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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 117 pages long: 1 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 ... 110 111 112 113 114 ... 117 · «PREV / NEXT»
Rakso
Rakso


Adventuring Hero
posted January 09, 2020 07:21 PM

Hourglass said:
2) Well, these would be completely useless against AI, since it can't cast any of the mentioned spells, and I'm afraid that against another player they wouldn't make any difference either.


Think though, if you want to kite AI units to a firewall you likely need to have a flying unit atm, because a non-flying would die to your own placed firewall. These boots would allow to kite units with a non-flying unit, that unit even being a slower unit than the enemies - I mean, you wouldn't need to cast the fire-wall after the non-flying move if you want to hide them behind it, but you could cast it before sending them to the spot, as the preset firewall would case no damage to them. You would need no fastest + wait + first move on second round, but could fight with a slower aswell. So I disagree that the artifact would be of no use against the AI in general. On the other hand, it would benefit the AI Heroes alot, if they would have it.

More, that is more specifically about singleplayer, because I dislike that when people value their opinion only by looking from the multiplayer point of view at something, it's not a "Heroes 3" opinion then, but "Multiplayer game". I think that a successful opinion should consider the whole game in all of it's aspects in general, not just a part of it - sadly for many multiplayer is the game they play, not the Heroes 3 themselves. Anyways, AI Heroes would benefit alot from such an artifact, as the mentioned spells are used to abuse it alot, which would be great for singleplayer maps for example. It would be actually fun to see an AI hero troll you by pass through firewalls like nothing, one-hit kill your shooters behind a force field with a dragon, or pass through 20 iron mines in a row with a Champion charge. lol don't you think? This one in my opinion is cool to remove the AI abusive tactics.

About it's effectiveness against human players, it's quite obvious, but honestly these spells were never really meant to be used against a human in the first place, so the artifact definately doesn't consider such a PvP scenario. Does any artifact in the game need to be a PvP one for you to have a place to be? Such behavior is an ignorant one for HoMM3.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 09, 2020 09:17 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 21:21, 09 Jan 2020.

Hourglass said:

The Docent especially wrote that they won't upgrade the original unit stats. I think they are very serious about it, as they rather created completely new unit, instead of chaging to upgrade any of the old ones. Yeah, they sure are slow, but the game should also have (painfully) slow units. Note that in Homm2, there were creatures with a speed of 2. Also, there are very few 3 speed units, and all of them are downgrades, so the player can atleast do something to the problem.

But the speed 3 units not only move slow and get initiative late in battle, (this can be remedied by Haste/Teleport/Prayer) but they also cause your hero to crawl like a turtle on the adventure map. Even if a lot of these slow units offers to join, you can ask yourself, do I really want these guys to slow me down. Usually you don't or if you do you can hopefully upgrade them very soon. I can usually accept speed 4 units (at least Dendroid Soldiers), but speed 3 units are no fun at all.

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Rakso
Rakso


Adventuring Hero
posted January 09, 2020 10:35 PM

phoenix4ever said:

But the speed 3 units not only move slow and get initiative late in battle, (this can be remedied by Haste/Teleport/Prayer) but they also cause your hero to crawl like a turtle on the adventure map. Even if a lot of these slow units offers to join, you can ask yourself, do I really want these guys to slow me down. Usually you don't or if you do you can hopefully upgrade them very soon. I can usually accept speed 4 units (at least Dendroid Soldiers), but speed 3 units are no fun at all.


You use another hero to transport the slow ones, or leave them somewhere for a moment, for example on a mine to guard.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted January 09, 2020 10:46 PM

Rakso said:

More, that is more specifically about singleplayer, because I dislike that when people value their opinion only by looking from the multiplayer point of view at something, it's not a "Heroes 3" opinion then, but "Multiplayer game". I think that a successful opinion should consider the whole game in all of it's aspects in general, not just a part of it - sadly for many multiplayer is the game they play, not the Heroes 3 themselves.



Eh?

Dude, what are you talking about? I commented this item by one sentence, but you can still see me talking very shortly about how it would do in both AI and multiplayer scenario. Have mercy.

Then, let's talk more about this item. You talked a lot about Fire Wall, so let's focus on that part. I personally don't ever cast Fire Wall, and this is because it needs a very spesific scenario to be effective. And simple lightning bolt will outdamage firewall, even if you managed to hit both flame hexes. Ice bolt is only slightly weaker than that (10 dmg actually), and doensn't need any kind special setup to take place, while still being useful against shooting and flying enemies - unit types fire wall is unable to deal with. If you're willing to do more dmg with fire wall, you'll likely need a spesific battlefield with suitable creatures + you're having hard time to deal dmg, if the enemy isn't a two-hex creature.

