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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted December 27, 2014 06:07 PM |
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@artu:
Look at the number of mods for Skyrim and Civ V, both 3D games. I do not mean to say that 3D games are superior to 2D ones but in my opinion the kind of preffered graphics is just based on personal choice, not some kind of "design superiority", which is hard to prove because for every argument for 2D comes a counterargument.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 27, 2014 06:13 PM |
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Stevie said:
Which is nothing more nothing less than an angle issue, not a 2D vs. 3D issue. Switch to a top down angle in the second picture, you'd have exactly what you see in the first but in 3D.
What do you expect to see if you take that 3D chessboard from a top down angle view ?
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 27, 2014 06:16 PM |
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Stevie said:
artu said:
From a perfectly top down angle 3D would be 2D view, anyway. Sigh...
Don't try to be a smartass Stevie, you suck big time at it.
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. You can render in 3D and show one angle, it's still 3D. Just like in your second picture with the 3D chess showing from just one angle. Motion and animation could reveal that it's 3D but even in absence it is still 3D.
You're clueless, stay on the bench and keep quiet.
You are the clueless one.
When this conversation was had back when there was no 3D heroes games people like you came up with the same snow in these forums.
Now, 2 3D heroes games later, they are both snow, so please, stay in your dark corner and never come back.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 27, 2014 06:16 PM |
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Quote:
You're clueless, stay on the bench and keep quiet.
Another desperate attempt at semantics, a top down view, in practicality, has only x and y, not x,y and z.
Trying to pose as you know things when you are clueless about them is your trait, not mine. Now, stop trying to provoke people as usual and go back to your desperate, little world where zeppelins bomb Hitler's Bunker (with a  since you are sooo confident about it), world is 6000 years old, science is about absolute certainty and "youtube guy" proves 9/11 conspiracy. You small-minded aggressor with your toxic inferiority complex. What a disgusting excuse for a character...
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted December 27, 2014 06:23 PM |
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artu said:
Quote:
You're clueless, stay on the bench and keep quiet.
Another desperate attempt at semantics, a top down view, in practicality, has only x and y, not x,y and z.
So what do you mean by 2D graphics if not a view with only two axes because I have gone completely bonkers?
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 27, 2014 06:32 PM |
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Stevie, people argue because that's what forums are for. Then you come, the first HC supporter, call everyone a clown, start a fight with artu, and then, as usual, you will run into moderator's skirts to ask for moderation if it derails.
I agreed with artu's example, because, unlike you -correct me if I am wrong-, I spent 2 years working with 3DS max, importing 3D objects for 2D game, correcting angles and textures, creating 3D trees for H3, over 300 new creatures 3D for Heroes III + several graphical patches for map adventure (about 3000 objects). 2 years of work with 3DS max, so I don't speak from my butt, ok?
So show me what you did or work on 3D or 2D environment, then let's define about the meaning of "clueless" and pick who's going to stay on bench. I have no problem if you disagree on discussions, but when you start calling us clowns or acting aggressive, don't be surprised if asked for evidence.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 27, 2014 06:32 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 19:08, 27 Dec 2014.
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artu said:
...
You still fail to comprehend that viewing angle and object are both distinct entities.
Clueless all the way, as I even said.
Test for dummies: look at an object in your room with just one eye. Is it 2D or 3D?
@Sal, First of all, I didn't call anyone a clown. Second of all, I don't have any kind of 3D experience apart from what I've seen my uncle work (cadaster engineer, builds 3D virtual replicas). Third of all, these:
 
Prove my point exactly. 3D and viewing angle are DIFFERENT THINGS. So when someone posts me this:
And tells me how 3D is a problem, then I already know he's clueless.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 27, 2014 06:36 PM |
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@Pawek
Technically, even a paper isn't two dimensional, it has microscopic height, but that's quite irrelevant. In every day language, a 2D view is something with vertical and horizontal aspects, while a 3D view is something with a significant, visible height as well. Of course, there is a difference between isometric perspective and the real 3D world (or it's cinematic simulation you see with special glasses). In a computer game, a perfectly top down angle would prevent you from seeing any height, so it would practically be 2D view, as terminologically used in the phrase "a 2D game" Think of old C64 games like Commandos, they classify as 2D and the angle is top down.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted December 27, 2014 06:46 PM |
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^Alright, thank you for clarification. 
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted December 27, 2014 07:07 PM |
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I see this discussion is quite heated, but there is no need for arguments ad hominem (from both sides) or asserting as fact that the 3D Heroes games are both "snow".
I think the whole 2D vs 3D debate primarily boils down to personal preference. Both systems have their merits and their downsides. People claim that it is easier to make maps for 2D games, but I think this has more to do with the way the map editors were implemented than with the games being in 3D.
Personally, I think a new 2D or 2.5D Heroes game would be awesome, but I don't have a problem with 3D either.
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Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted December 27, 2014 07:15 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 19:27, 27 Dec 2014.
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Kronos1000 said:
I think the whole 2D vs 3D debate primarily boils down to personal preference. Both systems have their merits and their downsides. People claim that it is easier to make maps for 2D games, but I think this has more to do with the way the map editors were implemented than with the games being in 3D.
Thank you, thank you, finally someone with the same opinion as mine! You truly don't know how grateful I am that there is someone who thinks exactly the same way as I do! 
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 27, 2014 07:28 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 19:34, 27 Dec 2014.
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Stevie said:
Prove my point exactly. 3D and viewing angle are DIFFERENT THINGS. So when someone posts me this:
And tells me how 3D is a problem, then I already know he's clueless.
Stevie said:
Switch to a top down angle in the second picture, you'd have exactly what you see in the first but in 3D.
lol
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 27, 2014 07:37 PM |
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Edited by artu at 19:41, 27 Dec 2014.
