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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: mass shootings in the u.s.
Thread: mass shootings in the u.s. This thread is 19 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 · «PREV / NEXT»
Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted July 18, 2016 01:13 AM
Edited by Corribus at 01:13, 18 Jul 2016.

Minion said:
PolitiFact concluded that more whites than blacks had been killed by police from 1999-2011. PolitiFact points out, however, that blacks only make up 12% of the population. By breaking down racial populations it would appear black men are at a 3.5 times greater risk of being killed by police.

Statistically, aren't black males also much more likely to kill each other and commit violent crimes in general, putting them in proportionally more situations where they are at risk of being arrested and having conflicts with police? Which may or may not have anything to do with their race, of course. So, what's you're point again?
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Elodin
Elodin


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Free Thinker
posted July 18, 2016 01:19 AM
Edited by Elodin at 01:22, 18 Jul 2016.

Shootings by cops and race.

Cops are more likely to shoot if a confrontation involves a white person.

No cop wants to shoot a minority because if they do there will be screams of racism no matter what any video shows and Obam a is likely to send minions to try to make it a case about race. Good cops have lost their carreers because of false allegations in a case gone national.

There are no more than 5-6 "bad shoots" by cops in the US every year.  Considering the number and type of encounters they have that is actually pretty good.

In a perfect world there would be no mistakes but cops have to make split second decisions that determine whether they live or die.  If a cop wants to arrest you and you peacefully comply you won't be shot.  If you resist arrest and make a movement the cop interprets as you reaching for a gun you will probably be shot. That is your fault, not his.  And yeah, in a very, very rare case an officer may shoot somebody while knowing he did not have to shoot them.


The misperception that cops are out hunting black folks is created by:

1)  media rushing to judgement or having an agenda & playing video over and over when a black person is shot by a cop. Can you ever remember a video of a white guy being shot by a cop being played over and over?

2) Race pimps like Al Sharpton who make a living off stirring up racial strife.

3) democrat politicians who are out to solidify minority votes by convincing minorities that white people hate them and only the Democrat Party can save them. Identity politics and cop hate.

4)  Blacks are more likely to commit violent crime and more likely to live in high crime neighborhoods.  So blacks are going to have more confrontational encounters with cops and see.more such encounters

5)  Liberal ideology that pushes whites as oppressors and inherently racist.


How do we correct the misperception?  The mainstream media is not going to stop pushing the false narrative nor are politicians that benefit from the falsehoods.
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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 18, 2016 01:24 AM
Edited by artu at 01:52, 18 Jul 2016.

Salamandre said:
I just want the law to be applied.

Sal, they are not protesting that more black people are in jail, they are protesting that more unarmed black people are getting shot. What has that got to do with applying the law?

I mean, if French politicians are overzealous about racial political correctness, that is one thing but do you really have to filter every issue through your reaction to that?

Elodin said:
The misperception that cops are out hunting black folks is created by...

Most people I read do not suggest that though, they are not talking about a deliberate racial man-hunt. What they say is, because
Elodin said:
4)  Blacks are more likely to commit violent crime and more likely to live in high crime neighborhoods.  So blacks are going to have more confrontational encounters with cops and see more such encounters

cops (and the cop can be black as well) tend to be more hasty with the trigger, even in situations where the black suspect is unarmed. In other words, in those split-second moments, they are more likely to assume a threat, even if there isn't one. Are you suggesting that, this is completely unreal and unarmed black people somehow act suicidal and make crazy moves as if they are armed, although, they are not?

 
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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 18, 2016 01:44 AM

Look, for me the issue is simple: if you think someone was killed for no reason and unarmed, sue the cop who did it,  win the thing and put him to jail. They don't do this because they lost in almost every case, which suggests two possible causes:

a) police is heavily backed by the justice system which in that case, is racist and this is not a "accuse the police" thing but change the whole society -also a thing to observe is that Obama did NOTHING for black minorities in all the time he was leader, or b) the killing was justified despite the fact that the person was unarmed. Given that we talk about a country where billions of guns are in use, better think twice before doing weird movements when a cop tells you to put your hands up.  

