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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 404 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 80 160 240 320 ... 400 401 402 403 404 · «PREV / NEXT»
E1ChuRich
E1ChuRich


Hired Hero
posted December 02, 2019 11:18 AM

thGryphn said:
I think we have substantial knowhow on balancing, so I don't see that as a problem. I'm rather concerned about game engine's capabilities. If a new faction requires changes to the exe, that might be the real problem.

Also, regarding graphics, porting creatures is one thing, townscreen and adventure buildings is yet another... Considering all the 3D and 2D textures, it would be a lot of work.



Can't you guys ''borrow'' the town and creature models from the already existing Sanctuary mod? xD
Maybe they would even let you use their models?

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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted December 02, 2019 11:23 AM

Wouldn't say so.

Unless you switch it for some other faction, which for me will be boring as it will be all about new graphics, it becomes very tricky.

For example, now we have 4 evil factions and 4 good factions. Each faction having 18 heroes apart for Stronghold and Haven (an evil one and a good one) each having 2 more (20 heroes).
So when you rescue a hero from a prison or have the option to hire a hero out of your own faction in the tavern, you have about the same chance of getting a hero from an evil faction as a hero from a good faction (with a slight advantage to a hero from the other aligned faction, as you already have heroes and they are aligned to your faction, be it evil or good).
So if we add say 18 more heroes, they will all be evil or all be good. Which means rescuing such a hero from a prison makes things unfair, as if its an evil faction evil factions in general will have an edge when they rescue a hero from a prison, same goes for the tavern.

So you can say, ok let them be neutral. But then, what happens to the morale if a neutral hero commands a good / evil creature?
And I don't think a neutral faction will be that interesting, as it will likely be the faction of elementals, or something like that.

This is just an example, there are many other issues that can come.
If we make it too strong then in a PvP it is likely to be picked way more often. If we make it too weak, then nobody will play it, and it will be hard buffing it as the weak points of that faction won't be revealed unless somebody plays it.

I think lately PvP is becoming more popular, so balance is more important then it was before. You can have a different mod with another faction in it, but I don't think it will fit H5.5 that well, unless done in a very good way.

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E1ChuRich
E1ChuRich


Hired Hero
posted December 02, 2019 11:42 AM

Bulya said:
Wouldn't say so.

Unless you switch it for some other faction, which for me will be boring as it will be all about new graphics, it becomes very tricky.

For example, now we have 4 evil factions and 4 good factions. Each faction having 18 heroes apart for Stronghold and Haven (an evil one and a good one) each having 2 more (20 heroes).
So when you rescue a hero from a prison or have the option to hire a hero out of your own faction in the tavern, you have about the same chance of getting a hero from an evil faction as a hero from a good faction (with a slight advantage to a hero from the other aligned faction, as you already have heroes and they are aligned to your faction, be it evil or good).
So if we add say 18 more heroes, they will all be evil or all be good. Which means rescuing such a hero from a prison makes things unfair, as if its an evil faction evil factions in general will have an edge when they rescue a hero from a prison, same goes for the tavern.

So you can say, ok let them be neutral. But then, what happens to the morale if a neutral hero commands a good / evil creature?
And I don't think a neutral faction will be that interesting, as it will likely be the faction of elementals, or something like that.

This is just an example, there are many other issues that can come.
If we make it too strong then in a PvP it is likely to be picked way more often. If we make it too weak, then nobody will play it, and it will be hard buffing it as the weak points of that faction won't be revealed unless somebody plays it.

I think lately PvP is becoming more popular, so balance is more important then it was before. You can have a different mod with another faction in it, but I don't think it will fit H5.5 that well, unless done in a very good way.



Well I think this is overthinking. Let's be honest most of us play this game singleplayer because it's a damn good game and an amazing mod. So I don't think many people care about the number of heroes and some don't even know there are good and evil factions in this game. I may be wrong tho.

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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted December 02, 2019 11:48 AM

If so I think you play a very different games then the one me and my friends play.

Which perhaps means that doing that for the sake of adding a faction not caring about balance will ruin the game we play.
So it actually means that it will have to be a different mod.

BTW, another issue is the AI. Will the AI handle the new faction well? As it will have new stuff that he is unfamiliar with, unless you switch it for an existing faction and just change the graphics and make the stats and abilities the same as it is now (which is the boring way of doing it, in my opinion).