Also, Firewall isn't very reliable against AI; if it cannot reach you, it can choose to defend.

You're presenting a neat trick with fire wall (cast and then move), but to tell the truth, it doesn't really make the spell or your hero much better. Also, notice that you're considering this item to be worth Major, while an artifact that makes you immune against blind is considered treasure-level.

Lastly, I thought you meant to brainstorm a new type of artifact for the boot slot, so I personally I think it's only rational to create something that both SP and PVP players could use - you never mentioned that you purely wanted to create an artifact for SP only.
Btw, I'm over 90% of single player guy, and I don't know anyone who would  play "only" or even "mostly" PVP. Even those PVP grampas with hundreds or even thousands of PVP games likely played way more single player than multiplayer.

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Rakso
Rakso


Adventuring Hero
posted January 09, 2020 11:18 PM
Edited by Rakso at 23:18, 09 Jan 2020.

@Hourglass Thanks for the feedback. Done, I made the boots more useful for both. Althrough I'm not sure about this one. I think it might overcomplicate the item.

And about firewall I won't teach you how to use it top effectively in an instant, but you can believe me it has more depth. You're right about the artifact type, but with the current boost I did I believe it highly deserves now to be a Major one.

[+] boots of immunity to Force field, Fire wall, Land mine spells and removing battlefield obstacles physics(These wouldn't exist for our troops, meaning they could: stand on them(obstacles not further than only the edge tiles), walk past them, avoid damage, attack units through them) [MAJOR]

What do you think now?

Quote:
Btw, I'm over 90% of single player guy, and I don't know anyone who would  play "only" or even "mostly" PVP. Even those PVP grampas with hundreds or even thousands of PVP games likely played way more single player than multiplayer.


Good for you, I believe you can guess I'm used to notice the other scenario more, but you might be right, I hope so. Sorry for the little teasing, that wasn't smart to judge you rightaway, I agree.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 10, 2020 12:27 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 00:28, 10 Jan 2020.

Talking about new artifacts, not that I have something against the ones for Interference but I'm starting to have something against the frequency with which they appear. Just sold the one I had on the chest, the third one I've sold, guess what is there now?
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted January 10, 2020 03:25 AM

phoenix4ever said:

But the speed 3 units not only move slow and get initiative late in battle, (this can be remedied by Haste/Teleport/Prayer) but they also cause your hero to crawl like a turtle on the adventure map. Even if a lot of these slow units offers to join, you can ask yourself, do I really want these guys to slow me down. Usually you don't or if you do you can hopefully upgrade them very soon. I can usually accept speed 4 units (at least Dendroid Soldiers), but speed 3 units are no fun at all.


You can use them as fodder or town/mine/garrison guards or have a secondary hero take them after your main's turn.
I strongly oppose levelling out speed differences. It's what battle tactics makes what it is.

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Revolut1oN
Revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted January 10, 2020 06:00 AM
Edited by Revolut1oN at 06:01, 10 Jan 2020.

Regardless of unit speed main hero should only have one unit on him by the end of the turn, that unit being the fastest one. Except for some special cricumstances lile being in danger of getting caught by enemy.

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Known Hero
posted January 10, 2020 07:26 AM

I know this is more of an HD thing, but since they are the same team.

Can the HD ladder system be changed to not value bigger maps as giving/taking more points? This is bias people to choose XL and bigger maps, and punish M and L maps.

Smaller maps are not faster, M200 games take longer than XL JC.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted January 10, 2020 07:40 AM
Edited by MattII at 07:51, 10 Jan 2020.

Revolut1oN said:
Regardless of unit speed main hero should only have one unit on him by the end of the turn, that unit being the fastest one. Except for some special cricumstances lile being in danger of getting caught by enemy.
Actually, any creature with a speed between Quick and Super Fast is okay. Not that that gives you many options:
Castle - Angel/Archangel
Tower - Master Genie, Titan
Inferno - Efreet Sultan, Devil/Arch Devil
Fortress - Dragon Fly, Wyvern Monarch
Rampart - Silver Pegasus, Gold Dragon
Dungeon - Scorpicore, Red/Black Dragon
Stronghold - Thunderbird
Necropolis - Ghost Dragon
Conflux - Firebird/Phoenix
Neutral - Faerie/Rust/Crystal/Azure Dragon

Not sure about Cove, but I'm guessing, Ayssid and Hapsid make the cut.

