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flonembourg
Known Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:29 PM |
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OK well....
What i can say for the moment is there is no good line-up too choose among the 3 choices!
The worst line-up ever is for me the third "Sylanna's Fury"
Core creatures:
Dryad/Oak+dryad+Pixie/Sprite = A NO-NO
Elite creatures:
Blade dancer= H5 most boring sylvan creature
Moon Doe/Sun Deer= Cool but what is this? lol
Champion creatures
Ok good (i suppose).
So i just hope this lineup won't win and i'm pretty confident because is the last with 28%.
In the second place we have with 34% the "Strength of the forest" line-up.
Well the only problem i see in this line-up is this :"a powerful synergy between the Dryads and the Treants to withstand enemy attacks"
What the Fu... as many guys say in this topic this is a No-Brainer you pick always treant "yeahhhh i can heal it with my Dryad so coooolllll".
And the dragon Bahhhhhh no synergy....
And the winner is "Earth's Perfect Balance" Look at the title guys PERFECT BALANCE so don't worry the line-up is the best possible ever
38% at the moment
There is 2 defaults in this line-up one minor and one MAJOR
1/ the minor: there is no Unicorn, The fans are mistreated by Ubi No Griffins, no Unicorns...
2/ the Major: Phoenix, ok H2 and H4 have Phoenix with nature.... the lore is not respected ( Ashan lore), i don't care about the lore and this is minor But having 2 flyers as champions is a problem for me (unless gold gragon don't fly?)
i Voted the "strength of the forest" Line up for the moment because of Unicorn and the "Champion's diversity" Walker/Flyer.
But i don't care anymore if "Perfect Balance" win the poll.
The line up is pretty good too.
My point is NO SYLANAS FURY LINE UP!
Are you agree with that?
Edit: OK if emerald dragon is a walker is Good there is no major default in the "perfect balance line-up" GOOD!
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Protolisk
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:30 PM |
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VOKIALBG said:
Balance for me. And now Treant as champ + Unicorns must be in. And this line up will give us the chance to play with Sylvan defensive and offensive, not only one of them. This is more gameplay friendly.
Do you mean Strength? Unicorn isn't in Balance.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:33 PM |
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Edited by RMZ1989 at 21:35, 12 Sep 2014.
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Elvin said:
Marzhin just confirmed that H7 green dragons are going to be walkers 
Quote:
If you want some tanking done, you want it early? What the hell is this Elvin?
You want to protect your hunters early and the treants are the best unit for that role. All other units are offensive.
Ok, I would like those Dragons more than Flying ones for sure, but that doesn't make any sense then.
Why would such big walking unit that looks close to Sylanna be fast and aggressive? Judging by that logic, Treants also can be made fast and aggressive...
About your second comment, you want to have Treants in your lineup in the end game, not just as soon as possible for tanking. In H5 Treants were T6 units and weren't exactly easy to get but nobody was complaining about them.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:33 PM |
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blizz said:
Marzhin also said Phoenix will quite probably be a Moonix.
dual-cerberi,trihorns(unicorns with three horns), moonix, what else people?
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 12, 2014 09:34 PM |
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Deam... got it wrong.
Its 34%-38%-28% for now.
VOTE FOR STRENGTH, I'll miss the unicorns 
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:36 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
blizz said:
Marzhin also said Phoenix will quite probably be a Moonix.
dual-cerberi,trihorns(unicorns with three horns), moonix, what else people?
Walking Green Dragons, that is also new. 
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:40 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
ChrisD1 said:
blizz said:
Marzhin also said Phoenix will quite probably be a Moonix.
dual-cerberi,trihorns(unicorns with three horns), moonix, what else people?
Walking Green Dragons, that is also new.
walking dragons in general is not that far fetched as an idea as a "moonix". I wouldn't be so passionate against phoenixes if they were a moon bird without any fire attribute to its mythology.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted September 12, 2014 09:41 PM |
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ChrisD1 said:
what makes you think that the rest of the line up (cores,elite) won't work well with both dragons and treants? they will make some tweaks here and there if they have to, nothing is final.
and what's the point of having to choose between two champions when both of them just look different but play the same? now that's something to consider for a fun gameplay with replayability. i never play multiplayer but i enjoy taking different takes on the map. not only multiplayer adds to the long term survival of the game. new maps mods etc for the single players do more for longevity than multplayer. or contribute the same at least.
OK, so you basically lived under the rock or haven't been here 10 years ago when we had this very same situation with Heroes 5 incoming. We need to discuss the practicality in advance as balancing is very difficult and takes a long time. It's not as if they can just tweak and add a few things to a rather stoic lineup of 6 creatures with the 7th unit being completely different.
