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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 150 pages long: 1 20 40 60 80 100 ... 114 115 116 117 118 ... 120 140 150 · «PREV / NEXT»
Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted February 13, 2020 12:09 PM

gatecrasher said:
Luna is only useful due to AI bugs / unclear Firewall mechanics which I'd love to see fixed.


Yeah don't forget! Hero with troops and neutral monsters aren't the same thing. Neutral monsters are more stupid without commander. AI bugs? Heroes isn't chess. If you want be chess level, you can't beat AI. AlphaGo or Computer Go! Nowadays they develop AI. In 1999 year wasn't AI. Ok Luna is scout like Gem with First Aid and summon boat. Luna doesn't cast Slow. Unpro, if cast a Slow! When Elite II (SoD map) is coming, player can't learn and try to do Slow. So Luna gets more power, for her specialty or more strong spells against neutral bugs you gain a experience points.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted February 13, 2020 01:18 PM

If HotA crew would get one Penny for every suggestion which is made on improving Eagle Eye, Learning and First Aid skill they would be pretty rich by now

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luk3Z
luk3Z


Hired Hero
posted February 13, 2020 01:31 PM

New *optional* formula for skills calculation mostly for more balance (anti pure static skills). Good for HD Mod feature.
Simple example:

Skills calculation:
I. Hero 1 LVL base skills: 2/2/1/1
II. Hero 20 LVL base skills: 10/10/3/3

Units at battlefield (every round or every battle calculation):
I. Hero LVL 1 & 2 base skills: no change

II. Hero 20 LVL base skills:
creatures attack +x (not +10 like hero above): random(current - base) = random(10-2) = random(8)
creatures defense +y (not +10 like hero above): random(current - base) = random(10-2) = random(8)

hero spell power: no change (more powerful magic skills)
hero knowledge skill: no change

Pros:
- more balance in the game (tactics at battlefield really matter now)
- heroes with 30/30/30/30 will not be sure about winning the game (tactics at battlefield really matter now)

Cons:
- new random calculation system (optional)

Example - who will win this battle with the same units:
Hero 20 (warrior) LVL base skills: 10/10/3/3 or Hero 20 (mage/wizard) LVL base skills: 3/3/10/10 ?

What do you think ?

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 13, 2020 04:46 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 17:35, 13 Feb 2020.

It's not really something new, but I gotta say I really don't like that Sea Dog ability Accurate Shot, a simple level 3 unit can destroy Azure Dragons, Archangels etc. with a RANGED attack! Mighty Gorgons at least needs to get close and their Death Stare does'nt work against undead, elementals, golems or gargoyles.
If you still feel like Cove should have 2 upgrades for the pirates, then please remove Accurate Shot or at least not let it work VS level 7 units, it's really OP. Cove is already really offensive (and fast) with Haspids and Ayssids, that also possess very strong abilities.

Also you somehow managed to make Leena even more ridiculous, by buffing Estates. She now starts with +600 gold per day! One would have to be a fool not to pick her as starting hero for the gold and then find a main hero in tavern instead. I suppose she would be okay if she had Estates specialty, instead of +350 gold, but Estates seems quite powerful now.

You should also take another look at Elmore and Miriams skills and Zilare and Astras specialties...

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 13, 2020 08:00 PM

phoenix4ever said:
It's not really something new, but I gotta say I really don't like that Sea Dog ability Accurate Shot, a simple level 3 unit can destroy Azure Dragons, Archangels etc. with a RANGED attack! Mighty Gorgons at least needs to get close and their Death Stare does'nt work against undead, elementals, golems or gargoyles.
If you still feel like Cove should have 2 upgrades for the pirates, then please remove Accurate Shot or at least not let it work VS level 7 units, it's really OP. Cove is already really offensive (and fast) with Haspids and Ayssids, that also possess very strong abilities.

Also you somehow managed to make Leena even more ridiculous, by buffing Estates. She now starts with +600 gold per day! One would have to be a fool not to pick her as starting hero for the gold and then find a main hero in tavern instead. I suppose she would be okay if she had Estates specialty, instead of +350 gold, but Estates seems quite powerful now.