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E1ChuRich
E1ChuRich


Hired Hero
posted December 02, 2019 12:04 PM

Bulya said:
If so I think you play a very different games then the one me and my friends play.

Which perhaps means that doing that for the sake of adding a faction not caring about balance will ruin the game we play.
So it actually means that it will have to be a different mod.

BTW, another issue is the AI. Will the AI handle the new faction well? As it will have new stuff that he is unfamiliar with, unless you switch it for an existing faction and just change the graphics and make the stats and abilities the same as it is now (which is the boring way of doing it, in my opinion).


Those are good points. How did HotA crew do it in HoMM3 with Cove?

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 02, 2019 12:46 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 12:52, 02 Dec 2019.

In theory (if you have access to the source code) it is possible to keep chances for evil or good heroes appearing 50/50 even if the pool of one is bigger.

The only real issue with new towns is the people and skills required to add a townscreen and creatures of the same professional quality as the existing factions. The sanctuary mod is nowhere near that quality level.

You can port over all H6 creatures and process the textures to look like H5 textures, this way you will have the advmap town model and one upgrade line of creatures, but you still need to make the 3d townscreen and a 2nd upgrade line that doesn't look like just recolors
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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted December 03, 2019 08:18 PM
Edited by dredknight at 20:20, 03 Dec 2019.

Hello KeyC0le,

by meshes do you mean skeletons and their animations?
I can advise checking Esto100nec channel uploads. I hope that was what you are looking for.

Also if you want to communicate with people that work on textures and designs for heroes 5 I would suggest joining MMH55 discord channel and saying a word in #models-and-textures channel.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 04, 2019 01:14 PM

h55 currently has no 3d modders, google for a h5 tool named 'archangel' i believe maker was pesmontis
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 04, 2019 02:58 PM

those were copy pasted from treant mod, maker is long gone
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AlexAnt
AlexAnt


Hired Hero
posted December 06, 2019 09:47 AM

Hello!
If I captured a city of a certain faction, will this fact increase the likelihood of a hero coming from the captured faction next week?

Have you thought about canceling the morale bonus and penalty for the fact that the hero and his creatures are from the same or different factions?

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 07, 2019 11:29 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 23:30, 07 Dec 2019.

currently it is not possible to affect those kind of morale bonuses
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AlexAnt
AlexAnt


Hired Hero
posted December 08, 2019 04:21 PM

magnomagus said:
currently it is not possible to affect those kind of morale bonuses

If you can't do it with reverse engineering you could ask Quantomas.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted December 08, 2019 05:44 PM

now I read it again, I actually thought you were talking about something else, I don't think I want to change this at all, since the current system is realistic, completely what players expect and not an issue in any way.

Also just as a general note, I'm not going to ask Quantomas about every little random idea that pops up, he has enough on his plate already.
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AlexAnt
AlexAnt


Hired Hero
posted December 08, 2019 07:19 PM

magnomagus said:
now I read it again, I actually thought you were talking about something else, I don't think I want to change this at all, since the current system is realistic, completely what players expect and not an issue in any way.

Also just as a general note, I'm not going to ask Quantomas about every little random idea that pops up, he has enough on his plate already.

Sorry, I thought you also didn't like the situation in which an evil hero reduces the morale of good soldiers and vice versa.

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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted December 12, 2019 03:52 PM

Guys we made it into MODDB top 100 for 2019!

Vote in the second round lets see where we stand .
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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Adventuring Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 14, 2019 10:09 PM

While people are still talking about adding Sanctuary I'll just drop a rough draft of what it could look like in HoMM5.5 should you guys ever decide to add it.

Might Hero: Shogun
Class Skill: Leadership
Main Skills: Combat, Attack
Major Skills: Defense, Enlightenment
Minor Skills: Luck, Light Magic, War Machines, Logistics
Misc Skills: Shatter Dark, Shatter Destruction, Summoning Magic, Sorcery

Mixed Hero: Monk
Class Skill: Enlightenment
Main Skills: Light Magic, Luck
Major Skills: Shatter Dark, Leadership
Minor Skills: Defense, Logistics, Summoning Magic, Occultism
Misc Skills: Attack, Destruction Magic, Sorcery, War Machines

