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Kimarous
Supreme Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 04:32 AM |
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Edited by Kimarous at 04:33, 02 Jun 2016.
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I was playing earlier and scrolled over the Master of (Element) skills, noticing that, according to the tooltip, not only enhanced the spell of (Element), but apparently gifts that spell as well. Was it always like that or is that an addition brought by the mod? It's been a long time since I last played H5 and I never recall taking said skills back in the day.
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Aionb
Known Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 08:13 AM |
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 02, 2016 09:45 AM |
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magnomagus said:
I often play academy without artificer on my main, but there is no excuse for not having a HP boost artifact on the gremlins (no matter how weak), a secondary hero can always make a few useful weak artifacts.
Good idea! But I doubt a couple of HP and init points would have helped in the current situation. Probably init would have made it worse because mages would hit me more often  .
azalen said:
Have you noticed how no one talks about the poor orcs in 5.5 anymore?
One eye is thrown there and waiting. Next game I will go for stronghold and see whats up. Basically they are the easiest to balance currently.
Skeggy said:
Dredknight, could you post what was configuration of the Heroes?
Seer skills:
Expert Luck -> resistance| Soldier Luck -> critical hit.
Expert attack -> archery -> flaming balista
Expert summoning
Expert Enlightenment -> intelligence -> Arcane Exaltation
Expert War Machines -> All the way to tripple balista
Basic defense
Expert Logistics -> Estates | Scouting
As I said my skills are not ment for battle, they are meant to outrun the opponent in the game. Even If I change Logistics for expert light or artificier I have only 1 anti-magic per turn and artificier do not offer any counters against frenzy/puppet.
The opponent hero skills:
Expert Summoning -> Summoning -> fire elementals
Expert destruction -> all the way up to ignite
Expert enlightenment -> intelligence
Expert Runelore
Expert Defense -> Vitality
Advanced luck -> Soldiers luck (which is damn strong perk for forrtess)
Expert sorcery
and tome of dark.
So he has a 3 schools to play with against me. Also I gave him some 30-35k to restat skills before battle (which he did under the supervision of my greatest PvP enemy  ).
Bottom line - I dont think that Fortress are that strong due to a lot of issues with resources they are always a bit behind. It is the runes and soldiers luck perk that makes them over the top faction!
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 10:20 AM |
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Any plan on how Frenzy would be set up?
First of all, since it will be 2 turns, it will be extremly hard to cast. The opponent (if human) can play around it, moving his creatures out of the way and laugh at you after it attacks your own army.
So, in order to balance that risk out (IMO), it needs to have impact if it does work. After all, you use your hero's turn and risk of it going awry after all.
So, if it is a T3 Spell, how about something like:
150% + 5%
150% + 10%
150% + 15%
150% + 20%
and costing around 5-7. What do you guys think?
Giving the Pit Lord the new frenzy instead of Meteor Shower could be interesting at well 
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 02, 2016 10:45 AM |
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First, Frenzy - 150% base is totally nuts.
Second, if it is possible rune duration should be lowered from 1 turn to something less between 0.5-0.75.
This is due because the effect of the runes that have duration (dragonform) can be used in 2 consecutive acts.
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 10:59 AM |
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Uh, sorry, mixed up the names. Meant Berserk (since it is called Frenzy in HoMM III, as to speak, the corresponding spell).
So, at 150%, it would deal 50% additional damage as base.
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 12:31 PM |
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Quote:
I have tested my idea and i think it works great, not only does it fix the balance and puppet master+frenzy almost identical in purpose it also opens a whole new array of tactical moves (since the old spell was too expensive for that)
I don't think the AI will be a problem since the spell could already be cast on friendlies, I think it will simply not use it.
In a way it's sad that the AI won't use it, because it's one of the few challenges that AI ever offers me in terms of getting some of my troops killed, and this itself is rare.
Any thoughts on my idea for Puppet Master? Have the SP boost the creature's initiative, but have a static duration for all SP levels, so that the unit can act more times or less times based on SP, but the effect is otherwise approximately the same for all heroes.
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isti1222
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 02, 2016 02:00 PM |
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@Gidoza: [url]https://mega.nz/#!shl2mQQR!7vTTRrzlvvpeobeqMMyfU8arLCEksYfggOdfIQBc2T8[/url]
I think it will be easier this way
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Gidoza
Famous Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 04:07 PM |
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It sure is! Now where do I put it? Thank you!!!
