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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 306 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 60 120 180 240 300 ... 302 303 304 305 306 · «PREV / NEXT»
magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 08, 2017 11:43 PM

@StrikerX: there are no might heroes in H55 with sorcery, might heroes are supposed to use empathy for boosting hero turns, that applies to chieftains as well.
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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted October 09, 2017 12:53 AM

magnomagus said:
@StrikerX: there are no might heroes in H55 with sorcery, might heroes are supposed to use empathy for boosting hero turns, that applies to chieftains as well.


I wasn't suggesting might heroes had sorcery?  In my mind the only reason one would play stronghold and chieftain would be to use blood rage and shouts though.  Seems like this would make playing against Stronghold faction easier as well.

I guess I haven't played with this new version enough.  I don't know what this empathy is for boosting hero turns?

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 09, 2017 12:59 AM

Quote:
In my mind the only reason one would play stronghold and chieftain would be to use blood rage and shouts though.


Shouting skill is not needed for that at all, shouting is a very odd skill and adds little more than sorcery would add to a knight.
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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted October 09, 2017 01:09 AM
Edited by Nargott at 01:13, 09 Oct 2017.

So after all discussion I recommend to try test at internal build all units with -1 speed penalty. Not for to do that in public release version, but simply to understand how lower speed is played. So after this you may do a practical conclusion about which options are good and which are not.

In first version of WGE I had started with 50% of speeds (4-8 range to 2-4 range), it was very slow but it help to understand what type of speeds I want to get, later I became to 3-6 range, and even later returned high speed flyers (+2 modifier). I did not immediately come to understand what speeds are good, tests were required.

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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted October 09, 2017 01:19 AM

magnomagus said:
Quote:
In my mind the only reason one would play stronghold and chieftain would be to use blood rage and shouts though.


Shouting skill is not needed for that at all, shouting is a very odd skill and adds little more than sorcery would add to a knight.


Seems like 36% cast speed, Shout of Rage, Shout Training, Mighty shout would be quite useful as a Chieftain, and maybe even Distract (would be good to have against mages?). More so than a shatter I may never need.

Just seems odd to me is all that chieftain's don't get a chance for the one skill tailored for them  Thanks for replies.

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 09, 2017 07:23 AM

StrikerX said:

Just seems odd to me is all that chieftain's don't get a chance for the one skill tailored for them  Thanks for replies.


I had a gripe about this too but if you think about it Chieftain without Shouting just enables yet another play style. In practice, Stronghold has more hero classes than other factions
(Haven also has a fourth one... the Renegades)

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Skeggy
Skeggy


Known Hero
posted October 09, 2017 11:24 AM

I suppose it would be reasonable that Sylvan archers (T3) has 6 speed instead of 5. After all they are low on armor (and health), so +1 speed is somewhat natural consequence.




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azalen
azalen


Hired Hero
posted October 09, 2017 10:23 PM

If we are talking about speed, what about the Sylvan blitz?

They have a bunch of devastating offensive units at 7 speed: dryads, unicorns, dancers.  
Every Sylvan end game might hero is going to have aura of swiftness and tactics (in my opinion), so that means all these high init units are going to wreck you first turn (the ol' Wyngaal issue). You have a level 1 unit with an insane package of offensive abilities:  spray attack/no retaliation, which will be pumped to the moon with +1 damage talents/artis.

Heck, I can't even get my untamed cyclops to cross the field with all those talents, and it's T7 compared to T1.

Maybe I'm not up to date, and Sylvan speed was nerfed recently - I dunno.

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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 09, 2017 10:33 PM

Skeggy said:
I suppose it would be reasonable that Sylvan archers (T3) has 6 speed instead of 5. After all they are low on armor (and health), so +1 speed is somewhat natural consequence.







I don't think "why not?" is a good reason to change things. Speed of 5 is perfectly appropriate for Sylvan T3. With all the speed reductions, 6 would be categorized as "fast" anyway and there is no reason to warrant that for them.


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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 09, 2017 11:18 PM

well, in sylvans defense there are other factions that can also get that much creatures to the other side with those skills
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azalen
azalen


Hired Hero
posted October 10, 2017 06:10 AM

Remember when you took away Rune of Charge from those poor, innocent dwarves?  Or when you took away 25 initiative Gremlins from poor, innocent Havez?  The time has come to stop beating around the bush and swing the nerf bat, hard, at those OP elves...

14 init, 7 speed, no retaliation, multi attack, good stats... for tier 1?  The nuts.

15 init, 7 speed, +16 defense on retaliation... for tier 2?  Heck, that's just 1 less than fury initiative!  Not bad for what is supposed to be a below average unit.

Arcane Archers... 11 initiative and nuff said

Druids... have some 100 spell power, sir!, and a few lightning bolts to boot!

Unicorns; 12 init, 7 speed, good stats, and no-sir,  you can not implode my arcanes!