You should also take another look at Elmore and Miriams skills and Zilare and Astras specialties...


Phoenix, when you say something being OP, what do you mean exactly? Something being not fair?

While the Sea Dog ability seems very good on paper, they don't actually are that dangerous. While they could kill Azures and Archangels, that doesn't really happen - while Cove may seems like a fast town, it turns out 7/9 other towns + all the juicy neutral dragons outspeed Haspids, Cove's fastest unit, creating a situation where Seadogs will either get blocked or killed before they can shoot anything. Mighty moos are way more consistent, as they cannot be blocked in such away + also have way more HP(and Fortress as a whole has never considered being OP)

AFAIK, Cove is considered somewhat avarage in MP games, and in order to balancesomething, two people playing against each other is the best way to tell something about balance. Poor AI gets crushed anyway, even it would have access to "op" stuff.

And why they should look at the heroes you mentioned? Elmore = Sylvia, who was never a problem. Miriam is a nice(ish) secondary hero, but that's all she is.

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Gravedigger
Gravedigger


Hired Hero
posted February 13, 2020 08:09 PM

The last 4 months I was watching every type of H3 stream i could find. Bank battle always looks the same on every single time. Players learned the strategy and each time it looks the same.

Setup of units, movement of units, spells - just monotony

But here it comes, my idea:
What if we clone Conservatory, Experimental Shop, Naga Bank, etc and change the placement of Guards?

For example:
There would be 5 types of Griffin Conservatory in the game
- Icon should stay the same for every single one,
- Description should stay the same,
- Amount of Guards should stay the same,
- Type of guards should stay the same,
- Variation of guard placement should increase, but player should never know which setup he gonna attack

Final Result- 1 Bank, 4 or 5 levels of strength, 5 levels of Variety, Players should be always prepared for tough battle, that should also decrease of 1 unit stacks. Yes players will be crying that its to hard ... since they can't make a Day1 Banks... they will be crying about RNG, but hey they can always sacrifice a hero to check it out right ?

I hope it has any sense ...

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pellish
pellish


Famous Hero
posted February 13, 2020 08:17 PM

phoenix4ever said:
It's not really something new, but I gotta say I really don't like that.........


Right, it's not new at all. It's you repeating the same complaints over and over again.

We get it. You don't like the balance in HotA. It doesn't really matter though since this is what you get. Your opinion on what is unbalanced and OP weighs even less considering the fact that you (and correct me if I'm wrong here) play the same one map over and over again. Don't you ever get tired of this nitpicking?

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 13, 2020 08:39 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 20:49, 13 Feb 2020.

@Hourglass and pellish
You can call it nitpicking or whatever you want, but fact is that a level 3 unit can kill the most powerful unit in the game, that costs 30K gold and 20 mercury and they can do it ranged!
A hero that makes 600 gold from day 1 is not to be overlooked either.
Elmore is NOT like Sylvia, he starts with Advanced Navigation and specialty, which makes him a formiddable scout on water. Miriam with both Logistics, Scouting and Scouting specialty is also a bit too convenient. (old version of Miriam and Jeremy was perfect.)
Cure specialty is useless (also for Uland) and Forgetfulness specialty is also useless.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 13, 2020 10:42 PM

Phoenix4ever said:
@Hourglass and pellish
You can call it nitpicking or whatever you want, but fact is that a level 3 unit can kill the most powerful unit in the game, that costs 30K gold and 20 mercury and they can do it ranged!
A hero that makes 600 gold from day 1 is not to be overlooked either.
Elmore is NOT like Sylvia, he starts with Advanced Navigation and specialty, which makes him a formiddable scout on water. Miriam with both Logistics, Scouting and Scouting specialty is also a bit too convenient. (old version of Miriam and Jeremy was perfect.)
Cure specialty is useless (also for Uland) and Forgetfulness specialty is also useless.


I'm not following.

