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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Sylvan Line-up
Thread: Sylvan Line-up This thread is 79 pages long: 1 10 20 30 ... 40 41 42 43 44 ... 50 60 70 79 · «PREV / NEXT»
adriancat
adriancat


Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
posted September 18, 2014 04:21 PM

Saying that something is totally irrelevant without arguing is indeed irrelevant

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Stormcaller
Stormcaller


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2014 04:23 PM

Quote:
Is this official that Dwarves won't come in the future? =S
I was thinking they would be just delayed.


It's not official, but it's not looking good for them. They have few fans, and if the budget for next games is gonna be limited as well, guess who won't show up.


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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 18, 2014 04:25 PM

Stormcaller said:
It's not official, but it's not looking good for them. They have few fans, and if the budget for next games is gonna be limited as well, guess who won't show up.

There's always expansion packs.

But as Marzhin said, to have an expansion pack, one needs to have a basic game. Which is the focus now.
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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 18, 2014 04:28 PM bonus applied by Elvin on 18 Sep 2014.

@War-overlord
Strength - Balance - Fury - CORE:
Strength has a good strategy of Hunter and Snake, like Balance, but Dryad, without Treant might be useless at the beginning. In addition Fury has no one to tank + Treantless Dryad are two bad starting options for Fury. The best core line-up is in Balance, because of its Hunter + Snake combo (trap an opponent and shoot from afar) and Pixie for more attack power. No unit is wasted or without it's role at the beginning of the game.
Grading: B > S > F

Strength - Balance - Fury - ELITE:
Balance and Strength can both use the full potential of entangling enemy units, but Balance has an opportunity to get it more quickly since Treant is Elite. In addition both Balance and Strength have an additional "archer" in the guise of Emerald Warrior (Strike and return ability. Is retribution part a mistake in description?). The real issue is Unicorn, who apparently is not a tank, nor damage dealer, but just anti-magic support. Fury line-up is focused an attack, but the problem is that the units could be too frail. When you also add that they are without a single unit to tank in both Elite and Core units, it is a bit problematic, even though Druid can help there a bit. In a crowded and limited area to move, Blade dancer's ability to damage multiple targets is somewhat not useful, or at least situational, because it would depend on the size and the crowdedness of the battlefield. Deer like Dancers, might be strong attacking units, but frail in terms of HP or defence + their supporting abilities are not explained. Fury line-up reminds me on Blood Furies, who have strong attack but who fall like flies if they are hit, especially if they are hit by damaging spell.
Grading: B >= S > F

Strength - Balance - Fury - CHAMPION:
Both Strength and Fury can rely on Dryad and Treant synergy if they are in need of defence, and both can choose Dragon if they are need of attack. However, what is the use of slow/average speed attacker in Fury when it has all the quick, fast, attacking units? Dragon seems redundant. But than again, Even Treant is wasted in Fury, because you get a tanking unit only late game. It is a CORE + CHAMPION combo. You might lost a lot of your units until you get a tank. Strength is in better position than Fury, since it already has an early tank, and that is Snake. Strength can also augment its attacking power by choosing Dragons. However, both are in disadvantage in comparison to the Balance. Phoenix as a tank is better than Treant since it can navigate the mazy battlefield much better, thus it is more strategic unit. Phoenix and rebirth vs. Dryad and Treant are maybe equally viable. But in one case you need 1 unit and in other you need 2 units. If Dryad needs Treant to be useful, than it isn't useful nor practical unit at all. And if balance needs more attacking power a player can always choose a Dragon.
B > S = F

On a battlefield that is a maze You need archers AND fliers to destroy your enemy. If the passageways are crowded with walkers, the battle might be too long.

Observing a possible strategy of the three options Balance is the best, Followed by Strength and then by Fury. (Of course this is my opinion).
Balance is a mix of attack and defence, but its main advantage lies in flyers. Strength is similar to Balance but it lacks fliers. Fury's weakness lies in few Tanks and few fliers. It cannot accomplish its full attacking and damaging potential if it cannot get to the target.

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War-overlord
War-overlord


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
posted September 18, 2014 04:30 PM
Edited by War-overlord at 16:30, 18 Sep 2014.

Thanks Sleeping_Sun.
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jhb
jhb


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2014 04:30 PM

War-overlord said:
Stormcaller said:
It's not official, but it's not looking good for them. They have few fans, and if the budget for next games is gonna be limited as well, guess who won't show up.

There's always expansion packs.

But as Marzhin said, to have an expansion pack, one needs to have a basic game. Which is the focus now.


Yeah, also new factions usually are a standard feature for big selling numbers.

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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 18, 2014 04:33 PM
Edited by Sleeping_Sun at 16:37, 18 Sep 2014.

War-overlord said:
Thanks Sleeping_Sun.
You're welcome.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted September 18, 2014 04:39 PM

Sleeping_Sun said:
War-overlord said:
Thanks Sleeping_Sun.
You're welcome.

Way to go Sleeping Sun
Best post of all the thread !!!

