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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 117 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 20 40 60 80 100 ... 113 114 115 116 117 · «PREV / NEXT»
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 15, 2020 02:01 PM

I dislike all 3 artifacts.
Wayfarer's Boots: Ruins Pathfinding.
Angel Wings: Ruins Pathfinding and kinda ruins Navigation skill and hero specialty.
Wizard's Well: Ruins Mysticism skill and hero specialty.



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Rakso
Rakso


Adventuring Hero
posted January 15, 2020 02:08 PM

phoenix4ever said:
I dislike all 3 artifacts.
Wayfarer's Boots: Ruins Pathfinding.
Angel Wings: Ruins Pathfinding and kinda ruins Navigation skill and hero specialty.
Wizard's Well: Ruins Mysticism skill and hero specialty.




I see. That's their point of existence unfortunately for you tho - to add "bonus hidden secondary skills" to the hero through these to compensate him for their lack.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 15, 2020 02:40 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 14:41, 15 Jan 2020.

@Phoenix4ever And don't you hate Pendant of Courage? It makes Luck and Leadership pointless, too.
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Rakso
Rakso


Adventuring Hero
posted January 15, 2020 02:41 PM

bloodsucker said:
@Phoenix4forever And don't you hate Pendant of Courage? It makes Luck and Leadership pointless, too.


LMAO.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 15, 2020 02:43 PM

Well now that you mention it I kinda do, but at least not all units benefit from Morale, so there are often better alternatives and if I already have Leadership and/or Luck, I probably won't equip it and go for the +12 stat necklace, +1 speed necklace or the Anti Lightning pendant instead.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 15, 2020 03:36 PM

Love, not hate. I so completely in love with the Template Editor I'm thinking of buying a ring.
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timmysoboy
timmysoboy


Hired Hero
posted January 16, 2020 06:03 AM

Somebody brought up the desire for more low desirability type artifacts.  I can't remember the justification for it, but I'm not horribly opposed to the idea.  Something like a trinket that drastically increases damage against a particular summoned unit, then a combo artifact that bans your opponent from summoning during combat.  For example, the trinket of damage against fire elementals would double damage against summoned fire elementals.  Hopefully the idea can at least inspire ideas from others.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 16, 2020 07:16 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 19:16, 16 Jan 2020.

I felt ok with the nerf of Logistics in the beginning but playing Castle one notices the tremendous advantage that is to have access to stables nowadays... Low level Logistics specialist with speed 7 creatures (giants) and equipped with boots and gloves isn't even starting with the three +++.
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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 16, 2020 10:52 PM

I am not really feeling the Logistics nerf either, the problem was not the skill in general, but the 3 specialists. (and perhaps the 3 other heroes starting with Logistics?)
And again I don't like the weird 5/10/20 progression.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted January 17, 2020 05:22 AM
Edited by Hourglass at 08:12, 17 Jan 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
I am not really feeling the Logistics nerf either, the problem was not the skill in general, but the 3 specialists. (and perhaps the 3 other heroes starting with Logistics?)
And again I don't like the weird 5/10/20 progression.


The progression is exactly like in the original SOD. Resistance has the very same  numbers. If the maxium value (expert) cannot be divided with 3, then the expert lvl is twice as powerful compared to advanced lvl. This is true for Archery, Estates, Resistance and old Intelligence. (the new onehas the weardest ever) The only expection to this is First Aid, but even it makes sense, since the "no skill" gives max of 25 health.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted January 17, 2020 10:07 AM

But if they wanted Expert Logistics at 20, it should have been 6,67/13,33/20,00 or if people don't like decimals 7/13/20.
I don't understand the philosophy with Expert being twice as good as Basic and Advanced and yes I know it was like this in the original game, but it still sucks.

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Revolut1oN
Revolut1oN


Famous Hero
posted January 17, 2020 11:31 AM
Edited by Revolut1oN at 11:38, 17 Jan 2020.

Pollo2002 said:


What open templates are played?
In fact I've waiting for HOTA to do the remake of magic to make and try to repopularize open templates.
Though I may make it before that since it seems that remake never gonna happen.


Well for example M200, Skirmish, 2sm variations, even mini nostalgia can be finished extremely fast. In the past there was also a template called balance which was extremely quick but also heavily imbalanced (oh irony) so serious players stopped playing it, now its not part of hota template bank anymore. Its not like you are forced to play Jebus anyway.


bloodsucker said:
Don't forget about portals and Subterranean Gates... Even I that played about a dozen maps on MP was caught like that once and I can recall several times where top players saw their plans frustrated because of it.
If you don't want to build the Griffins Tower you can always upgrade the ones that came with heroes at an Hill Fort but a Marksman has only speed 6 and a cavalier 7, that delays your progress more then build and upgrade a level three dwelling week two.


