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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 7 - Discussion thread ~ This MEGA THREAD is 1604 pages long: 1 200 400 600 800 1000 1200 1400 ... 1480 1481 1482 1483 1484 ... 1600 1604 · «PREV / NEXT»
yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted July 29, 2016 11:43 PM

Gryphs said:
Accept necromancy.


i see what u did there
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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 30, 2016 12:17 AM
Edited by Gryphs at 00:18, 30 Jul 2016.

GenyaArikado said:
It does stand on their own in my opinion, unless I missed some part where Sansa raised an army of japanese snakeman. There are some parallels between Griffin and the Stark kids in their backstories but not even those are the same. Stop trying to make H6 sound like its literally a ripoff of the ASoFaI story, its not.
I never said it was a literal rip-off it is ripping off the premise. Did their original story really need parallels to what just so happens to be an incredibly popular work. Not if they had faith in it which even Erwin seems to doubt.

I mean, lets look at this. At a base level they have many of their characters and settings based on GoT. The only point of these similarities is to draw parallels and nothing else. Typically if you have to draw attention to your story by copying something better it means your work sucks or you have no faith in it. If I "invented" a world called Middle-Originality and in this dreadful fascinating rip-off world there is a human nation named GoGo and to the north is a nation of horsemen named Uui. To their west there is an evil black land named Bado, ruled by Evilicus. Now, Evilicus has lost his magical, golden toenail and falls into the hands of a really short, barefooted man. This man is roped into a group of seven people called the "Fellowship of this is not Tolkien's Work" so he can drop the toenail into Evilicus's magic toilet. I then make the story have absolutely nothing to do with LoTR or ever mention these parallels again. Why did I have any of this then? These parallels do nothing at all, and could be easily replaced with something more imaginative and original. Now Ashan is not a complete rip-off of GoT like my example, but I believe it shows my point. Ashan needs to stand on its own and stop relying on other works to supply its foundation.
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yogi
yogi


Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
posted July 30, 2016 12:38 AM



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bored_of_the_Rings
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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted July 30, 2016 02:42 AM

Gryphs said:
I never said it was a literal rip-off it is ripping off the premise. Did their original story really need parallels to what just so happens to be an incredibly popular work. Not if they had faith in it which even Erwin seems to doubt.


Well excuse me for thinking you think its a literal ripoff after reading your posts saying it was a ripoff lol.

They diddnt NEED to draw parallels. They WANTED to make a story with a similar premise. By that logic why did GRRM need to draw parallels to the the War of Roses? Or why did H4 writer need to draw parallels to Romeo and Juliet or King Arthur  for Nature and Life campaigns?



Quote:
Typically if you have to draw attention to your story by copying something better it means your work sucks or you have no faith in it.


I guess you're saying that every fantasy universe post LotR is absolute trash then, because most of them draw heavily from it lol

Quote:
Why did I have any of this then? These parallels do nothing at all, and could be easily replaced with something more imaginative and original.


What point are you trying to make? That if you draw parallels you need to literally tell the same story?

Quote:
Now Ashan is not a complete rip-off of GoT like my example, but I believe it shows my point. Ashan needs to stand on its own and stop relying on other works to supply its foundation.


Now are you gonna tell me H5 and H7 are a GoT ripoff too?

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Articun
Articun


Supreme Hero
As i dream, so shall it be!
posted July 30, 2016 12:37 PM

So, supposedly on monday august 1stis the twitch session of heroes 7 trial by fire... But in thursday and friday we had no news and no info of ifand when the twitch will happen... Weird?

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dark-whisperer
dark-whisperer


Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
posted July 30, 2016 01:05 PM

Its not weird, its how Ubi+Limbic do their "promotional campaign". Half a$$ed, uncoordinated and chaotic. I guess they will announce time of the stream at Monday few hours in advance.

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Galaad
Galaad


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Enrothian Conservative Party
posted July 30, 2016 01:09 PM

Gryphs said:
Ashan needs to stand on its own and stop relying on other works to supply its foundation. the trashcan.


Fixed.


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dark-whisperer
dark-whisperer


Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
posted July 30, 2016 01:45 PM

Searching through steam I've found this:

Stream will Start at 1500 German time (GMT +1) and will last until around 17:15, but no time pressure if it goes over a little.

