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Heroes Community > Heroes 5 - Modders Workshop > Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5
Thread: [MOD] Might & Magic: Heroes 5.5 This Popular Thread is 401 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 80 160 240 320 ... 397 398 399 400 401 · «PREV / NEXT»
Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted November 09, 2019 08:50 PM

magnomagus said:
it is exactly the other way around since, wm is might skill, so used by might heroes as alternative to destruction magic. In the end it is about the visual immersion of the player. As in an rpg were a barbarian fights with axe and mage with staff, they still get the same results, dead enemies.

I am 100% with you that you have to preserve the core vision of a game, or even to make it stronger.

I only could spend scant time to look at MMH55 so far, but having watched Aruarian's excellent livestream, I am picking things up bit by bit.

It seems you did a good job keeping the community alive and working on the game to make it more attractive. It is not easy. Good work!

I have a different understanding of balance, stemming from my work mostly. The comments I made were solely to explore the structural dependencies of the rules. Things like the ballista and hero action should be seen in unison. This could be used in accordance with the vision and lore as well.

Regarding dynamic balance, the general idea is that the AI grades the difficulty of a position once the map and factions are selected. A bit like a player going for slot 1 will face a difficulty of Elo 1300, slot 2 Elo 1700, slot 3 Elo 2200, based on the topology, creep strength, loot distribution and so on. If requested the AI can adapt a position. Creep strength and type and resource/loot distribution would be obvious candidates for balancing. Particularly creep type is not served well yet. Depending on the faction and its hero classes, different creeps, although nominally equal in power, could present entirely different challenges. Dynamic map balancing would ensure that the map is fair in this respect.

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tzening
tzening


Hired Hero
posted November 10, 2019 04:34 AM
Edited by tzening at 06:59, 10 Nov 2019.

I can't use the Town Management function in TOTE's final campaign. Zehir's Town Management button isn't working. Is it because of the whole flying city function?
EDIT: Also will artifacts carry over like the previous campaigns? Got a sacrifice pit and I need all the exp I can get.

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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted November 10, 2019 09:09 AM

I also concur to the vision, things should be simple for the player with as little meaningless bureaucracy as possible.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 10, 2019 12:31 PM

Quote:
I only could spend scant time to look at MMH55 so far, but having watched Aruarian's excellent livestream, I am picking things up bit by bit.


the easiest way to get up to speed is to check the skillwheels in dredknights offline manual or ingame skillwheels, the main philosophy is described here, although this article is outdated you can largely ignore everything below 'spell sytem'

Quote:
It seems you did a good job keeping the community alive and working on the game to make it more attractive. It is not easy. Good work!


Thanks

Quote:
Regarding dynamic balance, the general idea is that the AI grades the difficulty of a position once the map and factions are selected. A bit like a player going for slot 1 will face a difficulty of Elo 1300, slot 2 Elo 1700, slot 3 Elo 2200, based on the topology, creep strength, loot distribution and so on. If requested the AI can adapt a position. Creep strength and type and resource/loot distribution would be obvious candidates for balancing. Particularly creep type is not served well yet. Depending on the faction and its hero classes, different creeps, although nominally equal in power, could present entirely different challenges. Dynamic map balancing would ensure that the map is fair in this respect.


I guess you are talking about same mine guarded by druids or brawlers etc or distance between mine and town. It's an interesting analysis tool, but I'm not sure how much people want randomization reduced. At least in H3 multiplayer people love to jump in blind in a newly generated random map and the H55 RMG is surely less random than H3, but still very random.

Quote:
I can't use the Town Management function in TOTE's final campaign. Zehir's Town Management button isn't working. Is it because of the whole flying city function?
EDIT: Also will artifacts carry over like the previous campaigns? Got a sacrifice pit and I need all the exp I can get.


1.yes flying city function overwrites
2.I fixed the carryover scripts, but originally only some set artifacts are supposed to carryover, this is unchanged.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 10, 2019 01:51 PM

@Quantomas:

I send you an internal message
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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted November 11, 2019 10:06 AM
Edited by Quantomas at 10:08, 11 Nov 2019.

@Magnomagus

Got it. Sent you an email. I think this works better. If HC Messenger would notify you via email and quote the message it would be useful. But as it is, it is a poor tool unless you are logged in always.

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 11, 2019 12:06 PM
Edited by magnomagus at 12:07, 11 Nov 2019.

that's a good idea for HC admin, but unfortunately I did not receive your email, it seems the sent email button doesn't work (unless it has a long delay), I tested it before posting, trying to sent an email to myself. So instead now I have sent you my email by internal message, so you can use another send mechanism.
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Quantomas
Quantomas


Responsible
Famous Hero
AI Wizard
posted November 11, 2019 02:40 PM

That's odd. I am pretty sure HC said something like email successfully sent. Not working is one thing, but giving false confirmation is a problem.

Anyway, sent you a new one now.