This is why IN THEORY everything seems good and practical but when it comes to BALANCING it does not work. I do not really care for casual players who play on easy difficulties -- to them balancing is of very little importance. They also are not ones to market heroes to as it is a decades old franchise with a fanbase. The majority of the fanbase are modders and multiplayer (hotseat) players. To cater to those you have to strive to achieve balance and have a good map editor/random map generator. Casual players will be good with whatever they get.
Also, you need to consider the direction a faction is going. Having a dualistic direction is impossible under the current system. Therefore you can make certain modifications but those need to be in accordance with the general direction of the faction: either it is aggressive, or defensive.
If they take the defensive approach, yes, the treant will be good as a champion, but it will make the faction slow. Slow equals overly defensive. Overly defensive leads to balance issues (haven, necro). Also, overly defensive leads to boring gameplay and next to no replayability.
As for the second part, I am a decades-long fan of HOMM and I have to admit I played very little multiplayer. I enjoyed the games as they are. But for close to 10 years I discussed strategy and various game ideas which only showed that you need to reach a certain balance in order to bring satisfactory gameplay to the vast majority of that fanbase. 15 to 10 years ago the majority of HOMM players who kept on playing the game weren't single players -- either multiplayer or hotseat. Therefore, in order to cater to that demographic, which if I may say so still lead the majority of the fanbase, even if they switched to single player, you need to set balancing straight first and foremost. This means setting a fixed direction for the faction, have it be reminiscent to the factions of the past.
There is also the issue of a game's life span which means extensive support not only from the community but also from the game's developers. Since nowadays we are forced to hook up with uplay and internet servers, a game's lifespan is no more than 2-3 years (the game will stay profitable for that much). After that, servers will start costing more than the potential revenues and further support for the game will subside. Modding, mapmaking and single player do very very little for the devs/publishers in the long run. In order to keep it profitable, there needs to be a stable fanbase to play the game (be it feeding ads through uplay or whatnot). Thus, you need to cater to that demographic. Which, in turn, requires balancing first and foremost.
I do feel I am slowly becoming delirious from trying to force this view on you. Clearly, you will berate me for my inflexibility, but it comes from years and years of trying to decide what would be best for the game, how best to balance the game and the like. I do not think about myself, I will accept whatever they give me. I will still play whatever they give me. I have always done and will strive to do so because I like the franchise. But there are some things which need to be attended to first and if, as you see, you decide upon a broken system from the get-go, you need to carefully outmaneuver the obstacles during the development process in order to achieve perfect balance -- even if the lineup does not become overly diversified or revolutionary.
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Kurush
Known Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:42 PM |
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Green Dragons have average speed, they aren't fast. But they compensate it with a powerful AoE attack, probably some acid cloud.
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VOKIALBG
Honorable
Legendary Hero
First in line
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posted September 12, 2014 09:45 PM |
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Edited by VOKIALBG at 21:45, 12 Sep 2014.
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I fixed my vote, STRENGTH got 1% more and now its 35 to 37%, keep voting guys, save the unicorns!
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 09:46 PM |
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VOKIALBG said:
I fixed my vote, STRENGTH got 1% more and now its 35 to 37%, keep voting guy, save the unicorns!
Voted Strength with both of my accounts.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted September 12, 2014 09:49 PM |
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FOR THE UNICORNS!
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 12, 2014 09:50 PM |
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RMZ1989 said:
VOKIALBG said:
I fixed my vote, STRENGTH got 1% more and now its 35 to 37%, keep voting guy, save the unicorns!
Voted Strength with both of my accounts.
CHEATER!
I always knew you were a hacker!
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted September 12, 2014 09:58 PM |
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By the way I hope you realize the direction the first option forces us into: totally defensive sylvan (against all concepts).
hunter/master hunter -> ranged shooter
snake (totally retarded) -> fast walker
dryad -> potentially slow support
they should have just merged sprites+dryads
druids -> lol wut? no spellcasting? niiice... more ranged
unicorn -> mid-range walker to slow some more
emerald warrior -> if not pegasi rider, no flying units
and two tanks as champions with average move range...
Totally defensive sylvan... 
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 10:03 PM |
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TDL said:
OK, so you basically lived under the rock or haven't been here 10 years ago when we had this very same situation with Heroes 5 incoming. We need to discuss the practicality in advance as balancing is very difficult and takes a long time. It's not as if they can just tweak and add a few things to a rather stoic lineup of 6 creatures with the 7th unit being completely different.
why do ALL six creatures need to be tweaked to work with the two champions?