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted July 18, 2016 01:47 AM
Edited by Kayna at 01:48, 18 Jul 2016.

Salamandre said:
Kayna said:

What if they target black guys a lot in the first place?


This kind of belief has triggered a lot of blood and destruction, at least in France -moreover you have not a single proof to build your accusation.


Centuries of American history bro. Slavery, civil war, then still stuck drinking water in places designed only for black people, etc... the racism is still there. It's fading away, but it's still there. Saying I have no proof is just refusing to see it, or a total inability to read between lines.

Salamandre said:
Look here in France, 100% of terrorists were Arabs. A smart man will say "pay attention at Arabs, survey them, watch out and report if suspicious activity"


That is also a comparison I find too flimsy to consider serious. You are comparing a race to a religion. 100 % of terrorists in the US aren't black. You need to compare race to race or religion to religion, or similar. You could compare a religion to a government, as they're both groups of people, but a race doesn't compare as easily as it is really just a few genetic differences.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 18, 2016 01:55 AM
Edited by fred79 at 02:00, 18 Jul 2016.

off-topic, semi-rant/

that's what i don't get about the "black lives matter" movement. if the people in this movement really thought that black lives matter, then they would have formed long ago, because blacks are killing blacks by the thousands every year due to gang violence, drug territory, or by the gang culture itself(which dominates in low-income lifestyles which breed criminality and the easy dollar); which is the exact opposite of what Martin Luther King Jr. stood for.

and it's a disgrace; just as much as it is a disgrace for the media and politicians to urge the seperation between whites and blacks, blacks and police, rightists and leftists, etc. it's only ONE of the things that is destroying(and will continue to destroy) any chance the U.S. has of becoming better each year, instead of worse.

imo, the black culture of today, is helping to breed this hatred among each other, and police. it's nothing like the black culture that only wanted equality; it's a culture that not only demands special treatment, but goes out of it's way to pull the race card whenever it's in their favor.

cops(are any of you cops? no.) who has to continually deal with that "i deserve special treatment because of the color of my skin", are hostile towards black people from the ghetto for a reason. none of you(nor i), deal with them on a daily basis, under the circumstances that cops do. no, we get our experiences mostly second-hand, from the biased media.

i mean, seriously. what is a cop(who is supposed to enforce a law), supposed to do, when the majority of the people they deal with, are breaking it? paints a pretty bleak picture of black people(when they're the most locked-up; according to those statistics), wouldn't you say?

imo, the ghetto culture has to be eradicated, if a bridge of any sort is to be built between law enforcement and all black people specifically(since that is what you see the most of, in a ghetto. if you see enough of a certain behavior from a certain race, you will become biased against them. any of us would. to deny that fact, is to deny reality).

all you have to do is watch the show "cops", and you'll see what i'm talking about. i myself, could never be a cop, because i could never excercise the restraint needed, to try and fix a problem that was there since childhood, and reinforced by a rotten culture.

bad parents are one thing; ghetto parents are some of the worst, and they're producing people who are bound to be locked up, just by mentality alone. what is a cop to do, when most of the people who are vehemently against him, are blacks TAUGHT to be against him?

that said, i understand there are far more aspects of this to take into consideration. but to ignore the fact that ghetto children are being brought into the world by ghetto parents and brought up in a hostile and criminal ghetto culture, would be to ignore a HUGE chunk of the problem with black hostility towards authority figures(and in turn, hostility towards blacks by authority figures). bad culture, and bad cops, go hand in hand. you cannot expect one to disappear, if the other exists. and it would be a gradual change anyway, because you always have people trying to exploit a past they were never even part of; and you will always have people who do not WANT to change, but rather exploit everything for their personal gain. these kinds of people will tarnish any just movement.

i also understand, that black people have an active resistance to their efforts at equality(which is why i believe this anti-cop/criminalized behavior ever became prevalent in the first place). martin luther king jr. was killed by a black man who was hired by white men(and most likely later killed off by black men in prison who were enraged at him; which these rotten white snowers would know would happen, to indirectly tie up their own loose end).

