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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted December 28, 2014 12:48 AM |
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Edited by Pawek_13 at 00:50, 28 Dec 2014.
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I don't know, artu. For me, 2D objects on 2D maps feel like a loss of so much space that could have been used in some better way. Thanks to the 3rd dimension those creatures/buildings/natural monuments (trees, mountains, etc.) would not take so much space.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted December 28, 2014 01:24 AM |
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All know board ie. map are 2D. Heroes 4 is ok, they would develop call of camelot, second cause was good fight game like 2,5D. Chess is a board game, but they want chance to 3D strategy graphic rule. Later card games are 3D, because it is better looking. They don't think of the depth. If you like the monopoly is bad to eyes, they expect you say. And 2D is history! People get used to..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 02:21 AM |
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Edited by Stevie at 02:33, 28 Dec 2014.
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Amagad did Ghost just found the Heroes 7 threads?!
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 28, 2014 02:56 AM |
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okrane said:
I mean seriously, all this crap about Heroes in 3D brings nothing to the table.
2D makes it easier to produce the game,
easier for map makers to quickly build new maps
easier to understand what's going on and
the feel of a strategy game...
before it's too late...
In 2002 it would be easier, but 2D graphics (good 2D graphics) don't really make the game much easier to produce anymore. 2D involves a lot of recreating graphics for doing different animation. With 3D, once you have the animations complete you can just rotate the camera around and the engine does everything its suppose to do. The tools to produce a 3D world are very much streamlined.
Besides the moving camera, a large part of 3D just boils down to having finer pixels. Even H3 artwork had a depth element to the design to give it kind of a 3D look. You'd need a horizontal monitor projector that displays the images upwards for literal 3D, and stuff like that isn't commercial.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 10:26 AM |
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side scrolling games like old Castlevania or Mario are far superior to 3D action games like Bayoneta or God of War because:
- they are eayser to produce, and cost less
- Because of this with new technology and same budged, immagine how much levels/stages can be put into one game - we're talking 200+ hours here.
- It's easyer to contorll your character
- It makes it more aparent when gauging jumping distance, and makes platforming much better coz of it.
- contorlls are fewer and it's easier to grasp the basics
- 3D movement makes you dizzy and dissoriented when fighting enemies
- if moding is implemented, it makes it easier for moders to create new levels, characters and content in 2D by FAR.
-2D takes no dept away in terms of fighting mechanics - just look at the Street Fighter serie ... it's 2D - does it mean it's not deep? on the contrary.
Let's therefore produce Bayonetta 3 as a 2D sidecroller ...
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 02:54 PM |
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[url=http://img7.gram.pl/20140816002801.jpg]H7 adventure map[/url] [url=http://images9.gry-online.pl/galeria/galeria_duze3/92166903.jpg]Sorceress king adventure map[/url]
[url=http://www.gamer.ru/system/attached_images/images/000/678/597/original/might__magic_heroes_vii-2596267.jpg]H7 battle map[/url] [url=http://images9.gry-online.pl/galeria/galeria_duze3/425213609.jpg]Conquest of champions battle map[/url] [url=http://games.gamepressure.com/view_screen.asp?ID=277055]Conquest of champions battle map 2[/url]
That heroes in H7 adventure map is huge compared to it's surrounding vs second one (3 troop) more believable
Now look at H7 battle map I can't barely see unit detail in second one everything is clear
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okrane
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 03:10 PM |
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cliff_nest said:
H7 adventure map Sorceress king adventure map
H7 battle map Conquest of champions battle map Conquest of champions battle map 2
That heroes in H7 adventure map is huge compared to it's surrounding vs second one (3 troop) more believable
Now look at H7 battle map I can't barely see unit detail in second one everything is clear
Yes but just look how "empty" that H7 adventure map really feels.
Also, do you feel that you understand what is happening at the far edge of that map? Could you click send your hero there to pick up that piece of wood? Or couldl you estimate how long it's gonna take to get there? What if there was an enemy hero there? Would you get a clear understanding that he is there or how long it would take for him to get to your town?
Combat maps are less the issue in 3D so I have no take on that.
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 04:18 PM |
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H7 map "empty" you lost me there what do you mean. It's pretty crowded?
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 04:50 PM |
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I agree. It dosen't feel empty at all. If anything the other one seems far more empty.
And notion that on the other map it's easier to gauge the distance somehow is preposterous. The ONLY way to exactly know how many turns does it take is if you had a grid, or at least coordinates in the map. And non of HoMM games has that.
H7 map is at an agngle and zoomed in prety close for the screenshot. It's not fair comparison anyway. Zoom that out and turn angle of camera and it's better instantly.
And most funny thing is ... both of these are 3D! We're not talking 2D vs 3D comparison here. We are talking cartoony vs more realistic approach to graphics. If anything it talks in favour of 3D, coz it shows, that proper 3D implementation can make adventure map very clear. Now if you prefer that type of art design more - then that's whole other topic. I agree that cartoony 3D art stlyle can work. It works on many games ... Torchlight and League of Legends come to mind.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 28, 2014 05:13 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 04:06, 29 Dec 2014.
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Still very far from what I originally had in mind, is the best I could do with my poor photoshop skills.
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 05:17 PM |
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This forum is going haywire is there an update or what?
@okrane H7 map "empty" you lost me there what do you mean. It's pretty crowded or are you referring to Sorceress king adventure map?
As for you're second statement somebody had the courtesy of answering and let leave it at that has I feel asking the question is answering it
The comparison is 3D vs 2.5D. I was actually comparing proportion in the adventure map.
@Zombi_Wizzard You're right about zooming it was confirmed however I'm not sure about rotating. One thing we agree on tough is 2D or if not anything that not 3D for this game.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 28, 2014 05:21 PM |
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 05:24 PM |
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@Galaad
Shut up and take my pesos. I was going to buy cheese snack with them I'll cut my ration just for that
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted December 28, 2014 05:28 PM |
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Edited by Galaad at 17:28, 28 Dec 2014.
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cliff_nest said:
@Galaad
Shut up and take my pesos. I was going to buy cheese snack with them I'll cut my ration just for that
What ?
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dark-whisperer
Famous Hero
Darkness feels no mercy
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posted December 28, 2014 05:30 PM |
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Salamandre said:
I think is clear what will be the issue. You will spend your time to zoom in and out.
Adventure map on that screenshot is zoomed in and angle is too shallow. No one would play zoomed in like that. I personally play zoomed out to the max and never zoom in at all.
Screenshot
This zoom looks fine to me. On twitch and in Cologne when they showed us demo gameplay I had zero issue with visibility or zoom on adventure map.
With battlefield I really don't have any issue (except I would turn grid on)) but I can understand that there are people that will need to zoom in to see details on units.
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 05:31 PM |
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@Salamandre
yes exactly but there a quick solution don't buy the game  Do it like me save money get more tacos and beer. After a few I swear you're in a damn convincing fantasy world.
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 05:35 PM |
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Galaad said:
What ?
 +1 instead
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Zombi_Wizzard
Famous Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 05:59 PM |
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Salamandre said:
You will spend your time to zoom in and out.
Why would you do that?
Edit: Also i think you are confusing this 2.5D thing. (NOT talking to Salamandre here!!!) That screenshot is clearly 3D. By that logic League of Legends and Torchlight are also 2.5D ? No. those are all 3D games.
2.5D is Street Fighter 4 and Trine - a 2D game with 3D objects.
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cliff_nest
Hired Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 06:46 PM |
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted December 28, 2014 06:50 PM |
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Quote:
Castlevania...far superior to...Bayonetta
oh hell snowing no.
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This thread is pages long: 