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Galaad
Galaad

Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
posted November 11, 2019 02:56 PM

/offtop

Hmm maybe the best way to get Val's attention is to post in this thread about forum errors.
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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 11, 2019 09:54 PM

Ok I have received the email now, but I don't think it was a delayed HC mail, since I never got my own test email. for the admins information: it was sent to a gmail account.
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tzening
tzening


Hired Hero
posted November 14, 2019 08:21 AM
Edited by tzening at 13:49, 14 Nov 2019.

Stuck at the final mission.

Kujin's fight is unbeatable by default because of her build and 3 legions of Cerberi. I tried to use the bug (rapidly click on the ground to stop them) that triggers manual controls but they don't seem to be responding. If you like let Wulfstan and Freyda just charge in normally, will the bug not apply when it's Kujin's turn?

EDIT: I know this bug is still in effect in here because I tested it with Wulfstan. When itís the orcs turn, I rapidly clicked the nearby ground so that Gotai and give his 900 Cyclops. No such luck.

EDIT 2: Figured out the bug and stopped Kujin before she got herself killed. But when I checked Gotai, his 900 Cyclops are missing and only has a goblin. If you could have removed his 900 Cyclops to avoid breaking the game, why couldn't Kujin's army be buffed instead? And because I had to leave one demon town untouched, it means that the 4 stacks of reinforcements cannot spawn.

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frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 15, 2019 11:00 AM
Edited by frogo at 11:02, 15 Nov 2019.

@tzening: nice to see someone play through the campaigns and note the bugs he finds. I m sure that will help a lot once the campaigns will be reworked


If we are rebalancing ballista anway, i would like to make a suggestion towards something that has been bothering me for a while

The ballista dmg scales with A+K. I assume they chose A and K so every hero would get some increase, magic and might focused alike.
Might heroes still have a stronger ballista, as A helps ballista in dmg and obviously A itself.
But what i always wondered was, if you were trying to make the dmg increase roughly equal for most heroes (apart from the normal bonus from A of course), then why come up with A+K instead of having it scale with hero-lvl like tent and many other things?
I wouldnt care to much if this didnt have a bad side effect, so i would recommend changing it to scale to hero lvl.

Pros that i see:
- more intuitive
- Might heroes arent forced to pick attac when ever they can choose between A and D. (this is what has been bothering me always. Sometimes i d rather like to play defensive, but ballista-formula kinda forces me into A)

Cons that i see:
- it changes a vanilla mechanic.
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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted November 15, 2019 01:04 PM

frogo said:
@tzening: nice to see someone play through the campaigns and note the bugs he finds. I m sure that will help a lot once the campaigns will be reworked


If we are rebalancing ballista anway, i would like to make a suggestion towards something that has been bothering me for a while

The ballista dmg scales with A+K. I assume they chose A and K so every hero would get some increase, magic and might focused alike.
Might heroes still have a stronger ballista, as A helps ballista in dmg and obviously A itself.
But what i always wondered was, if you were trying to make the dmg increase roughly equal for most heroes (apart from the normal bonus from A of course), then why come up with A+K instead of having it scale with hero-lvl like tent and many other things?
I wouldnt care to much if this didnt have a bad side effect, so i would recommend changing it to scale to hero lvl.

Pros that i see:
- more intuitive
- Might heroes arent forced to pick attac when ever they can choose between A and D. (this is what has been bothering me always. Sometimes i d rather like to play defensive, but ballista-formula kinda forces me into A)

Cons that i see:
- it changes a vanilla mechanic.


Regarding the Balista, I think the A+K formal puts it in a good place. Changing it can buff classes that do not require buffs like engineers and knights. And the part where you have to choose between two goods, a little bit more tankier army or a better Balista, is actually good, as strategies come to decision making and here making the proper decision will lead you to a better place rather then a very straightforward way of leveling up.

The magic classes / balanced classes that have more knowledge usually have less SP, so if they go a balista the Balista can somehow make up for the fact that their damage output or spells aren't as strong as of the magic classes that have more SP.
When it comes to might classes, then usually the classes that have more defense (Fortress, Haven) are classes that can drag the battle for way longer then the classes that have more attack then defense (Dungeon, Inferno, Sylvan, Stronghold) as the later classes have way more squishier creatures and its harder for them to make long battles. As a compensation they have a stronger Balista and more damage output in general.
So I actually think the Balista change you propose isn't that good. It may make the game a bit easier by means of decisions when leveling up, but I think we all want a complicated game where each decision have many impacts and you must make them carefully.
Not to speak of the imbalance I talked about regarding Fortress might and Haven might becoming even stronger then what they are now (applies to Necro might as well, BTW).

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frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 15, 2019 01:24 PM
Edited by frogo at 13:26, 15 Nov 2019.

Quote:
And the part where you have to choose between two goods, a little bit more tankier army or a better Balista, is actually good, as strategies come to decision making and here making the proper decision will lead you to a better place rather then a very straightforward way of leveling up.


