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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted January 20, 2019 03:16 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Yeah I guess some people can't live without that incredibly overpowered Town Portal and DD 4 times a day, even though they are completely unbalanced.
Then some people are gonna say, "it's not unfair if everyone have them", right, but it's not like everyone will get them at the same time or even get them at all.
4x DD imbalance is pretty much agreed upon by everyone nowadays. what about 2x like it is now ? should it be strictly 1x ? do you have a clear opinion on this?
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 20, 2019 05:45 PM |
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Well I guess it could be 1 or 2 on big maps, like it is.
Personally I would prefer only once per day though, you don't get much with Air Magic, you save 5 mana and a few movement points, but it's better than nothing. Damage spells, Blind, Hypnotize and Animate Dead does'nt benefit much from magic schools either and Air Magic also has Fly.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 20, 2019 06:18 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Yeah I guess some people can't live without that incredibly overpowered Town Portal and DD 4 times a day, even though they are completely unbalanced.
Its not a matter of facility, as "can't live without". Unlike you, a large number of players still prefer and play custom maps, where such spells are finely distributed and are in no way overpowered.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 20, 2019 06:33 PM |
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I don't see how TP and DD can ever be balanced in their original form.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted January 20, 2019 06:33 PM |
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I think Phoenix plays his only map and all 3D0 and HotA. He plays also only earth and logistics. Try to play Chaotic Event and Monstrous Island from maps4heroes and author is your guy Ghost. It maps change your position/mind.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 20, 2019 07:33 PM |
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Now a days, yeah, I mostly play my own map. But I have played most RoE-SoD maps and campaigns and my opinion counts for those maps as well. Things might be different in some specific custom maps, but those are exceptions.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 20, 2019 07:48 PM |
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no, for single players, custom maps are not the exception, but 99% of maps played. I don't see why anyone would play single a template vs computer. And when map is finely designed, spells, skills and artifacts just fit in, any.
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Djangoo
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 20, 2019 10:10 PM |
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Salamandre said:
no, for single players, custom maps are not the exception, but 99% of maps played. I don't see why anyone would play single a template vs computer.
For me because:
-multiplayer/ competative is too stressfull
- rmg Editor is really good and customizable,i like the maps it produces
- i like starting in "default " settings,comparable to Multiplayer setting
- with some changes to AI values, AI becomes much better in fights + rmg/mapeeditor give other Options to Boost ai
- stomping AI in hotseat can be fun
I also play custom maps/scenarios btw
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Orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted January 21, 2019 08:07 AM |
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Salamandre said:
I don't see why anyone would play single a template vs computer.
Gl finding opponent in lobby playing a custom template.. I've been playing a mirror template vs 7 AI allied recently and i really enjoy it, maybe you should try it before judging. Tastes are different, for example i find custom maps and campaigns lame but cant condemn ppl who like them.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 21, 2019 09:17 AM |
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The discussion slips. AI is not coded to make a lethal attack, join all forces on one target and sacrifice secondary objectives, thats why TP and DD sounds overpowered to those who play templates in single player mode (template=unmmoded AI). It is easy to use such spells to repeal small forces and skirmish attacks, as AI enjoys doing.
Once you play finely designed maps, where such spells are placed wisely, the problem is gone.
Now you explain me is interesting to play templates alone, go ahead. But after 20 yo of practicing, most people playing the game will find that boring, whats challenging winning vs 7 allied AI's, a kiddie task.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 21, 2019 10:53 AM |
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Salamandre said:
winning vs 7 allied AI's, a kiddie task.
If you tried that with my rules, you would always lose, always.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 21, 2019 11:08 AM |
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Orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted January 21, 2019 11:25 AM |
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Salamandre said:
The discussion slips.
Agree, let's not deviate from main topic.
My first suggestion would be ( regardless of upcoming changes) making TP 5th lvl spell so that it won't appear randomly in shrines nor can be taught through scholar. Well you could say one side could get it on 1st try while the other had to spend like 40 of every precious resource but elemental spell is sometimes more important to clear topes easily.
By the way, i hope some crap damage spells will get buff as well because being accustommed to avoiding certain spells all the time shouldn't be normal.
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted January 21, 2019 11:29 AM |
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Edited by Lth3 at 11:33, 21 Jan 2019.
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Salamandre said:
The discussion slips. AI is not coded to make a lethal attack, join all forces on one target and sacrifice secondary objectives, thats why TP and DD sounds overpowered to those who play templates in single player mode (template=unmmoded AI). It is easy to use such spells to repeal small forces and skirmish attacks, as AI enjoys doing.
Once you play finely designed maps, where such spells are placed wisely, the problem is gone.
you are acting too emotional on this. if original game mechanics made DD 1-2 times from the start you would be making custom maps that accommodate this. or would you be asking WoG or HotA to change it to 4 ?
we can make a conclusion that 3DO did not logically assume that 4 times DD is the right amount
with HotA it is easy to switch settings with in-game menu. when playing multiplayer enable 'Tournament Rules' and you get HotA mechanics. if playing custom map disable it and you are back to original mechanics: Diplo, DD 4 times and so on
phoenix4ever said:
Salamandre said:
winning vs 7 allied AI's, a kiddie task.