it's really no easy problem to fix. blacks are faced with issues from both the white, and the black front. i, for one, would like to see blacks come together like they did with M.L.K. jr, once again. i feel they have enough headway now, to make a real positive change, as a culture.

nobody in the states have assassinated a black leader in a really long time. they desperately NEED another leader. not the ones they have now, either. the leaders they have now are part of the problem.

in order to be seen as equal, you must seek out equality; and JUST that. you cannot DEMAND special treatment, and think that the world will see you as equals. and you cannot expect change overnight, as the old ways take a LONG time to die off.


i'm not going to get into the other aspects that i haven't mentioned, because i feel this point needs driven home. if there is another thread for it, i'll post this there. until then, i'll leave this here, as i think it applies.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted July 18, 2016 01:57 AM

Kayna said:
Saying I have no proof is just refusing to see it, or a total inability to read between lines.


Indeed, I have a hard time to see between the lines, but sticking at lines only made me notice you were rejoicing of the death of "pig cops". As often, the one claiming he is the most righteous is doing the worst blooper.

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artu
artu


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Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 18, 2016 01:58 AM

Salamandre said:
b) the killing was justified despite the fact that the person was unarmed. Given that we talk about a country where billions of guns are in use, better think twice before doing weird movements when a cop tells you to put your hands up.

But then how do you explain that although more armed white people get killed by the police, (since, they are more in numbers in general), more unarmed black people get shot compared to unarmed white people?

Why should they be less cautious about "making sudden moves" especially when they know, they would be more likely to be profiled as a potential suspect? Are they suicidal?
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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted July 18, 2016 02:06 AM

Salamandre said:
Kayna said:
Saying I have no proof is just refusing to see it, or a total inability to read between lines.


Indeed, I have a hard time to see between the lines, but sticking at lines only made me notice you were rejoicing of the death of "pig cops". As often, the one claiming he is the most righteous is doing the worst blooper.


When I said that, I wasn't closing my eyes, but admitting my feelings. Sometimes, I see a cop in the right, and I go full anti cop roleplay anyways. After all, cops do the same with their own, don't they? lol

Once again, a flimsy comparison. Or are you roleplaying hatred of black lives matter when you know they have at least some valid points?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


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Wog refugee
posted July 18, 2016 02:06 AM
Edited by Salamandre at 02:07, 18 Jul 2016.

@artu, I was looking last week at this shocking video and even if I fully condemn the cops poor decisions, you can't say the guy didn't play the idiot, while 3 guns pointed at him.

people can be nuts sometimes. Cops must get a proper training and start protect people, not protect themselves in first place.

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted July 18, 2016 02:09 AM
Edited by Kayna at 02:21, 18 Jul 2016.

fred79 said:
off-topic, semi-rant/

that's what i don't get about the "black lives matter" movement. if the people in this movement really thought that black lives matter, then they would have formed long ago, because blacks are killing blacks by the thousands every year due to gang violence, drug territory, or by the gang culture itself(which dominates in low-income lifestyles which breed criminality and the easy dollar); which is the exact opposite of what Martin Luther King Jr. stood for.


Some people say Black lives matter is funded by certain rich people in hope of creating a very small scale race war, one big enough to have the excuse to militarize the police and take away guns from the people. It might be true. It might also be a feint, the government always tossing some problem at us every year or so so they may have the excuse to militarize police and or remove guns and or get more spying power, problems that are to be emphasized upon when they want to go in action or discarded as a simple feint if they decided not to put that plan in action.

I find this theory very plausible. BLM's leader is indeed funded by a couple million dollars.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Elvin's Lightside
posted July 18, 2016 02:14 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 02:24, 18 Jul 2016.

Hi Artu,

artu said:

cops (and the cop can be black as well) tend to be more hasty with the trigger, even in situations where the black suspect is unarmed. In other words, in those split-second moments, they are more likely to assume a threat, even if there isn't one. Are you suggesting that, this is completely unreal and unarmed black people somehow act suicidal and make crazy moves as if they are armed, although, they are not?