The thing is as I said in 99% of cases its easy to predict whether you are in danger or not. And once you are in danger you obviously leave your army on main anyway (but even then you leave only fast units, its better to make 1 stacks out of marksmen than zombies, isnt it?). Nevertheless for the first two weeks you are usually perfectly safe unless you do something stupid.
Griffins are not worth to upgrade, how many times do you have a hill fort nearby? And how many times do you have griffins, before you get to that hillfort they are already dead being a meat sacrificed to get higher level units ^^ Ive never seen an upgraded griffin, even once in any serious multiplayer game. Unless taken from pandora of course.

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Known Hero
posted January 19, 2020 06:56 AM
Edited by Pollo2002 at 07:03, 19 Jan 2020.

Quote:
Well for example M200, Skirmish, 2sm variations, even mini nostalgia can be finished extremely fast.


I think you are confused on what the heroes 3 community used to call open templates/maps.

JC can be finished in time before those m200 maps you mentioned.
But open template/map has nothing to do with speed of play.

OPen maps/templates are called so when players can connect with each other without army needs., that is there is at least one (though generally multiple) connections where there are No guards at all.

This generally leads to early interaction of scouts or small army to fight mostly for scouting info and resources.

They were very popular in fixed maps, but overtime as RMG started to become more popular they started to lose popularity.

I think the reason they started to lose popularity was that for years players couldn't edit roads out of templates and fast roads are counterproductive to open maps.
( i could explain why this is the case if neccesary).

Now that Hota gave template makers more power over RMG editor i think it's possible to create again good open templates.

There are a few features in RMG editor that would help open maps, that sadly i dont think will be comming (limit number of heroes/Nerf Poor's man portal/Nerf chaining), I think it's still possible but the maps won't play as well. I still will give it a shot at creating them when they remake magic, but i don't know when it will happen.
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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted January 19, 2020 10:16 AM

Now how would nerfed chaining  (not gonna happen) or remade magic "help" those open templates?

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Known Hero
posted January 19, 2020 04:34 PM
Edited by Pollo2002 at 16:45, 19 Jan 2020.

I have a mod where I nerf chaining. What I do is that when two heroes Meet, both their movement points equalize.
RMG allow you to create Arena Templates, i don't see why there can't exist an option where hero chaining is nerfed. They also added the option to add turn limits to fights.

Reducing the amount of heroes allowed also it's a nerf to chaining. In fact if they add a way to limit the max amount of heroes to templates, it would be enough for me to start creating open templates.

I don't think i can add much to magic, lots of posts and thread about the subject have been written, I'm waiting for hota team to present their option. But the basic idea is that it can't be that Expert Earth and Air are a Must for a hero.

Personally I would separate mass spells from single spells, and tone down significantlly the Expert magic boost, boosting all magic in general, making it cheaper and more powerfull. And Nerfing all the effect of expert magic.

So given that, How would those effects help those templates?

To start, we have to understand why i think open templates are interesting The reason is that you have to make interesting decisions about how to split your army. In open maps you want to farm/clear guards in a zone but also want to send scouts or small armies to Scout and also to clean guards in these zones, where are generally weaker, but removing a resource here, is a resource your opponent can't get.

Chaining makes this decision pointless, because you can do both at the same time, literally farming your zone, and then on demand, transfer your whole army to mutual zone if needed. This is why roads are bad for open templates, because it reudces the real distance between our zone and neutral zone without really reducing the distance between our castle and most treasure. And it makes very easy to Have your main army and your scoutings "connected" by a chain of heroes that can transfer the army back and forth.

For that reason Roads + Strong chaining makes open map, pointless.
Removing Chaining Makes it that deciding where your army goes is hard decision
Removing Poor's man portal allows a template maker to add more castles to the map since castles are no longer teleporting stargates.

***
How remade magic benefit open templates?
Right now A player with access to Expert magic, and right now specifically Expert Earth/Air, has an insane advantage in combat against one that doesnt.
In open templates you can't afford that spike of power. You can afford it in close templates because there isn't going to be any interaction until different guard breaks, so you have X time to get expert magic.
But in open templates without guard breaks you can control neutral zones with expert magic without the opponent having a chance until he gets his own expert magic, and by that points it can be too late.



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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 19, 2020 04:51 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 16:52, 19 Jan 2020.

Revolut1oN said:
Griffins are not worth to upgrade, how many times do you have a hill fort nearby? And how many times do you have griffins, before you get to that hillfort they are already dead being a meat sacrificed to get higher level units ^^ Ive never seen an upgraded griffin, even once in any serious multiplayer game. Unless taken from pandora of course.

What I see often is people building and upgrading the serpentflies dwelling in the very first days... I know that Castle building order is screwed by griffin tower, so you don't build it but fast unit scouts are quite important.