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Yeah, exactly... lol.
Quote:
3D and viewing angle are DIFFERENT THINGS. So when someone posts me this:
Isometric 3D board
And tells me how 3D is a problem, then I already know he's clueless.
Stevie you are the one who's clueless and mixing up the terminologies, go open any Chessmaster app, from select view menu, pick a one titled 2D, you'll have the first picture, pick a one titled 3D, you'll have the isometric view as the second picture. If you fix the isometric view to a perfectly top down angle, you will, in practicality, have a view that shows no height and only x and y axes, just like the ones titled 2D, the only difference will be, you will see the top of the pieces instead of icons, so the pieces will be harder to recognize. The difference between the H3 map and the H5 map is the equivalent of the difference between the 2D chessboard and the isometric chessboard. Everybody understands that quite instantly except you. You desperately try to twist this very clear example into something else, and the reason for that is you felt bad when people praised me about it. There is nothing that can come from you that I can't comprehend, while a lot blows in your face when I talk about things you cant comprehend and that is your actual, very transparent problem. Ironically, every time you act upon it, you sink lower and put yourself in a worse situation.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Kronos1000
Promising
Supreme Hero
Fryslân Boppe
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posted December 27, 2014 07:46 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Kronos1000 said:
I think the whole 2D vs 3D debate primarily boils down to personal preference. Both systems have their merits and their downsides. People claim that it is easier to make maps for 2D games, but I think this has more to do with the way the map editors were implemented than with the games being in 3D.
Thank you, thank you, finally someone with the same opinion as mine! You truly don't know how grateful I am that there is someone who thinks exactly the same way as I do!
That's funny, I hadn't read the entire thread when I posted that, but now I just saw that you posted something similar on the previous page. But yeah, I agree 
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Hwær cwom mearg? Hwær cwom mago?
Hwær cwom maþþumgyfa? - 'The Wanderer'
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted December 27, 2014 08:04 PM |
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Pawek_13 said:
Kronos1000 said:
I think the whole 2D vs 3D debate primarily boils down to personal preference. Both systems have their merits and their downsides. People claim that it is easier to make maps for 2D games, but I think this has more to do with the way the map editors were implemented than with the games being in 3D.
Thank you, thank you, finally someone with the same opinion as mine! You truly don't know how grateful I am that there is someone who thinks exactly the same way as I do!
There are more. But I've seen more threads like this pop up then I can be bothered to recount since 2006. I'm tired of this kind of thread, I cannot be asked to reply, even though I like to lurk in them now and again, in the vain hope of hearing new arguments.
The same arguments are used over and over and over and over... It's always the same kind of people who use them, every single time. It's always new people who fight for 3D, because the 2D people can rarely be convinced of something else. So people who defend 3D once will not bother to do so a second time. One can take only so much, "it was beter in the old days", before you let people who wish to live in the past, live in the past.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted December 27, 2014 08:09 PM |
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War-overlord said:
Pawek_13 said:
Kronos1000 said:
I think the whole 2D vs 3D debate primarily boils down to personal preference. Both systems have their merits and their downsides. People claim that it is easier to make maps for 2D games, but I think this has more to do with the way the map editors were implemented than with the games being in 3D.
Thank you, thank you, finally someone with the same opinion as mine! You truly don't know how grateful I am that there is someone who thinks exactly the same way as I do!
There are more. But I've seen more threads like this pop up then I can be bothered to recount since 2006. I'm tired of this kind of thread, I cannot be asked to reply, even though I like to lurk in them now and again, in the vain hope of hearing new arguments.
The same arguments are used over and over and over and over... It's always the same kind of people who use them, every single time. It's always new people who fight for 3D, because the 2D people can rarely be convinced of something else. So people who defend 3D once will not bother to do so a second time. One can take only so much, "it was beter in the old days", before you let people who wish to live in the past, live in the past.
Glad that we agree. I don't even think that 2D is bad, or that 3D is much better, but the way people present and twist their arguments here(no matter on which side they are on) repels me arguing about something or having any real discussion at all.
____________
Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 27, 2014 08:09 PM |
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Not a single person defended 2D out of nostalgia, so, that's not even an oversimplification.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted December 27, 2014 08:18 PM |
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I think i know what Stevie is trying to say. It goes like this - if you look at an object in real life from top down angle, you still see dept to it.... you see it and recognize it as a 3D object.
However Stevie, this only works in real life. And it is coz your eyes are apart and see immage from 2 diferent angles. It does not translate to PC immage tho. That is because objects are drawn so it only makes illusion that it is 3D. your PC screen does not have real dept to it. Objects that are drawn in a perfect top - down view, therefore have exactly 2 dimensions. They can only appear to be 3 dimensional, if they are at an angle.
Edit: Last thing i would like to add - when i was a kid and first played H1 ... I would literaly kill to have graphics like H6 does. 
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted December 27, 2014 08:24 PM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 20:26, 27 Dec 2014.
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artu said:
Not a single person defended 2D out of nostalgia, so, that's not even an oversimplification.
I may argue with you a little more but if you still state that you "defend 2D" because it is better design-wise, just skim through this thread and look for my posts. Heroes III was good not because it was 2D, it is good because of well-executed mapmaker,good optimization and clear adventure map. 2D was chosen because of technical limitations, nothing more.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 27, 2014 08:34 PM |
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I defend 2D adventure map because of bigger lands, less buggy random maps, easier grasp of an overall view. I wont once again get into the details about why these are indeed directly relvant to having a 2D map, some because of the circumstances, some categorically. But one thing is for sure, we dont defend 2D because its old, on the contrary, some of you defend 3D just because it's new.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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This thread is pages long: 