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Gryphs
Gryphs


Supreme Hero
The Clever Title
posted July 30, 2016 07:11 PM

@Genya

I am unsure I am getting across what displeases me, so I will try to state it as clear as possible. You cannot ever be entirely original as someone has probably had the same idea before you, but Ashan is not trying to be original it is trying to be GoT. Erwin admits that Ashan uses currently popular work to keep it "current". I mean, Ashan had the perfect opportunity to make something new and shake the aspects of H5 the devs clearly disliked with the post Dark Messiah timeline. Instead, they go into the past to tell a medieval, political, strife narrative focused on families. They also believe it is high time to focus heavily on character greyness in the same way as GoT and add house duchy words. These are not necessarily GoT only creations, but Ashan only adopts them right at the time GoT is incredibly popular. It does not just adopt them either it breathes no new life into them at all and just uses them in the exact same way as the source.

Now, it is not like I am surprised by this, after all, Ashan is a corporate world. The Erwin team like many devs seem to be deluded into believing that originality does not sell but copying originality does. Being a poor man's GoT does not throw your product off shelves, yet Ashan continues to market itself based on its story which is debatably its weakest point. Ashan as a world cannot even handle that type of story do its explain everything nature destroying any mystery it has. Ashan's stories knock-off nature is what I am calling a rip-off, perhaps you believe that word is to harsh. Well, okay. Again like I say repeatedly Ashan needs to find its own two feet (if that is even possible) rather than just copying the next most popular thing. Otherwise, I guarantee that after GoT ends the next most popular series will conveniently coincide with a major reorientation in Ashan's political landscape.
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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 30, 2016 07:23 PM

Gryphs said:
@Genya

I am unsure I am getting across what displeases me, so I will try to state it as clear as possible. You cannot ever be entirely original as someone has probably had the same idea before you, but Ashan is not trying to be original it is trying to be GoT. Erwin admits that Ashan uses currently popular work to keep it "current". I mean, Ashan had the perfect opportunity to make something new and shake the aspects of H5 the devs clearly disliked with the post Dark Messiah timeline. Instead, they go into the past to tell a medieval, political, strife narrative focused on families. They also believe it is high time to focus heavily on character greyness in the same way as GoT and add house duchy words. These are not necessarily GoT only creations, but Ashan only adopts them right at the time GoT is incredibly popular. It does not just adopt them either it breathes no new life into them at all and just uses them in the exact same way as the source.

Now, it is not like I am surprised by this, after all, Ashan is a corporate world. The Erwin team like many devs seem to be deluded into believing that originality does not sell but copying originality does. Being a poor man's GoT does not throw your product off shelves, yet Ashan continues to market itself based on its story which is debatably its weakest point. Ashan as a world cannot even handle that type of story do its explain everything nature destroying any mystery it has. Ashan's stories knock-off nature is what I am calling a rip-off, perhaps you believe that word is to harsh. Well, okay. Again like I say repeatedly Ashan needs to find its own two feet (if that is even possible) rather than just copying the next most popular thing. Otherwise, I guarantee that after GoT ends the next most popular series will conveniently coincide with a major reorientation in Ashan's political landscape.
Hear, hear!
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PandaTar
PandaTar


Promising
Supreme Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
posted July 31, 2016 06:31 AM

Stranger things happen every now and then.
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Heroes-based proposal thread On hold, while I'm writing my book. =)

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted July 31, 2016 03:52 PM

The mottos date back to H5....as in, 2006. So are the attempts for greyness.

You keep bringing up "more original, more original" but i wanna see suggestions. Going back to the basic black and white crap? How can you use the politics stuff differently? In H1-4 case the stories are so generic you cant pinpoint a direct source but a story being GENERIC is exactly the opposite of originality.

You're honestly deluding yourself if you consider that Ashan is the reason Heroes is failing but self delusion is so common here. On top of that most of you ignore that even if Ashan was scrapped (and it wont) and you went back to the Old!Verse it would still be under charge of the same people hence have the same "issues"


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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 31, 2016 04:03 PM
Edited by AnkVaati at 16:08, 31 Jul 2016.

GenyaArikado said:
You keep bringing up "more original, more original" but i wanna see suggestions. Going back to the basic black and white crap? How can you use the politics stuff differently? In H1-4 case the stories are so generic you cant pinpoint a direct source but a story being GENERIC is exactly the opposite of originality.
Lol. You've never played the H4 campaigns, have you?

Heroes 4 Barbarian said:
I know you don't understand it now, Waerjak, but someday you will. Yes we are Barbarians. Yes, we are born warriors. But a warrior is not just a killer. He's a protector! You must have respect for life, and an even greater respect for your ability to take it. Otherwise, you're just a murderer.


