision-making than questing, and its maps would have storylines more suited to such gameplay.

BTW, isn't H7 almost exclusively focused around campaigns?
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vitirr
vitirr


Adventuring Hero
posted March 20, 2016 01:14 AM

Antalashan said:
I do not consider H1 or H2 (or even H4) to be good games, or most likely they are much worse than H6 for me from my today's point of view (I liked H2 a very long time ago but now it's over).


Antalyan said:
Once more back to H2:

In the end of the last century, it was a great game. Nowadays its graphic is much worse but it's obvious. However the rest of the game like missions' quests, story, town building, abilities of units, hero development ... all these things do not change with the time. In these regards the later games are much more sofisticated so you cannot say that no progress is there.

But some people simply cannot forget their memories.

Jesus are you serious? Even if you compare H2 to H6 or H7 without your pink coloured glasses on, it kicks their asses so hard that they couldn't stand up until H10 is released (which might never happen).

H2 graphics stand the pass of time perfectly. Even if you don't like the cartoon approach (which I love) they are consistent, and perfectly functional. They provide a perfect graphic layout for the game with a polished presentation, no snowing crazy hardware demands (for its time), never anything is out of place or lacking from the interface to the presentation of units or adventure map, everything is perfectly visible... In comparison H6 and specially H7 are freaking monsters. I admit that some of the H6 maps had some really nice landscapes, (not H7, which from a graphic point of view I consider a step back even from H6), but the whole graphical presentation is a mess. They don't serve the purpose of the game at all, they just want to look complex and more realistic for the sake of it, hindering the gameplay. The scales are completely off, traveling the map is a torture when your hero spends so long to go through the long "realistic" hills and landscapes. And yet artistically they aren't any better than previous games were.
And don't get me started with the interface, disjointed, ugly as a camell ass, completely obstructive and disfunctional.

And gameplay wise, it has the flaws of a 20 years old game (like the utterly unbalanced skills) and some usability issues. But the whole experience is so much better shaped and focused than the last two incarnations of the franchise. Yes they have are more complex systems, and yet they fail miserably. Oh and the AI is ages away.

Please don't even dare to compare one of the best games of all time and certainly one of the best in the franchise if not the best, with H6 or 7. I just feel ashamed by the mere though.
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agneslynd
agneslynd


Hired Hero
posted March 20, 2016 03:29 AM
Edited by agneslynd at 03:31, 20 Mar 2016.

What's dysfunctional about VI interface and what's realistic about its landscapes? I'm sorry this thread is hard to read sometimes when it's filled with nothing but fanboy tripe with basically no argument other than "I don't like it so you're wrong". Lately it seems like the whole purpose of this thread is just to bash the games, which may be deserved, but doesn't a good discussion make.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted March 20, 2016 09:21 AM
Edited by JollyJoker at 09:23, 20 Mar 2016.

Complaints about "Ubisoft's design decisions", like reduction of resources are completely unwarrented (as are the complaints about "Ashan rules", like 7 magic schools and so on):

It is the task of the game designer to make sure the game design considers the imperatives, that simple, that easy. In the case of H6 the designers spent NO THOUGHT WHATSOEVER on the consequences a reduction of resources would have. Instead, they just reduced them, as in taking them out of the game. That's just carelessness. And that led to maps feeling empty and players spend their time fighting for a handful of wood and ore and the oocasional dragonblood crystal most of the time.

(AoW has 3 resources only as well, for example - the problem isn't that.)

So, sorry, but nah. Ubisoft's fault is picking designers that are out of their depth and cannot cope with the demands of getting the game right, that's certainly what they are guilty of, but Ubisoft/Erwan isn't forbidding them to create a good game. They are just not able to deliver.

Oh, and nice post, Vitirr.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted March 20, 2016 10:24 AM

+1
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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted March 20, 2016 10:37 AM

enough with this endless stupid debate. it's like the 100th we see this here.
where are we now elvin?anyhting new you can tell us? are they working on it?and on what exactly? any ETA?
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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted March 20, 2016 10:42 AM
Edited by Gryphs at 11:00, 20 Mar 2016.