Yes, actually, I think this is highly likely. I don't know if that would factor everything, but I think it would greatly contribute to a higher rate of unarmed blacks being shot. Like I previously said, many blacks grow up & live within a disenfranchised subculture: high rates of gangs, hard drugs, domestic abuse, etc., and young black males in those communities are extremely more likely to do things that are idiotic, because that is how their environment raised them: to be idiotic. A 23-year-old black male that became involved in crime at the age of 10 has no concept of a 401k or growing old. Bear in mind also that within this subculture there is an epidemic of hyper-masculinity, i.e. not having anything to do with your children, constantly needing to appear tough, refusing to compromise, etc.

If you can picture a loosely analogous scenario: how many times have young Palestinian males in impoverished communities made attacks against an Israeli force that is vastly superior? How many Israelis would do the same? Would young Jewish boys - in their subculture - just as quickly provoke a group of armed Palestinians? Do you think it would be proportional or slanted? Do you think Palestinians would, because of the subculture, be more "bold", or "reckless", or "suicidal" or whatever you want to call it?
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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 18, 2016 02:17 AM

artu said:
Why should they be less cautious about "making sudden moves" especially when they know, they would be more likely to be profiled as a potential suspect? Are they suicidal?


i was pulled over by a cop not long ago. i made damn sure that i didn't do anything that was suspect. in fact, i had my driver's license and registration in my hand before he even got to my window. anyone intelligent enough to know that cops can be on edge, would have done that.

just saying, if you have to reach for something after a cop asks you, you're doing it wrong; and you're asking an armed man to likely defend himself if he feels threatened. put yourself in the cop's shoes, and think in that way for a second.

now add to that, attitude or something else equally stupid. a cop expects to be lied to, because he is lied to endlessly in his job. a cop expects a criminal, because many times, he is dealing with one. a cop is TRAINED to deal with a criminal.

if you're a soldier, you can expect violence to likely be a part of your job. if a butcher, you can expect blood, meat, and sharp instruments. if a cop, you can expect to deal with criminals.

imo, in a cops' eyes(especially a seasoned one), you're a criminal until proven otherwise. so don't act like a criminal. act like a civilized human being, even a friend.

i greeted the cop that pulled me over with friendly banter. and because i already had my driver's license and registration out, i didn't have to reach for anything. even though i had a gun on me. because i treated him with respect, and like an equal, he went out of his way to treat me with respect, and even helped me out some with the ticket complications.

also i want to point out, that a cop runs the license plate on your car first, before he even gets out of his car. he finds out who the owner is, and if they have a criminal background. then he runs the driver's license to see if they match up with the vehicle, and also to see if the driver has a criminal background.

protip: if you want to avoid being labeled as a potentially hostile criminal, then don't commit crimes. and if you do anyway, then don't get caught.

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Minion
Minion


Legendary Hero
posted July 18, 2016 02:22 AM
Edited by Minion at 02:24, 18 Jul 2016.

Salamandre said:

Well, if you start me on statistics, let me remember you that black people make 12% of population but are 50% of jails population, which simply means black people are dozens of time more likely to commit crimes and felonies (I am too lazy to do the maths for the correct percentage).



Is that what it means, by default? Because studies find that black and white people use marijuana at roughly the same rates. Yet vast majority of counties arrest blacks at a higher rate than whites, with some having a disparity of greater than 10 to 1. Marijuana possession charges make up nearly half of total drug arrests...


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Elodin
Elodin


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Free Thinker
posted July 18, 2016 02:24 AM

Quote:
...
cops (and the cop can be black as well) tend to be more hasty with the trigger, even in situations where the black suspect is unarmed. In other words, in those split-second moments, they are more likely to assume a threat, even if there isn't one. Are you suggesting that, this is completely unreal and unarmed black people somehow act suicidal and make crazy moves as if they are armed, although, they are not?     



Did you read the link in my post?  Black cops & Hispanic cops are more likely to shoot blacks than white cops are.  Also whites are more likely to be shot in a violent confrontation than blacks are.

The article also discuses "unarmed" shootings.  In many such shootings the perp is beating the cop or trying to take the cops gun before shot.   The term unarmed is deceptive.  It does not mean non-violent.

