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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: Boy... they sure did MISTREAT this franchise
Thread: Boy... they sure did MISTREAT this franchise This thread is 11 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 · «PREV / NEXT»
artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 29, 2014 11:14 PM

I didnt mean it in a condesending way, Galaad,  I dont put when the sarcasm is obvious to me. I think the stories are basically fillers that are there to move the campaign scenario and nothing more, I dont expect them to be anything substantial, so I dont pay attention. Of course, had they been actual literature, it could have been good but how is that even gonna work, did you ever read a game script you consider good literature?
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 29, 2014 11:19 PM

Same here. I spent thousands of hours on this game, yet I still have no clue what ashan or erathia are, only seeing people using those words around.
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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted December 29, 2014 11:22 PM
Edited by Galaad at 00:59, 30 Dec 2014.

I know you were sarcastic Artu, but is true that I might have taken you too seriously, uber-nerdic achievement is actually a good one.

Thing is I like to encourage writers to consider more that aspect of a game, as it is downgrading with times. I don't expect to find any Tchekov into a fantasy game, but at least should be something that has been thought through.

I believe all is tied, if a peculiar aspect of a whole is neglected, it will affect the whole ; as much as if a peculiar aspect of that same whole is polished, it shall benefit other unrelated elements of that whole.
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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted December 29, 2014 11:36 PM

artu said:
Lol, I have always wondered who read those computer game stories and you guys even detect and debate plot holes! I dont know if to respect this as an uber-nerdic achievement or to conclude that life has more dark humor than art ever can.  


good shout dude, it's cramping our style, we haven't been using this Heroes of Might and Magic video game fan forum for its intended purpose
let's get back to nerd warring for three pages about the semantics of a word in a thread title hue hue hue

seriously though, even though most VG stories are crap, I do think the likes of Planescape Torment or Shadow of the Colossus prove the medium has some artistic potential,

at least saying it's not even worth anyone's time to care about quality sure won't cause them to improve hehe

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted December 29, 2014 11:44 PM
Edited by Avirosb at 23:46, 29 Dec 2014.

GenyaArikado said:
-A demon designed to trick people being good at...tricking people?
-The sheltered girl being naive? *le bigger gasp*

It's giving her too much credit once you know the average level of intelligence among Ashan's population.
And whose idea was it to let the sheltered girl in charge?

Also Verriker, I don't think I your posts often enough.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 30, 2014 01:11 AM

verriker said:
good shout dude, it's cramping our style, we haven't been using this Heroes of Might and Magic video game fan forum for its intended purpose
let's get back to nerd warring for three pages about the semantics of a word in a thread title hue hue hue

seriously though, even though most VG stories are crap, I do think the likes of Planescape Torment or Shadow of the Colossus prove the medium has some artistic potential,

at least saying it's not even worth anyone's time to care about quality sure won't cause them to improve hehe

Lol. Well, that was kind of spontaneous and it was about an actual thing happening at the moment. It's not as long as it looks without the pyramid quoting, btw, I carried all of it to the related OSM thread and it's like half a page.

About VG stories having the potential to be better, fair enough, why not.. But the thing is, they will always be determined by game mechanics and what is put in the game, not literary criteria. So, if they decide there will be nagas in the Tower and a Necro hero with vampire specialty, the story will have to develop according to that, not the other way around. I'd say that would tie your hands pretty much. And personally, since I wont bother to read them because of that, I don't care if they get better or not. Still, I totally understand that some people get in the mood of the game more by following the story and enjoy doing the reading along as they advance.


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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 30, 2014 01:45 AM
Edited by xerox at 01:47, 30 Dec 2014.

artu said:
I didnt mean it in a condesending way, Galaad,  I dont put when the sarcasm is obvious to me. I think the stories are basically fillers that are there to move the campaign scenario and nothing more, I dont expect them to be anything substantial, so I dont pay attention. Of course, had they been actual literature, it could have been good but how is that even gonna work, did you ever read a game script you consider good literature?


Really? For me the story is very important in the campaigns. I'm playing Heroes 4 right now and am really enjoying the story bits in the campaign. I have an especially hard time understanding why one would even play the campaigns without atleast trying to get immersed into the story. Of course gameplay is really, really important too and H4 is underrated in that aspect. But I only play H4 campaigns. Never ordinary maps.

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted December 30, 2014 02:35 AM

@Verriker

-If you dont like thats ok, but the handling was ok

-You do realize that the point of Isabel is that she is naive and not good at that and only followed because she was their superior. She is not supposed to be Catherine or Emilia. She was easily manipulated, and she is not the first king or queen to be like that (Rasputin and Tsarina Alexandra for example)

-How does that answer to what i wrote above i dont know and im frankly uninterested in knowing.