I agree completely with you vitirr. Heroes 2's graphics made me feel like I was lost in a fantasy land. Not Ashan or Enroth just some Wonderland-esque type of place. I have not gotten that feeling from any other of the Heroes games, since, except H4; so for me H2's graphics are just timeless. Not to mention they just look nice even today.
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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted March 20, 2016 10:50 AM

The thing I most fondly remember of H2 though? The deep, rich sound when you collected resources . Yeah, I'm weird in that way I guess. H3 doesn't have that, it's shorter, less deep so to speak. The deeper, richer sounds of H2 helped truckloads to establish that feeling of traveling in a fantasy world - for me in any case.

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 20, 2016 11:26 AM

It is true, we have been arguing about it for a very long time. Like, once every month or so. BUT! The debate really consist on the fact that new players, from heroes VI or even V that have known Ashan and the more RPG elements of heroes, have not really felt the strategic element that was more pronounced on the previous games. It is no ones fault that they have been introduced to a specific game that has the name of Heroes and sometimes they do not bother to see the previous games of the genre to compare. And why would they? I mean, sometimes, for most it is common sense to think that a game of 10 or even 20 years past will not be worth his time. I don't blame them.

But there is also the fact that Jolly Joker said. The game has a 7 next to its title. The game said it would provide the best of the series (such statement implies all previous titles, not only V, VI, VII) and that it will not repeat the same mistakes of the past. So here is the problem. Old players are sparked with hope, while new players are fueled with anticipation. Old players expect more, while new players expect new things. So yeah, when the game comes out new players don;t have much to complain about, but older players that have grown up with heroes feel betrayed. Imagine how much more betrayed one will feel if he struggles with the team to explain why this or that should be a priority and then hear that his opinion is biased or he is not right and so on. It is one things to have a vision of the game and work on it and another thing to boast that this is a game for the community and with the community.

Among me, many have sent proposals, harvested bugs and ideas for the game team to consider, work on it and provide. And many of us stated in good faith to the developers via gomaki or the VIPs even i can imagine, things that the game needs to work on before an expansion in order to at least be considered adequate. And don't get me wrong, i am talking about smaller stuff, like AI, weekly growth, creature stats and bugs. I did not even went so far as to say what others say and i agree that the skill system is flawed, that the magic system could be better and so on. Imagine then, our dissatisfaction to be 7 patches later and still on the same boat. Lots of bugs, almost nothing really fixed and so on. I mean i didn't get crashes and now i do (and no, i did a clean install to my pc and downloaded the latest of everything so it is not my machine), the UI sometimes disappears and so on. How we feel betrayed is the arrogance and stubbornness of the developing team to continue this charade of working with us while lying to us. Imagine some saying to your face, "Yes, yes, you are right, this is indeed wrong, we will work on it, definitely" and when you turn your back they throw away your proposal, your bug reports, your everything.

Heroes VII is an enjoyable game, i will say more than Heroes VI, and sometimes more than Heroes V (and here i am talking about the awful AI waiting time that made the game so slow) but, it has many, many flaws. And the fact is the developing team is not going to address them, it is not going to work on us to provide us with they game we want. Can you see the insanity of it? The reason as to why we shout and talk about it over and over? It is supposed to be a product for us, and we engage in trying to make it better so that we can recommend it, and so that more people will buy it and make a good name out of it. If the developers don't help us, they condemn themselves. It is that easy.

So, yeah, the dissatisfaction now doesn't come so far from Ubisoft itself, that is a given because it does not treat a franchise (not a game, a whole franchise) with the respect it needs, but Limbic with its behavior and arrogance has gained an even greater dissatisfaction and hate from us.

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted March 20, 2016 11:28 AM

Maurice said:
The thing I most fondly remember of H2 though? The deep, rich sound when you collected resources . Yeah, I'm weird in that way I guess. H3 doesn't have that, it's shorter, less deep so to speak. The deeper, richer sounds of H2 helped truckloads to establish that feeling of traveling in a fantasy world - for me in any case.


I have also stated that such minor things, as a variety of SFX, sounds, etc increase the immersion and feel of the game. I have also said that each unit should have more sounds, magic also, adventure map objects as well, more music scores etc, but alas, i was named crazy

On the other hand, when you have deeper problems to deal with, you do not mind working on the details...

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted March 20, 2016 11:39 AM

for f' sake end the circle jerk and lets hear some news for the game that this thread is dedicated!
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