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mihaid
mihaid


Hired Hero
posted January 10, 2020 09:25 AM

bloodsucker said:
Talking about new artifacts, not that I have something against the ones for Interference but I'm starting to have something against the frequency with which they appear. Just sold the one I had on the chest, the third one I've sold, guess what is there now?


I noticed that too. I found the Charm and the Seal twice in the first month on my first attempt at 1.6.0

But I thought that was a coincidence. Is it even possible to have different drop rates on artifacts of the same class?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 10, 2020 10:05 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:06, 10 Jan 2020.

Do you guys always have a secondary hero following your main around and give the secondary hero the slowest units at the end of the day? It seems like a pretty risky tactic, considering your units are split up and some of them on a poor hero and you could get attacked without realising it with stuff like DD and and TP, especially if the enemy has Shackles...

@Bloodsucker and mihaid I think it's just a coincidence and I actually think it's great with some new artifacts, even though I play with Resistance, not Interference.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 10, 2020 10:28 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 10:36, 10 Jan 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
Do you guys always have a secondary hero following your main around and give the secondary hero the slowest units at the end of the day?
Only in the first days, after that I have him only with the fastest troops and leave the rest with someone else, that is creeping. But I never play PvP and I always use Diplomacy, so after some time I know his army is strong enough to beat anything AI may have. OTOH, I usually have a another hero following the best guy with Diplomacy, to try always present an army with more then 50% of creatures of the same type to the wanted stack (mostly Angels, Giants, Firebirds and their upgrades).
phoenix4ever said:
I think it's just a coincidence...
It isn't, it's the second map I tried and it happened in both with annoying frequence. What it can be is an unwanted result of the template configuration but since I'm not the only one complaining probably isn't.

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Weilan
Weilan

Tavern Dweller
posted January 10, 2020 11:55 AM

Doomforge said:
Weilan said:
For example HoMM4 is one bugged, imbalances mess, is it OK? Not by a long shot. There is the Equilibris mod, but it doesn't support Windows 10 and it's abandoned, kind of like the game itself.


Oh but it does work. You need a wrapper, but it works fine. I'm playing HoMM4 right now.

The game does have this horrible hollow feel to it and that's because it's rushed by an underfunded team, and everything seems just sort of slapped there without a second thought. At best, it feels like a glorious musical piece with a mediocre game added to it.

Such a game deserves to be changed because it failed.

HoMM3 is different, because the game was polished, made with much love and it stood the test of time. This game shouldn't be changed much because... you don't really change a winning formula. And HoMM3 is one. Some polish, yes. A revamp? Nope. There is a very thin line between changes that are OK and those that aren't.

What the original team had was VISION. This is what makes games legendary. Someone visioned it to be just like it is. Modders are usually just soulless number crunchers and overmodded games just turn into chess for tryhards which appease maybe a tiny bunch of the players, highly frustrating the veterans. The magic just vanishes. You get another boring "meta simulator" with everything "balanced" to be bland and pointless. A perfectly balanced game is actually the ultimate irony because it's unplayable - you can pick whatever, everything works the same (=balanced) so you may as well delete the options altogether because they produce the same outcome.

Worse, at some point, it stops feeling like the original game. Once you reach that point, there's no return. It's like playing some anon's idea of how the game should be played and unsurprisingly it almost always flops.

HotA team did a fantastic job so far because the game (unlike many WoG iterations) still feels exactly like HoMM3 while being expanded. However, once you start meddling with internal mechanics and change too much, it will start becoming less HoMM and more HotA, if you know what I'm saying. That's not necessarily bad, but I would not be interested anymore.



I know HoMM4, I played it with a wrapper too, but you're missing my point. The gameplay is broken. I was on a phone when I wrote this and I got impatient and frustrating typing on a virtual keyboard, so I didn't phrase my comment as well as I could've.

HoMM4 is fundamentally a broken game. I don't mind the graphics, the UI, the change of perspective (view angle), the type of battle or anything, but the fact that the game allows you to have multiple heroes in an army, where you can make them impossibly OP, where monsters can roam on their own around the map and the AI being stupid, the lack of RMG and so on and so on...

That's what I mean that HoMM4 is a broken game and even modders don't care about it.