This is exactly where i see the problem.
Generally the choice between defense and attack should be about if you want more dmg output or tankier units. The way A and D work, the options are rather balanced up to the point where ballista comes in.
Ballista tips the balance in favor of A and mostly makes choosing A a no-brainer. I for one always go for A, i can see aru on his stream, while he generally evalues all options, clicking A without a second thought and i even remeber you asking me if i ever choose D over A.


If the worry is that switching from A+K to Hero_lvl helps magic more (which i doubt, magic probs wouldnt go for ballista as A is important for it even if it wasnt in the dmg-formula), then i also wouldnt mind seeing (A+D+K)*(2/3). Just so that the balance between A and D is re-established.
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thGryphn
thGryphn


Promising
Famous Hero
posted November 15, 2019 01:34 PM

Yeah, I also like that it's A+K. It makes the mechanics and decisions more interesting. This also makes sure K points are valuable for even the might classes.

On an unrelated topic, I had a suggestion with the premise of making SP points valuable for particularly the Barbarian (might) class, in that they would get SP/2 amount of dragonblood crystals to boost earth elemental summoning. Maybe something else, idk. It's just that they are the only class that has no use for SP and it doesn't bode well for me.

What do you guys think?

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magnomagus
magnomagus


Honorable
Legendary Hero
modding wizard
posted November 15, 2019 02:24 PM

I agree with bulya, also level dependancy is kinda boring, I would rather have healing tent scale with D then.

@gryphn: lorewise there is no explanation for this and it is already useful, if the sp countering is too weak it can be made stronger easily.
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frogo
frogo


Hired Hero
posted November 15, 2019 02:29 PM
Edited by frogo at 19:42, 15 Nov 2019.

I see the ballista formula is liked as it is.

Quote:
I would rather have healing tent scale with D then.


This sounds like a very intresting approach to give something to D aswell. Would love to see something like that.
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tzening
tzening


Hired Hero
posted November 15, 2019 02:45 PM

@magnomagus I just finished the campaign. Stopped Kujin from getting herself killed and had Gotai do the work. He actually won the battle.

After that it was sort of smooth sailing, with the Yellow player being an ass and running it's last hero out of the gates into the zones, wasting around a week chasing him.

As for the final battle with Biara, to compensate for the Morale penalties I had to visit the Tattered Flag, Idol of Fortune, the Temple in the 7th day of the week and the Swan Lake just for luck.

I would like to thank the HOMM 5.5 team for their hard work. The legacy of HOMM is secure with you guys, the HOMM3 HOTA team and many other modders on the helm.

Level up fast and pray to RNGeus for the correct skills to show up. Break the game and have fun everyone!!!

HOMM FOREVER!!!

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Bulya
Bulya


Adventuring Hero
posted November 15, 2019 08:03 PM

Quote:

Ballista tips the balance in favor of A and mostly makes choosing A a no-brainer. I for one always go for A, i can see aru on his stream, while he generally evalues all options, clicking A without a second thought and i even remeber you asking me if i ever choose D over A.


If the worry is that switching from A+K to Hero_lvl helps magic more (which i doubt, magic probs wouldnt go for ballista as A is important for it even if it wasnt in the dmg-formula), then i also wouldnt mind seeing (A+D+K)*(2/3). Just so that the balance between A and D is re-established.


I was asking when it comes to might heroes. I think with magic heroes the choice is a bit harder, but goes towards D rather then A.

And not only its the Balista, the more squishier factions like Sylvan and Dungeon (perhaps Stronghold as well) rely a lot on killing the opponent quickly (I'm talking might heroes here), which is why A is more important for them.

For the more tankier factions, like Fortress and Haven I think D can make sense even if they go for Balista, and I thought that may be those are the cases where you pick D over A.
I think if we treat D as what decides how well Tent is rather then A+K, then D would make perfect sense for Haven and Fortress might unless its some sort of a might vs magic match up.

In short I like the idea where D is the factor that determines how good the tent is. Perhaps D can't simply replace the level of the hero in the formula there, but if we make it 2*D or 3*D it certainly can (2*D will nerf Tent overall, for some heroes more for some less, 3*D will nerf Tent for most classes, but some classes will benefit from it).
Perhaps on one hand we'll see more investment into D from Haven and Fortress, while the choice between tripple balista and tent will be a harder one for Sylvan, Stronghold and Dungeon heroes.

*I'm not talking about Necro, Academy and Inferno here because I haven't played enough games with the might heroes of those factions to call any predictions.

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dredknight
dredknight


Responsible
Supreme Hero
disrupting the moding industry
posted November 17, 2019 08:14 PM
Edited by dredknight at 20:15, 17 Nov 2019.

I got reported resurrection artifact bug.
Basically after battle the game resurrects creatures twice, so with high knowledge the player have more units after the battle than before it.

Here is a screenshot of player inventory at the moment of bug happening.

Hero knowledge is 32.

Battle result.

Double resurrection
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