The article also points out blacks commit disproportionately more violent crimes which means blacks will be in more high steed situations with cops than whites will.

The statistics show cops are less likely to shoot a black man than a white man in a confrontational situation.  The exact opposite of the narrative the left pushes.

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted July 18, 2016 02:25 AM

fred79 said:
imo, in a cops' eyes(especially a seasoned one), you're a criminal until proven otherwise. so don't act like a criminal. act like a civilized human being, even a friend.


Can always offer a blow job to, while we're at it. But not to pay for the ticket... for free! Make sure you emphasize on the free part as you offer it, so he cannot arrest you for trying to bribe him.

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fred79
fred79


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted July 18, 2016 02:29 AM

Kayna said:
Some people say Black lives matter is funded by certain rich people in hope of creating a very small scale race war, one big enough to have the excuse to militarize the police and take away guns from the people. It might be true. It might also be a feint, the government always tossing some problem at us every year or so so they may have the excuse to militarize police and or remove guns and or get more spying power, problems that are to be emphasized upon when they want to go in action or discarded as a simple feint if they decided not to put that plan in action.

I find this theory very plausible. BLM's leader is indeed funded by a couple million dollars.


the people in the states who want to disarm people will use any means possible to disarm them. they'll say it's "for the greater good", when really, it is for their own good, and not the peoples'.

i agree that it is plausible(i also remember reading somewhere that the leader is actually a white woman), that the black lives matter movement could be just such a tool at their disposal. i don't put anything past those rotten snows. whoever those rotten snows ARE.

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Blizzardboy
Blizzardboy


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Elvin's Lightside
posted July 18, 2016 02:30 AM
Edited by Blizzardboy at 02:33, 18 Jul 2016.

Minion said:
Salamandre said:

Well, if you start me on statistics, let me remember you that black people make 12% of population but are 50% of jails population, which simply means black people are dozens of time more likely to commit crimes and felonies (I am too lazy to do the maths for the correct percentage).



Is that what it means, by default? Because studies find that black and white people use marijuana at roughly the same rates. Yet vast majority of counties arrest blacks at a higher rate than whites, with some having a disparity of greater than 10 to 1. Marijuana possession charges make up nearly half of total drug arrests...




How many of these charges are from public use?

What is the frequency of the marijuana use? A marijuana user as in 4 times a week or a marijuana user as in 4 times a year?

Are there crimes that are coefficients with the use of marijuana? i.e. marijuana use + drunk driving, or marijuana use + loitering? Generally speaking, police don't dedicate much resources to arresting people that use marijuana (or drugs in general). It's either for being a distributor or doing something illegal along with drug-use, and then they get caught & arrested.


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fred79
fred79


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Undefeatable Hero
posted July 18, 2016 02:33 AM

Kayna said:
Can always offer a blow job to, while we're at it. But not to pay for the ticket... for free! Make sure you emphasize on the free part as you offer it, so he cannot arrest you for trying to bribe him.


yeah, we all know you hate cops. they're not on my list of favorite people either(for various reasons), but if you fail to understand their mentality, you fail to understand who can hold power over you. and that would be a mistake on your part.

there are actually good cops out there, man. i've met a couple. even if they had horrible flaws in their way of thinking.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted July 18, 2016 02:34 AM

bb said:
If you can picture a loosely analogous scenario: how many times have young Palestinian males made attacks against an Israeli force that is vastly superior? How many Israels would do the same? Do you think Palestinians would, because of the subculture, be more "bold", or "reckless", or "suicidal" or whatever you want to call it?

Well, usually in those cases, they are literally suicide attacks.

Your explanation of sub-culture and bad environment is a valid one, I mean, at least it focuses on the right parameter, not suspects acting stupid  in general but black suspects acting stupid significantly more, compared to others. But still, I'd say unarmed black suspects getting shot 5 times more than others is a pretty heavy ratio. I mean, whatever this sub-culture is, it must really turn you into one clueless fish.

@fred

You've been trying to save my life a lot recently but don't worry fred, I'm always polite to strangers.

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