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jhb
jhb


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2014 04:41 PM

Sleeping_Sun said:

Balance is a mix of attack and defence, but its main advantage lies in flyers. Strength is similar to Balance but it lacks fliers. Fury's weakness lies in few Tanks and few fliers. It cannot accomplish its full attacking and damaging potential if it cannot get to the target.


I respect your opinion, of course. But I think there is a lot of speculation here.
We still don't know what special abilities some units could gain or lose that could change the strategy considerably, opening new opportunities.

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 18, 2014 04:45 PM

Nice, insightful post Shiny awarded, more to come. It is a pain going through all these pages but the search for quality is worthwhile.
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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 18, 2014 04:52 PM

Thanks guys!
jhb said:
Sleeping_Sun said:

Balance is a mix of attack and defence, but its main advantage lies in flyers. Strength is similar to Balance but it lacks fliers. Fury's weakness lies in few Tanks and few fliers. It cannot accomplish its full attacking and damaging potential if it cannot get to the target.


I respect your opinion, of course. But I think there is a lot of speculation here.
We still don't know what special abilities some units could gain or lose that could change the strategy considerably, opening new opportunities.
I completely agree. The abilities of supporting units might change and even create some new strategies, but since we do not know anything about them we can only speculate about the information we already have, which is in fact not much, just descriptions of units. But still, the strategy does depend on line-up and battlefield.
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 18, 2014 04:53 PM

Stevie said:
You really think the Treant will be a pure tank? A champion?! The synergy of the Treant is much better than the Phoenix's one which is focused one itself alone! And I don't find the Treant's presence as arguable as the Phoenix's in Sylvan.

From the description, its abilities and its past, it sounds like the ultimate tank. Sure, being champ level they'll have a punch, but compared to other champs...there is zero info on the treant that suggest it's going to be offensive lol.

As for the sinergy, that's debatable, and I also see more of a detriment than an advantage.

Galaad said:
Sleeping_Sun said:
War-overlord said:
Thanks Sleeping_Sun.
You're welcome.

Way to go Sleeping Sun
Best post of all the thread !!!

He got a deserved QP for that post!
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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
What if Elvin was female?
posted September 18, 2014 04:58 PM

fuChris said:
And the dryad looks like it could easily slow down enemy units on the crowded battlefield by summoning a plant-wall or bee-hive in the way of enemies.
I mean what else is a dryad supposed to support with if not summoning?
Healing? HELL NAW!
Blessing? What for? Elves probably get light magic.
Curses. Pfff.. yeah right...

That would be great, I've always wanted a unit summoner. I've seen complaints about the dryad being just another humanoid but I genuinely like them. And definitely more than the root snake..

For me the only good thing about that snake is that it can delay opponents from reaching your hunters. I don't find them unfit for sylvan but I don't find them interesting either.
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fuChris
fuChris


Promising
Supreme Hero
Master to the Speed of Light
posted September 18, 2014 05:08 PM

Storm-Giant said:


Galaad said:
Sleeping_Sun said:
War-overlord said:
Thanks Sleeping_Sun.
You're welcome.

Way to go Sleeping Sun
Best post of all the thread !!!

He got a deserved QP for that post!


True but each and every concusion he has drawn could come out completley diffrently if only viewed from a slightly different perspective and with a little bit of fantasy.

Trut be told we really don't have any real info so the past ~40 pages of speculation is completely baseless. A little bit of extra info on unit abilities could easily turn the tables.

Elvin said:
fuChris said:
And the dryad looks like it could easily slow down enemy units on the crowded battlefield by summoning a plant-wall or bee-hive in the way of enemies.
I mean what else is a dryad supposed to support with if not summoning?
Healing? HELL NAW!
Blessing? What for? Elves probably get light magic.
Curses. Pfff.. yeah right...

That would be great, I've always wanted a unit summoner. I've seen complaints about the dryad being just another humanoid but I genuinely like them. And definitely more than the root snake..

For me the only good thing about that snake is that it can delay opponents from reaching your hunters. I don't find them unfit for sylvan but I don't find them interesting either.


Exactly what I mean. If people really don't put any thought into unit/ability design then ofcourse the unicorn/phonix debate is gonna take center.

What I'm saying is: Use yor fantasies people!!!
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jhb
jhb


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2014 05:18 PM

Sleeping_Sun said:
Thanks guys!
jhb said:
Sleeping_Sun said:

Balance is a mix of attack and defence, but its main advantage lies in flyers. Strength is similar to Balance but it lacks fliers. Fury's weakness lies in few Tanks and few fliers. It cannot accomplish its full attacking and damaging potential if it cannot get to the target.


I respect your opinion, of course. But I think there is a lot of speculation here.
We still don't know what special abilities some units could gain or lose that could change the strategy considerably, opening new opportunities.
I completely agree. The abilities of supporting units might change and even create some new strategies, but since we do not know anything about them we can only speculate about the information we already have, which is in fact not much, just descriptions of units. But still, the strategy does depend on line-up and battlefield.