If HoMM4 was actually an improvement over HoMM3, with slightly better 2D graphics, nicer UI, larger resolution support and so on and so on, it would've been a smash hit. Even if they didn't have the funding or were going bankrupt, it still would've at least laid the foundations for modders to improve upon it.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 10, 2020 12:35 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:05, 10 Jan 2020.

In the "Special victory condition" page of the Map Specifications there isn't a check for "Also allow normal victory" for the Build Grail option and it assumes Yes. I think this is wrong because if you choosed it it's way more probable you don't want to allow normal victory then you do.
For instance, I created a G+U map with my new template that is kind of a Clash of the Dragons for 4 players, then I came to the conclusion that it is completely unnecessary to explore most of the map, cause after some time you can just use View Air, Fly and DD to find the opponents and finish it. So, I decided to put the "Build the Grail" condition to force player to explore but that gets completely screwed if he can win the usual way.

P.S. I went for "Flag all mines" instead and that one has it. Just in case some other mapmaker reads this...
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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 10, 2020 01:17 PM

Revolut1oN said:
Regardless of unit speed main hero should only have one unit on him by the end of the turn, that unit being the fastest one. Except for some special cricumstances lile being in danger of getting caught by enemy.


And then a hero comes out of the fog and kills your 1-stack only main

Hell, I miss the times where people weren't afraid to play open templates.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 10, 2020 03:26 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 15:27, 10 Jan 2020.

Revolut1oN said:
Regardless of unit speed main hero should only have one unit on him by the end of the turn, that unit being the fastest one. Except for some special circumstances like being in danger of getting caught by enemy.

Or better, keep a guy with something like 7 Dragonflies, Assids, Master Genies, etc with him and constantly trade the troops. Sure, some towns don't have low level speed +11 units but even Royal Griffins are better then to have it with only one unit. Just saying...
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Revolut1oN
Revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted January 10, 2020 03:31 PM
Edited by Revolut1oN at 15:43, 10 Jan 2020.

Doomforge said:
Revolut1oN said:
Regardless of unit speed main hero should only have one unit on him by the end of the turn, that unit being the fastest one. Except for some special cricumstances lile being in danger of getting caught by enemy.


And then a hero comes out of the fog and kills your 1-stack only main

Hell, I miss the times where people weren't afraid to play open templates.


???
People play plenty of open templates, i dont know what you mean. There is much more open templates available than in sod era where 99% of tournaments were jebus, the rest nostalgia or diamond.

You know what is scouting, right? You do plan ahead and calculate where enemy can and cant be, also view air is an option. I really dont see the logic behind that comment. As long as you know what you are doing there is like 0% risk of being caught without an army.

Bloodsucker, it makes absolutely no difference what you take and how much in 99% of cases. You just take whatever fast unit u have, in Castle case its usually marksmen or cavalier sonce nobody serious makes griffins as they are not cost efficient enough and slow down build order. Then again its strictly from a multiplayer point of view, in single it doesnt matter that much.

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted January 10, 2020 05:49 PM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 17:57, 10 Jan 2020.

Orc said:
why would you want leadership skill to be increased to +6?

my suggestion was to increase the cap itself, not leadership bonus.


and current leadership + anglelic alliance isnt bad. it only becomes redundant if you add morale items on top of that.


Suggest: Rename Pendant of downfall into DragonSkull


Welcome back to my root x solution
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43966&PID=1489105#focus

and full calc for it on unlimited scale

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43966&PID=1489214#focus

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 10, 2020 07:21 PM

Revolut1oN said:
???
People play plenty of open templates, i dont know what you mean. There is much more open templates available than in sod era where 99% of tournaments were jebus, the rest nostalgia or diamond.


I mostly see JC or other isolated, TBH.

Revolut1oN said:
You know what is scouting, right? You do plan ahead and calculate where enemy can and cant be, also view air is an option. I really dont see the logic behind that comment. As long as you know what you are doing there is like 0% risk of being caught without an army.


Assuming the age you entered on your profile is correct, I think you weren't born yet when the kind of stuff I mentioned was being played - HoMM2 style. Well, not quite, since 3DO nerfed HoMM2 hit and run significantly, but there was a lot more close combat from 1st week back then. People wouldn't get 8 heroes and expand/scout in all directions day 1 because starting difficulty wasn't set in stone like now and there wasn't any HotA tourney rules to use. Scouting with the three heroes you could afford wasn't always that successful week one

Good old times, mate.

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