Treats... ok, they are weak

Crystals... nuff said

So, you have arguably the best ranged setup in the game, every one of the walkers, save treants, can walk the battlefield turn 1 with a garden variety build and have crazy initiative and specials.... AND their tier 7 can beat out swift mind and goes first against other T7s.

One of these factions does not look like the others

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Tastes like chicken
posted October 10, 2017 08:30 AM
Edited by Elvin at 08:33, 10 Oct 2017.

I don't mind the dryad and dancer stats, they have low growth. Nor is there an issue with any other unit, save maybe high druid special. The problem has always been what sylvan can do with aura of swiftness and/or tactics while packing some decent attack, favourable avenger targets or luck.

That would never happen if only dragons could reach the other side in one turn. Maybe dryads too. But if you also add unicorns and wind dancers(are they still 7 speed?) on the first turn charge, the arcanes and druids will be the least of your problems.
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StrikerX
StrikerX


Known Hero
The Bringer of Rain
posted October 11, 2017 01:42 AM
Edited by StrikerX at 01:44, 11 Oct 2017.

Does H55_AICheatMode in setting.lua govern the amount of extra troops they get every week or just resources?  The difficulty setting also shows like AI Creaturers + but is this governed by the the cheatmode setting or is that separate?  

Looking to tone down the amount of extra troops they get but still keep it on heroic setting.  I know there is the casual setting but was looking for something inbetween.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted October 11, 2017 12:51 PM

I vaguely remember there was a discussion about AI aggressivity in the past and I then raised it, but perhaps not enough.

I wonder if other people (other than StrikerX) want the AI to be more aggressive by default?

@StrikerX:

Cheatmode only deals with the amount of creatures, the difficulty slider affects the maximum tier level of the creatures.
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dace
dace

Tavern Dweller
posted October 11, 2017 02:20 PM

azalen said:
Remember when you took away Rune of Charge from those poor, innocent dwarves?  Or when you took away 25 initiative Gremlins from poor, innocent Havez?  The time has come to stop beating around the bush and swing the nerf bat, hard, at those OP elves...



It's good to see someone has a little sense here!!!


azalen said:
Treats... ok, they are weak


Are jour joking??? What about 175 (or more) HP, entangling roots, Take Roots, Symbiosis?! Perfect to protect thoses f*%&ing Arcane archers!

Have a good day!

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etore
etore


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2017 02:22 PM

magnomagus said:
I wonder if other people (other than StrikerX) want the AI to be more aggressive by default?

+1

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Nargott
Nargott


Known Hero
posted October 11, 2017 02:57 PM

azalen said:
14 init, 7 speed, no retaliation, multi attack, good stats... for tier 1?  The nuts.


azalen said:
Treats... ok, they are weak

Week growth don't take into account?
Butterflies die from one sneeze, but treants are the key tank unit, for example, 5 treants > 4 champions easy.

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dace
dace

Tavern Dweller
posted October 11, 2017 03:48 PM

azalen said:
Treats... ok, they are weak

Week growth don't take into account?
Butterflies die from one sneeze, but treants are the key tank unit, for example, 5 treants > 4 champions easy.


And Treant Saplings?!

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azalen
azalen


Hired Hero
posted October 11, 2017 05:51 PM

In a resource constrained environment, Treants are an opportunity cost thing.  

Can you perform some shenanigans with Treants? Sure, they are still T6.  The question is, are those shenanigans worth what you could do otherwise with your gold/resources?

They don't really play into the Sylvan might hero strategy of landing high initiative,  lucky, avenger strikes first turn.  They just stand around while your other units wreck the opponent.  

You sure as heck don't need them for creeping.

They take money/wood away from racing to dragons as fast as possible and upgrading your other structures, If it comes down to having dragons vs treats, we all know which one you are taking.

So, are they really worth the gold you spend when they don't really contribute much to the immediate offensive potential of your army?  Not really.. they just give you staying power for end game battles.  If you have the cash to burn, then you buy them... more stacks is better.

Best use of Treants?  Armageddon fodder for a Druid . Take roots and let the asteroids rain.

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Elessar
Elessar


Adventuring Hero
posted October 11, 2017 06:04 PM

StrikerX said:
magnomagus said:
@StrikerX: there are no might heroes in H55 with sorcery, might heroes are supposed to use empathy for boosting hero turns, that applies to chieftains as well.


I wasn't suggesting might heroes had sorcery?  In my mind the only reason one would play stronghold and chieftain would be to use blood rage and shouts though.  Seems like this would make playing against Stronghold faction easier as well.

I guess I haven't played with this new version enough.  I don't know what this empathy is for boosting hero turns?


Just something which has bugged me for awhile, and the above reminded me.  Sorcery speeds up casting intervals, right?

So why is Swift Mind, which moves your hero to the top of the turn 1 queue, an Enlightenment subskill?  It naturally should only be available to magic heroes, right?  I know I try to get it for my Ranger as soon as possible...

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