Like i said from the first moment, H5 does have story telling and dialogue issues. That may make the story come off cheesy or silly in some points but doesnt mean the actual story is like that.

I'm well aware that my words wont change your mind, but then again, proving your idiocy by making you spend time talking about a story you claim to hate is funny imo.

artu said:
Lol, I have always wondered who read those computer game stories and you guys even detect and debate plot holes! I dont know if to respect this as an uber-nerdic achievement or to conclude that life has more dark humor than art ever can.  


It's around the level of "I'm gonna make an account in a forum and spend my time whining about a franchise (in theory) i dont like anymore and say it was raped" but not quite up there.

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verriker
verriker


Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
posted December 30, 2014 03:08 AM

GenyaArikado said:
I'm well aware that my words wont change your mind, but then again, proving your idiocy by making you spend time talking about a story you claim to hate is funny imo.


lol, 2/10

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted December 30, 2014 05:37 AM

For me, the fan-made content was always the backbone of Heroes 2-5 surviving. You can't physically separate the story from the campaigns quality, from the original maps quality, and then is like watching a film a 20$ budget claiming to have a Kafka plot level. It just does not fit.

The campaigns for H2 were from far the best, then each sequel offered worst and worst designs. But better and better cut scenes, I agree. However cut scenes are not enough (for me at least) to gather my attention. Compared to Timothy Duncan custom scenarios from H2, this pseudo story from H3-H5 where nothing from the text matches perfectly the map material, I don't buy. And this is where I lost interest about a story made by amateurs (in my opinion) but never lost interest in the game, which allows me to create my own stories and prove my point. When you want to suggest a conflict in the mind of the actors, you don't throw a neat poor designed map or campaign level. You hire a creative guy which is capable to create as well visual devastating effects. Then the story, whatever it is, has a visual support, otherwise it looks like a botched project.

The difference between a writer and a video game scenario writer is that the first has a message to deliver, then choose the art of writing to deliver it physically.  The video game writer is a guy without any personal message to deliver (or at least this is not what we ask from him) but who is paid to quickly imagine an buyable way to write a story matching the game mechanics (hero can die for example, creatures can be hired etc).

Also the most often the scenario writer is not the one who will design the map level. The degree of perfection you have when both skills are reunited (Duncan for H2, Kispalko for H3, Veldrynus for H4) is at light years from the crap the original games offer on the CD.

I think is interesting to point out those griefs. There is no "I hate that game thus let's rape it" approach, but rather an analyse of the missing details failing to integrate into the perfect structure they want us to buy.
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Zombi_Wizzard
Zombi_Wizzard


Famous Hero
posted December 30, 2014 09:08 AM
Edited by Zombi_Wizzard at 09:10, 30 Dec 2014.

Well personaly i never even noticed if they ruined the sotry, because .... I don't do story Never played a campaign ... not in H1 not in H2 ... and i probably never will. I'm not hardcore multiplayer either - my aproach to Heroes was always casual play with my frieds and my brother on LAN 1v1 ... or 2v2 sometimes, and versus computer oponents on larger maps and custom scenarios. Sure I played multiplayer also some, but not that much. Campaign i tried several times, but never liked, and not coz i wasn't interasted in story, but because single missions were exaustingly long - last i remember from H6 where i did a Heaven mission ... i think it was the 4'th or 5'th one, and it took me 5 days, playing at average of about 2 hours a day ... 5 days for a single mission! I forget what the story is about at this point. And custom XL maps were always better for me. That's because once you finish that long grindy mission, there's another one, just as long or longer! And you play the same faction ... again! I never had a will to finish it. And similar case was with earlier titles.

Ashan never bothered me coz of that. I don't delve much into the lore, and don't care. When H7 comes, I know I won't even try the campaign. No I'll not click on menu icon saying "campaign", even.

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JollyJoker
JollyJoker


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
posted December 30, 2014 09:39 AM

The problem with Markal is actually a meta-problem: In HoMM 5 Ashan is - in reality - just been created, so the idea of an evil Necro getting his way and a prince becoming an evil Vampire may sound workable for a writer (staff) that just started.

But of course not only the "audience" has some experience with things - there is also a HISTORY in Ashan at that point. The Necros are long existing, everyone knows about them - and if someone comes back as a Vampire there is no need for them to become evil (or better: becoming a Vampire may be reason to become evil in a Vampire story taking place in Victorian or Elizabethanian England, but definitely not in the Ashan we know). Instead, the princess might have opted to become undying as well.