Ashan Barbarian said:
Orc no more want to be slave. Me crush skulls.


Heroes 4 Necromancer said:
I have struggled to understand a Universe that allows the destruction of an entire planet. Which will win this endless conflict - destruction or creation? The only thing I know for certain is never to place your faith entirely on one side. Play the middle if you want to survive.

Everyone else is a fanatic.

I am Gauldoth Half-Dead. Your savior.


Ashan Necromancer said:
Markal and his evil magic! Wahahaha make good king vampire wahahaha


......

Or the colourful personalities of H3: SoD? I recognize that part's of H3:s story was a bit black-white (not in all aspects though - most AB campaigns were still waaaay less generic than all Ubi has come up with). Not Ashan-level black-and-white but still. Scrapping the Forge town sought to that. If you want the story behind all that, play M&M7 and 8. It's the opposite of generic - I guarantee you.

GenyaArikado said:
On top of that most of you ignore that even if Ashan was scrapped (and it wont) and you went back to the Old!Verse it would still be under charge of the same people hence have the same "issues"
True there. obviously, both need to go. Both the current team and Ashan itself.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted July 31, 2016 05:05 PM

GenyaArikado said:
You're honestly deluding yourself if you consider that Ashan is the reason Heroes is failing but self delusion is so common here. On top of that most of you ignore that even if Ashan was scrapped (and it wont) and you went back to the Old!Verse it would still be under charge of the same people hence have the same "issues"

Like you said, Ashan is but a byproduct of getting the wrong people for the job. Same as Ashan storytelling. Some half-decent writing could have elevated Ashan in the community's eyes but so far Ashan is mostly associated with bad memories and cringeworthy dialogues/situations.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
Only Erwin Good Die Young
posted July 31, 2016 06:00 PM
Edited by verriker at 18:02, 31 Jul 2016.

you remember I was talking about source that Ubisoft has started to dismantle Team Erwin and projects, now it is confirmed,

Quote:
Cancelled Action-RPG
April 2015 - January 2016
I worked for nearly a year on an exciting, unannounced project with a very talented team. Unfortunately, the project was cancelled before entering full production.
I was the creative designer and main writer on this project. Working with the development team's designers, I had completed a complete first draft of the game's script, as well as a first draft of the game's walkthrough.


dark messiah 2 lol
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Datapack
Datapack


Famous Hero
posted July 31, 2016 06:14 PM

Great news!

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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted July 31, 2016 06:22 PM

Datapack said:
Great news!

lol. How so? Heroes is dying before our eyes.
The only "good" game besides H5:TotE that has been done in the past 10 years will stay buried and without a followup. This is the final nail in the coffin for Ashan since Dark Messiah 2 was the only chance to further the universe.
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"Now I am become Chris, the destroyer of worlds." - Robert Oppenheimer.

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Datapack
Datapack


Famous Hero
posted July 31, 2016 06:32 PM
Edited by Datapack at 18:33, 31 Jul 2016.

It should die. The series has been mistreated for far too long. Pick it back up again when you're actually going to try.

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AnkVaati
AnkVaati


Known Hero
Nighonese National Front
posted July 31, 2016 06:34 PM
Edited by AnkVaati at 18:37, 31 Jul 2016.

I get it's his curriculum vitae, but did Julien Pirou seriously have to write that he worked with a "with a very talented team"? Any future employer can just google that and see for themselves lol.

fuChris said:
Datapack said:
Great news!

lol. How so? Heroes is dying before our eyes.
The only "good" game besides H5:TotE that has been done in the past 10 years will stay buried and without a followup. This is the final nail in the coffin for Ashan since Dark Messiah 2 was the only chance to further the universe.
Did you play the original? Do you seriously think that another cheesy RPG, maybe with another demon girlfriend showing you her is what we need to save Heroes?

Do a proper M&M game instead, in the old world preferably. Tim Lang/Vector came up with a potentially very promising concept for it already almost 10 years ago.
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted July 31, 2016 07:07 PM

I didn't care about the cheesiness, DM did not try to take itself more seriously than it ought to. It was my first fps game and it managed to keep me entertained, even though I was not an fps fan. Had a bad@ss antagonist, sweet action and lots of gruesome death options to explore ^^

I would have liked an isometric party-based rpg in Ashan though. MMX did a fine job with the race/classes and expanding on that would give a lot of interesting possibilities. I do not believe ubi would have created anything close to a masterpiece but such a title could have worked.
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