Yea, line-up gives a base and speculate is all we can do
When you said "It cannot accomplish its full attacking and damaging potential if it cannot get to the target." I was already imagining something like Kirin's trail of mist and Kappa's jumping attack. Imo, sanctuary played a bit in the "sylvan style".
haha, nice vid. I remember some from H3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G29vSPGbDPY

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hammerhand
hammerhand


Hired Hero
posted September 18, 2014 05:28 PM
Edited by hammerhand at 17:33, 18 Sep 2014.

If someone say pheonix is tank£¬why do we need treant?

a self-resurrecting skill is better than dryad healing£¬because we don't have to add another supporting unit£¬we use snake to replace dryad so we have another dmg dealer.

even if pheonix is tank£¬it can fly and normally it is fast£¬all I have to do is fling over wall and standing next to enemy shooter and than defending £¬to stop them shooting£¬that is more useful than treant. and it don't need dryad to heal.

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hammerhand
hammerhand


Hired Hero
posted September 18, 2014 05:40 PM

Sleeping_Sun said:
@War-overlord
Strength - Balance - Fury - CORE:
Strength has a good strategy of Hunter and Snake, like Balance, but Dryad, without Treant might be useless at the beginning. In addition Fury has no one to tank + Treantless Dryad are two bad starting options for Fury. The best core line-up is in Balance, because of its Hunter + Snake combo (trap an opponent and shoot from afar) and Pixie for more attack power. No unit is wasted or without it's role at the beginning of the game.
Grading: B > S > F

Strength - Balance - Fury - ELITE:
Balance and Strength can both use the full potential of entangling enemy units, but Balance has an opportunity to get it more quickly since Treant is Elite. In addition both Balance and Strength have an additional "archer" in the guise of Emerald Warrior (Strike and return ability. Is retribution part a mistake in description?). The real issue is Unicorn, who apparently is not a tank, nor damage dealer, but just anti-magic support. Fury line-up is focused an attack, but the problem is that the units could be too frail. When you also add that they are without a single unit to tank in both Elite and Core units, it is a bit problematic, even though Druid can help there a bit. In a crowded and limited area to move, Blade dancer's ability to damage multiple targets is somewhat not useful, or at least situational, because it would depend on the size and the crowdedness of the battlefield. Deer like Dancers, might be strong attacking units, but frail in terms of HP or defence + their supporting abilities are not explained. Fury line-up reminds me on Blood Furies, who have strong attack but who fall like flies if they are hit, especially if they are hit by damaging spell.
Grading: B >= S > F

Strength - Balance - Fury - CHAMPION:
Both Strength and Fury can rely on Dryad and Treant synergy if they are in need of defence, and both can choose Dragon if they are need of attack. However, what is the use of slow/average speed attacker in Fury when it has all the quick, fast, attacking units? Dragon seems redundant. But than again, Even Treant is wasted in Fury, because you get a tanking unit only late game. It is a CORE + CHAMPION combo. You might lost a lot of your units until you get a tank. Strength is in better position than Fury, since it already has an early tank, and that is Snake. Strength can also augment its attacking power by choosing Dragons. However, both are in disadvantage in comparison to the Balance. Phoenix as a tank is better than Treant since it can navigate the mazy battlefield much better, thus it is more strategic unit. Phoenix and rebirth vs. Dryad and Treant are maybe equally viable. But in one case you need 1 unit and in other you need 2 units. If Dryad needs Treant to be useful, than it isn't useful nor practical unit at all. And if balance needs more attacking power a player can always choose a Dragon.
B > S = F

On a battlefield that is a maze You need archers AND fliers to destroy your enemy. If the passageways are crowded with walkers, the battle might be too long.

Observing a possible strategy of the three options Balance is the best, Followed by Strength and then by Fury. (Of course this is my opinion).
Balance is a mix of attack and defence, but its main advantage lies in flyers. Strength is similar to Balance but it lacks fliers. Fury's weakness lies in few Tanks and few fliers. It cannot accomplish its full attacking and damaging potential if it cannot get to the target.


good point! way better than mine

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Alex_Yakub
Alex_Yakub


Famous Hero
posted September 18, 2014 06:05 PM

Best arguments in the whole thread! Great job, Sleeping_Sun!
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CanWakhan
CanWakhan


Hired Hero
posted September 18, 2014 06:08 PM

Much appreciated Sleeping_Sun. (Is your nick related to old Nightwish song maybe? )
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Sleeping_Sun
Sleeping_Sun


Promising
Famous Hero
Townscreen Architect
posted September 18, 2014 06:37 PM
Edited by Sleeping_Sun at 18:38, 18 Sep 2014.

jhb said:
Yea, line-up gives a base and speculate is all we can do
When you said "It cannot accomplish its full attacking and damaging potential if it cannot get to the target." I was already imagining something like Kirin's trail of mist and Kappa's jumping attack. Imo, sanctuary played a bit in the "sylvan style".
haha, nice vid. I remember some from H3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G29vSPGbDPY


I have not played H6, so I do not know exactly what is the issue there. But your video gave me something to think about. I'm curious to find out if teleport, remove obstacles, and forcefield spells from H3 will return in H7? It would be very interesting to use them in H7. Manipulating battlefield to gain advantage.

@CanWakhan
Yes, it is related. It is my first Nightwish song I heard and as such it has a special place in my heart.

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