TDL said:
This is why IN THEORY everything seems good and practical but when it comes to BALANCING it does not work. I do not really care for casual players who play on easy difficulties -- to them balancing is of very little importance. They also are not ones to market heroes to as it is a decades old franchise with a fanbase. The majority of the fanbase are modders and multiplayer (hotseat) players. To cater to those you have to strive to achieve balance and have a good map editor/random map generator. Casual players will be good with whatever they get.
now that's a little elitist and unfair to single players. and I have been playing heroes from heroes 2 since I am 28 years old. I enjoyed more playing alone with a harder difficulty level, and that's why treants will be a welcome arrival as a challenge.
single players does not necessarily mean a "whatever" player.
TDL said:
Also, you need to consider the direction a faction is going. Having a dualistic direction is impossible under the current system. Therefore you can make certain modifications but those need to be in accordance with the general direction of the faction: either it is aggressive, or defensive.
yet you seem to want the balanced option.
TDL said:
If they take the defensive approach, yes, the treant will be good as a champion, but it will make the faction slow. Slow equals overly defensive. Overly defensive leads to balance issues (haven, necro). Also, overly defensive leads to boring gameplay and next to no replayability.
and that's what the third option is for. although I agree with slow gameplay, no one said the treant will be THAT slow as champion. plus it can be a supreme support unit for your faster units to strike even faster without disruption.
TDL said:
There is also the issue of a game's life span which means extensive support not only from the community but also from the game's developers. Since nowadays we are forced to hook up with uplay and internet servers, a game's lifespan is no more than 2-3 years (the game will stay profitable for that much). After that, servers will start costing more than the potential revenues and further support for the game will subside. Modding, mapmaking and single player do very very little for the devs/publishers in the long run. In order to keep it profitable, there needs to be a stable fanbase to play the game (be it feeding ads through uplay or whatnot). Thus, you need to cater to that demographic. Which, in turn, requires balancing first and foremost.
I do feel I am slowly becoming delirious from trying to force this view on you. Clearly, you will berate me for my inflexibility, but it comes from years and years of trying to decide what would be best for the game, how best to balance the game and the like. I do not think about myself, I will accept whatever they give me. I will still play whatever they give me. I have always done and will strive to do so because I like the franchise. But there are some things which need to be attended to first and if, as you see, you decide upon a broken system from the get-go, you need to carefully outmaneuver the obstacles during the development process in order to achieve perfect balance -- even if the lineup does not become overly diversified or revolutionary.
you are right then about multiplayer and servers but you can have balance and diversity. you make these two to be exact opposites. again all six units will work with both treants and dragons. dryads might have a strong attack. so either you will choose to support treants or go on the ofensive with them while choosing dragons.
as for your last paragraph we all want the best for this franchise. and i won't berate for anything we are having an interesting conversation.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted September 12, 2014 10:07 PM |
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By what marzhin has revealed so far it will be a balanced defensive lineup (based on choice 1 which most follow). I do not suspect if people want a fully defensive sylvan. That said, I'd rather see it go fully defensive than aggressive with Treants as champions.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 10:09 PM |
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Edited by ChrisD1 at 22:10, 12 Sep 2014.
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TDL said:
By the way I hope you realize the direction the first option forces us into: totally defensive sylvan (against all concepts).
and two tanks as champions with average move range...
Totally defensive sylvan...
you do realize there is a third option right? an offensive sylvan. treants cripple stuff you attack more frequently.
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Sorts
Known Hero
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posted September 12, 2014 10:10 PM |
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So Green Dragons... There is actually a good chance them being walkers not flyers. We know that the lesser dragons are similar on looks to their parent.
So we have pictures of Sylanna, and we have this: http://tools.mmdocking.com/images/cards/s05/large/s05_Cre_Nec_072.jpg
Yeah, its a zombie dragon, but the corpse must have come from somewhere 
Also it has greenish scales and branch-like horns and spikes/whatever.
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Wellplay
Famous Hero
Poland Stronk
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posted September 12, 2014 10:10 PM |
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Also Hunter don't deserve be lowest core unit its disrespectful 
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted September 12, 2014 10:12 PM |
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Edited by TDL at 22:14, 12 Sep 2014.
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By the time you buy treants (champions) you will have had a full roster of tanks. And you get two tanks as champions. It pretty much is Order faction from H4 all over. Just make treants elites and we are good to go.
That said, I can only say people get what they deserve: choosing too many dwarves and their supposedly defensive lineup for a defensive sylvan. Oh, the irony.
EDIT @ Sorts
Marzhin confirmed in the other thread green dragon will indeed be a walker (if included).
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This thread is pages long: 