This would be a useful thing to have in the next version of H5.5, too!
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 02, 2016 05:11 PM |
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My current idea about frenzy was x1.3 x1.4 x1.5 x1.6 + x0.01 per SP
I will also add the speed boost.
@gidoza: unlikely since all durations so far have been SP dependant in H5.5 and I want the spell to become pointless in the hands of weak casters.
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isti1222
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 02, 2016 05:20 PM |
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Gidoza said:
It sure is! Now where do I put it? Thank you!!!
This would be a useful thing to have in the next version of H5.5, too!
Heroes 5 directory, UserMODs folder if u need, i can make a fix for renegades, (idk if its fixed yet, cuz i'm playing on old version -5.53 sadly only have mobile network  )
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 05:30 PM |
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Should Frenzy also lower defense like it does in H3? Will it work for shooters?
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 05:48 PM |
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Can't lower defense, but you can't control your unit either as well.
Meaning, it will randomly attack the nearest unit, be it friend or foe.
As stated before, I rather would have become this a weapon. With your iteration, Magno, wouldn't it be close to uselessness?
Lets say, you would have 30 SP. That would make Frenzy giving a dmg boni of 1.6 + .3 = 1.9, so, not even double damage.
In return, you loose control of the unit, need to be aware of its placement and you can't cast spells like mass weakness/curse, puppetmaster, vampirism.
Given the choice, I would rather cast one of these, instead.
If you view a low level hero, you will be around 1.5, so, 50% more damage and control loss for one turn (given it to be basic dark)
Rather than boosting your creatures slightly, casting decay or debuffs still better, IMO.
I simply can't see where you would place that spell with these values. It is, after all, risky to use it.
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dredknight
Honorable
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
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posted June 02, 2016 08:39 PM |
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I have another thought about fortress today.
Keep the runes as they are or change the tiers as per your proposal.
This will reduce the efficiency of other runes to some extent as well because you cant position your units easily as you can do now.
Basically when I grind with Fortress in PvE rune of speed is the best rune as I tend to use it on bears or thanes to block archers.
Than thanes are easily ressurected with tent or light.
it will slow down engineers a bit.
Flamekeepers do not need rune of speed at all they manage the battlefield with spells (destruction). The problem with them having a rune of speed is that in PvP they both gain the goods of a mage (high spellpower and sorcery) and a warrior because of runes (high speed, moral boosts, creature stat boosts).
From the games I have played strategic positioning is half of the battle and rune of speed easily gives that advantage to fortress.
What do you think?
Btw tomorrow we will start a new game - Stronghold vs Fortress vs Haven on large map. I am not sure how to disable runes but if you tell me I will do it and we will test how it goes.
Let me know if you have any other thing in mind that you want to test.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 02, 2016 08:47 PM |
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I am curious how stronghold fares vs fortress after that massive bloodrage nerf.
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 02, 2016 09:29 PM |
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Quote:
Keep the runes as they are or change the tiers as per your proposal.
or = and? then I agree, otherwise I don't understand your post
disabling runes? how about not pick the skill.
@Nordos: I want it to work the same as you want it, I'm not sure exactly how difficult it will be to use frenzy against neutrals, maybe it isn't so hard to use at all, haven't tested enough.
@Elvin: Bloodrage can be balanced with mathematics, therefore I have little doubt about it. Runes is more difficult in that respect mainly because modding is more restricted. If Fortress > Stronghold, then Fortress is almost certain the issue.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted June 02, 2016 09:35 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:37, 02 Jun 2016.
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Losing control of the unit for 2 turns seems to great of a drawback for a buff. If only the spell could give the berserker's ability..
EDIT:
I know, you have been very meticulous about your changes. But like you said, rune effects are hard to quantify..
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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hakuryou
Tavern Dweller
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posted June 02, 2016 09:47 PM |
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Maybe you could add a hidden effect to the expert dark skill that lowers the mastery level of frenzy (just like magic shatter skills) but increases spell power when casting the spell?
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magnomagus
Admirable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
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posted June 02, 2016 09:50 PM |
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Nordos
Known Hero
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posted June 02, 2016 10:01 PM |
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I guess it being a mind-control type of spell is hardcoded? Would hate to see it completely useless (without Cloak of Sandro, which is a relic) for Necropolis
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