What I want to say is that everyone freaking out like squeamish 5-year-olds may make sense for perplexed Middle-Agers, but for us and of course for the Ashan ruling classes shouldn't even have been a problem.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 30, 2014 09:45 AM
Edited by artu at 15:29, 30 Dec 2014.

Quote:
It's around the level of "I'm gonna make an account in a forum and spend my time whining about a franchise (in theory) i don't like anymore and say it was raped" but not quite up there.

Sarcasm is for people who can get things right, at least on a primary level, obviously you don't fit in that category.
1- I never whined about H7, I'm waiting to see how it will turn out. A discussion about the ups and downs and comparison of 2D maps and 3D maps is not specifically whining about H7, if you are referring to that.
2- I never said the franchise was raped, (though I don't like ubi stuff much, either), I defended the rights of someone who did, based on the premise that the figurative use of the word is not something to boo and grab the pitchforks about.

And I made the account to ask for help about custom mods that I actually play, then found myself making a few of my own, engaging in conversation about politics, art, philosophy with people from all over the world and make friends. A very nice experience, except every once in a while, someone comes along whom you have to explain the ABC of things, that part is kind of boring and dull.
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emilsn91
emilsn91


Supreme Hero
posted December 30, 2014 10:10 AM

Would someone please give a little praise to HoMM2 I loved that game.

But of course it hasn't been a pleasent journey with the games HoMM5 and HoMM6 (or even HoMM4), but I still enjoyed some parts of them.

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted December 30, 2014 10:15 AM
Edited by Avirosb at 10:24, 30 Dec 2014.

GenyaArikado said:
-You do realize that the point of Isabel is that she is naive and not good at that and only followed because she was their superior. She is not supposed to be Catherine or Emilia. She was easily manipulated, and she is not the first king or queen to be like that (Rasputin and Tsarina Alexandra for example)
So why didn't the other big houses or whatever they're called revolt?
I thought that was a thing that happened regularly, even to far more successful leaders.
And how does she start with advanced leadership if she's a newb?
And how does the player feel, helping a total idiot to victory?

Quote:
Would someone please give a little praise to HoMM2  I loved that game.
Praise be. I struggled with the resource limitations of that game (and archers guarding mines) so to me it was insanely hard,
but I'm not about to dislike a game just because I suck at it.
It was humorous at times, had a nice art style and a brilliant if not inconsistent soundtrack.

Quote:
2- I never said the franchise was raped, (though I don't like ubi stuff much, either), I defended the rights of someone who did,
based on the premise that the figurative use of the word is not something to boo and grab the pitchforks about.
I sense a slight bias.
Now if only the person who got censored would give half a damn.

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emilsn91
emilsn91


Supreme Hero
posted December 30, 2014 02:45 PM

Quote:
Praise be. I struggled with the resource limitations of that game (and archers guarding mines) so to me it was insanely hard,
but I'm not about to dislike a game just because I suck at it.
It was humorous at times, had a nice art style and a brilliant if not inconsistent soundtrack.


When too hard go 32167

Oh I really was a cheating little child at one point

(And yes the soundtrack is legendary)

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 30, 2014 03:02 PM

Avirosb said:
I sense a slight bias.
Now if only the person who got censored would give half a damn.

I didn't mean it like I was protecting him, I dont even know who he is. I was talking about defending something based on a principle, the person who objected against it was also doing that. Btw, I copy pasted around 15 posts to the relevant thread about political correctness, only not to derail this one, so if you have anything else of substance to say, please do it over there. I highly doubt that you do, though.
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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted December 30, 2014 03:31 PM
Edited by Avirosb at 15:32, 30 Dec 2014.

artu said:
I didn't mean it like I was protecting him, I dont even know who he is. I was talking about defending something based on a principle, the person who objected against it was also doing that. Btw, I copy pasted around 15 posts to the relevant thread about political correctness, only not to derail this one, so if you have anything else of substance to say, please do it over there. I highly doubt that you do, though.
The fact you didn't PM me this makes me think you actually want this derail to continue.
You're still making arguments in this very topic.

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted December 30, 2014 03:36 PM

emilsn91 said:
When too hard go 32167
Believe me, I did

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted December 30, 2014 03:44 PM
Edited by artu at 15:45, 30 Dec 2014.

Avirosb said:
The fact you didn't PM me this makes me think you actually want this derail to continue.
You're still making arguments in this very topic.

No, I reply to a silly jab in which you directly quote and misrepresent my post, when it wasn't even you who I was speaking to.
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