About people playing open templates and being safe for the first two weeks, don't you see you are contradicting yourself? As I said before I've played about a dozen matches in MP but once I was beaten day 6 of week one.
That was an open template and the guy was GOOD. He warn me before but I decided to try anyway...
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Known Hero
posted January 19, 2020 07:29 PM

Some ideas how to buff existing Secondary Skills:

Learning

On paper, Learning could be buffed by simply increasing the numbers. However, it turns out that we would need to change the numbers dramatically, in order to make it any good. This is due the fact that after each level, the experience required for the next level for greatly increased. For example, lvl 8 requires exactly 10,000 exp. Now, if we assume that learning would give double experience on expert level, and the hero would have had the expert skill right from the start, he would still be only 3 levels ahead, as lvl req. for lvl 12 is 20,700 exp.

But it's not only that: remember that in order to reach expert learning, hero have spent 3 secondary skill points in order achieve it. With these said, we can see how bad the current Learning is, and how hard would it be to get the experience bonus right. If it's set too too high, it might even become OP, but only if the hero would get it early. Get it too late, and it's useless. Instead of that, I suggest this:

Basic = 10% more experience. Hero gains +1 Spell Power and Knowledge as a one time bonus.
Advanced = 25% more experience. Hero gains +1 Attack and Defence as a one time bonus.
Expert = 50% more experience. Hero gains +1 all primary stats as a one time bonus.

I would say, focus on giving the player primary stats instead, and just somewhat increase the experience giving part, so we don't have to stress about it. At expert, hero would gain +2 all stats + 50% more exp. I belive giving more stats might make this a must have skill.

Before any1 comes and says "isn't +2 primary stats kinda meh?"
Maybe it doesn't seem so flashy, but remember that:

+2 attack skill = 5-10% more all non-magic damage.
+2 defence skill = 2,5-5% less dmg taken.
+2 spell power = spells do bit more damage, effects last 2 rounds longer.
+2 knowledge = 20 mana.
(and on top of that, there's the +50% more exp)

Now, compare those number with Offence, Armorer, Sorcery and Intelligence. This form of Learning would give you a little bit of everything, so obviosly the amount given cannot be very high.

I suggest making a new icon and maybe even giving a new name to the skill.


Eagle Eye

There's a lot wrong with Eagle Eye, and the introduction of Spell research doesn't help the EE's state at all. If you want to see more what I think of EE, you check out the very first page of this thread. When I wrote that, I thought the best way to deal with EE would be compeletely remove it, but Hota has given us even better method: banning. This allows us to keep the thing at the game, so all maps with EE needing them can still be completed, but the skill isn't there to hinder the hero building.

So:

Ban Eagle Eye from randomly generated maps. Ban all heroes specializing in Eagle Eye from there as well. Introduce new skill to the game, which is somehow magic oriented. Introduce completely new heroes for those towns that lost a hero in this process. You can make these heroes to specialize to the new skill or not. Change Ash's skill to the new skill, or something different. (only hero with Eagle Eye without specializing in it)

Ban the 3 EE related artifacts, introduce 2 new artifacts to the game. One that allows you to learn lvl 1-2 spells cast by enemy player with 50% of chance, and other artifact that does the same for lvl 3-4 spells.


Artillery + First Aid + Ballistics

Yes, I think they should all be part of one big skill. I've seen some ideas of combining First Aid only to Artillery and call it Warfare, but to me, it only makes sense if all three are connected with one skill.  Artillery is somewhat handy, but it lacks the utility to be seriously considered as a pickable option, and it clerly doesn't become broken, if two really weak skills are combined with it.

As an addional effect, I belive Advanced and Expert levels should both increase First Aid tent's own HP by 75 each (so it would have 225 hp with expert)

So, name Artillery to Warfare or Siege or something like that. Ban First Aid + Ballistics from randomly generated maps. There's no need to anything to any heroes.

I think these changes would not make the skill as "top tier" or anything, but certainly this would be better than sole Artillery for example. This would also open two more slots for more skill ideas.


Sorcery

There's nothing wrong with the skills's mechanic, but 15% more dmg after investing 3 skill points is nothing. I belive the 10%/20%/40% route could be the way to go.


These are my current suggestions. Note that if a skill was ever banned, it could still be put back to the game with RMG. I think Hota team has plenty of new ideas for new secondary skills, so banning skills would never become a problem - when something would be banned, other skill would be introduced.

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted January 20, 2020 12:00 AM

First Aid could turn the tent's healing effect into a "mass spell".
After the battle the hero could be offered to rebuild a torn-down tent at the nominal price or it could respawn for free (maybe even rebuilding in battle).

Or just away with the tent and have First Aid as some passive magic.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted January 21, 2020 02:23 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 03:59, 21 Jan 2020.

Now that Diplomacy was modified to cost double price, it would be a nice tweak for the Diplomat's Cloak to also lower it.
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Orrinisthebest
Orrinisthebest


Known Hero
posted January 21, 2020 06:35 PM

bloodsucker said:
Now that Diplomacy was modified to cost double price, it would be a nice tweak for the Diplomat's Cloak to also lower it.

I'd be surprised if it is not on their to-do-list.

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