If you tried that with my rules, you would always lose, always.
i wanna try it. if it can make AI capable. because i have not seen that in ages
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 21, 2019 11:40 AM |
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I am a little skeptical when hearing that the H3 AI may be more than a hopeless victim  Unless we are talking AB final Christian design where multiple enemies invade your area from one way portals while their areas are inaccessible for most of the game.
At any rate, tournament rules being optional is fine. Now to get some aoe destructive boost  Meteor outshines all the rest and so happens to be in earth school.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Lth3
Known Hero
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posted January 21, 2019 11:51 AM |
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Orrinisthebest said:
My first suggestion would be ( regardless of upcoming changes) making TP 5th lvl spell so that it won't appear randomly in shrines nor can be taught through scholar. Well you could say one side could get it on 1st try while the other had to spend like 40 of every precious resource but elemental spell is sometimes more important to clear topes easily.
it doesn't. already disabled from shrines since some time ago and object value set equal to DD/Fly
from HotA manual:
"Changes to Spell Scrolls.
The value of the scroll level 4 increased from 4000 to 8000. Removed Town Portal and Waterwalk spells.
The value of the scroll level 5 increased from 5000 to 10000. Removed Fly and Dimesion Door spells.
Added srcoll with Town Portal, Fly, Dimesion Door and (in case of water map) Waterwalk. Value 20000, frequency of occurrence 30, maximum 1 in the zone.
Added restrictions on the maximum number of scrolls in the zone.
Scroll Level 1: 6.
Scroll Level 2: 5.
Scroll Level 3: 4.
Scroll Level 4: 3.
Scroll Level 5: 2.
The mechanism of a uniform distribution of spells in the scrolls: Map will always have about the same number of scrolls with all the spells of the same level, and scrolls with the same spells are less likely to be near each other."
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted January 21, 2019 12:54 PM |
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Salamandre said:
What rules you use?
You can see the "My gameplay changes to Heroes 3" thread, I think you have already commented in it.
But the biggest challenges are probably Town Portal only takes me to nearest town while AI can go anywhere, No Shackles of War and Wizard's Well disabled and Cloak of the Undead King only makes Skeleton Warriors and much better AI Values for AI when it's casting spells.
I admit the above can even sometimes get frustratingly difficult, mainly because of TP and I need to be VERY offensive and take enemies towns ASAP, so I haven't found the perfect balance yet.
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Djangoo
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 21, 2019 03:23 PM |
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Edited by Djangoo at 15:36, 21 Jan 2019.
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Salamandre said:
Now you explain me is interesting to play templates alone, go ahead. But after 20 yo of practicing, most people playing the game will find that boring, whats challenging winning vs 7 allied AI's, a kiddie task.
For example this guy made a template which I don't think is easy on impossible vs 7 AI.
https://www.reddit.com/r/heroes3/comments/9rvbul/survival_hc_20_custom_template/
While I agree that custom scenarios are harder overall, I prefer template style over them, because most of the time the custom scenarios seem more like a riddle or puzzle to me, where you have to play in a very specific way to beat it and reload several times. Which is also fun, but I more often prefer the "vanilla" style gaming, similar to multiplayer.
For better AI: make sure to lower AI value of FireShield, Summon Elementals and Counterstrike significantly. AI -loves- these spells and they usually suck, except for ElementalSpell with high spell points (which AI usually lacks).
Other than that AI usually splits its army like crazy and is bad, true, but since HotA team supposedly has still contact to former devs maybe not all hope is lost for better AI. Other than that I passionately wait for deep learning h3 bot.
More on topic:
Great suggestions here; my favourites:
- Adventure map spell changes only in tournament mode
- TP stays the same but costs more movement points
- DD 1 or 2 I don't really care but would prefer 1 and reduced movement cost
- DD to Fire seems balanced (fire now also has adventure map spell), but Fire already has tons of spells so I'm not sure about it
- water walk bonus movement points would really boost water nicely, but makes 0 sense lore wise, so rather no
I also hope that with next expansion we see new spells specialists
- Curse one similar to Adela
- Destroy Undead
- Land mine/quicksand specialist would be very cool, especially if you could teach AI how to use it
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Orrinisthebest
Known Hero
Invest in your future.
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posted January 21, 2019 03:34 PM |
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Lth3 said:
from HotA manual:
"Changes to Spell Scrolls.
Blah blah
Still doesn't change the fact that hero can get it from shrine or just building 4th lvl of MG. I insist on this suggestion because TP is unarguably the most crucial spell in the game, therefore should be 5th lvl.
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Djangoo
Adventuring Hero
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posted January 21, 2019 03:37 PM |
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That would be unfair to Castle/Cove.
It is fine as a lvl 4 spell, 5 is only fair if obtainable only by scrolls/pyramid or artifacts.
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