Magic Hero: Tide Caller
Class Skill: Destruction Magic
Main Skills: Summoning Magic, Occultism
Major Skills: Sorcery, Enlightenment
Minor Skills: Light Magic, Logistics, Luck, Dark Magic
Misc Skills: Attack, Defense, War Machines, Leadership

Creatures:

Tier 1: Nymph --> Oceanid/Spring Spirit
Tier 2: Kappa --> Kappa Shoya/Kappa Warrior
Tier 3: Shark Guard  --> Shark Raider/Shark Soldier
Tier 4: Yuki-Onna --> Ice Princess/Snow Maiden
Tier 5: Hippocampus --> Kelpie/Capricorn
Tier 6: Samurai (H3 Naga) --> Honor Guard/Blademaster
Tier 7: Kirin --> Leviathan/Mystic Kirin
____________
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=44170
^ my dead proposal thread. Maybe I'll update it again someday
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=44815
^ My novelization of HoMM 5

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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted December 15, 2019 11:19 AM

Check the Sandro's cloack artifact to prevent mind immunities.
Didn't check its whole potential, but it can make you us mind control on undead creatures.

I think using it on something like red dragons, bersekers, and others that have simple mind immunity has to do it, just like it has in the description.

But I didn't check it on elemental creatures for example, so I could be wrong here.

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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted December 15, 2019 11:33 AM

@Rimmgrabber a couple of rules that define MMH55 class system:
- Combat, War Machines, Leadership are Might only skills
- Sorcery, Occultism, Destruction are Magic only skills
- Sorcery and Leadership never go together.
- Combat and Occultism never go together.
- All heroes should have Enlightenment, Luck and Logistics

You may also want to check
this read for in-depth description.

Your proposals are a good start but a couple of points should be taken such us:
- Make the new classes as different as possible from existing ones
- Decide the affinity of the faction - :
---> Is it going to be clean slate: Default Might, Default Balanced, Default Magic classes (Fortress, Sylvan, Necro, Dungeon)
---> Is it is going to be tilted to one side - Might affinity (like Haven and Stronghold), Magic affinity (Academy)
---> Is it going to be default but with huge disparity between classes (Inferno primary skill chances)

Those questions got to be answered based on the lore of the faction.
And I think you can fill a lot of the blind spots here .
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted December 15, 2019 02:42 PM

Bulya said:
Check the Sandro's cloack artifact to prevent mind immunities.
Didn't check its whole potential, but it can make you us mind control on undead creatures.

I think using it on something like red dragons, bersekers, and others that have simple mind immunity has to do it, just like it has in the description.

But I didn't check it on elemental creatures for example, so I could be wrong here.




It seems he's looking for a protection artifact.

There is no such artifact for Hypnotize, but only for Frenzy and Blind...

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Adventuring Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted December 15, 2019 05:49 PM

dredknight said:
@Rimmgrabber a couple of rules that define MMH55 class system:
- Combat, War Machines, Leadership are Might only skills
- Sorcery, Occultism, Destruction are Magic only skills
- Sorcery and Leadership never go together.
- Combat and Occultism never go together.
- All heroes should have Enlightenment, Luck and Logistics

You may also want to check
this read for in-depth description.




Ah thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I just went off skills I could remeber off the top of my head.


Quote:
Your proposals are a good start but a couple of points should be taken such us:
- Make the new classes as different as possible from existing ones
- Decide the affinity of the faction - :
---> Is it going to be clean slate: Default Might, Default Balanced, Default Magic classes (Fortress, Sylvan, Necro, Dungeon)
---> Is it is going to be tilted to one side - Might affinity (like Haven and Stronghold), Magic affinity (Academy)
---> Is it going to be default but with huge disparity between classes (Inferno primary skill chances)

Those questions got to be answered based on the lore of the faction.
And I think you can fill a lot of the blind spots here .


I'm not an expert on the lore but based on what I do know, Sanctuary has a very similar culture to ancient Japan and has a high reverence for warriors, but also has a strong affinity for water and air magic. Based on that, I think it would be similar to the first 4 factions you mentioned; no strong tilt towards either might or magic. I didn't look at the other classes skill wheels because I couldn't find them outside of the game, but I'll look at it more closley and clean up my proposal a bit. I appreciate the feedback
____________
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=44170
^ my dead proposal thread. Maybe I'll update it again someday
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=44815
^ My novelization of HoMM 5

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