Miriam being too convenient? She has Logistics + a skill you would never want to your main? How especially she's too convenient? Because she happens to have two adventure skills? By that logic most of the magic heroes are too convenient, since most of the time, the have wisdom + intelligence/mysticism/scholar/sorcery type of "magic skill + magic skill" combination. There are also bunch of heroes having combat + combat skill, like archery + offence, armorer + tactics type of combo. This has never been an issue in the game before, and I fail to see how it's one now.


Also, I already gave you an explanation to why Sea Dogs are not such a problem that you're presenting. Do you realize how extremely seldom such situation would even come up, where unblocked sea dogs with enough man power can shoot Azure Dragons actually triggering the effect, and with that, somehow managing it to make a difference in the fight?
I've been playing Hota from 2014, at least on monthly, mostly weekly basis, and cannot say for sure if such a situation has ever come up.
Generally speaking, it makes no sense to balance something because there's "that custom map" where this kind of thing happens - map maker has pretty much full control how his map functions, so if he feels such an event shouldn't come up, he has numerous ways dealing with that, like disabling gunpowder warehouse etc.


Yes, I know Elmore has adv. Navigation, but that somehow being a problem...


Astra and Zilare are filler heroes, made only to be bought from the tavern as secondary heroes. Here I actually agree with you, at least to some extend, as I belive every hero should be somewhat good at something, capable of filling even a slightest niche. I feel Zilare is unique enough, and starts with lvl 3 spell, which has some uses sometimes.
I cannot also think how would another take on "Forgetfulness specialist" work, as any other specialist never does bring any "additional effect" to the table. Just better effect, more dmg, etc. As the effect of Forgetfulness cannot really be boosted, I think the double duration is a fair decision.

But Astra is a different story. Game already has one Cure specialist, Cove has low hp units, Nix is really the only good target for cure, as healing on Haspids is actually anti-synergy -they deal more dmg the more hurt they are. So yeah, it would be a good decision to change the speciality.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 13, 2020 11:24 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 23:27, 13 Feb 2020.

Okay let me try to explain everything again:

Miriam can be used as a scout, but she can also be used as main. Scouting might not be an ideal pick for a main hero, but I can think of at least 5-10 skills that are worse for a main hero. And there is a good synergy between Logistics, Scouting and Scouting specialty and like Elmore she is a very good scout (or main) but on land.

About Sea Dogs the Azure Dragons was just an example, it could also be Gold/Black Dragons. Let's say you face a full Cove army and the enemys Sea Dogs shoot at your Gold Dragons and you lose 3 by Accurate Shot and ooops they got morale and killed 3 more. You have Expert Earth Magic and Resurrection, too bad it does'nt work on Gold Dragons though.

Elmore, well I just think Advanced Navigation and specialty is too much, he is too good a scout on water.

Zilare, well perhaps there should'nt have been a Forgetfulness specialty in the first place. It's like specialising in Blind, how would you do that? By doubling duration? So it lasts 50 turns instead of 25, yeah that's pretty pointless.

Astra I am glad we agree about her.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted February 14, 2020 11:34 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:45, 14 Feb 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
It's not really something new, but...
... today I woke up feeling I have to complain about something so, here it goes.
Please, no one sane gives a sh!t about your complains anymore. You have complained about one thing being black and complained about it being white, when they turned it to white.
The trade of Logistics from Jeremy to Miriam was genius, Offense is probably the worst starting skill for a scout cause you don't keep much army on them but it's quite good on an Artillery specialist and Logistics is ideal for scouting.
And while it's true Accurate Shot can kill level 7 and above monsters with ease, ten or twenty Azures may look too much but ten or twenty Harpy Hags won't and enemy armies aren't always composed of dozens of level 7 units.
What happened? Did you got your ass kicked by Cove last night?
Stop playing random hero, start playing other maps and maybe (just maybe, cause I think this is just attention seeking) your complains diminish.
____________
The only reason i argue with you people is because i don't want the bullsnow you all spout to be so easily spread to the impressionable without another sane voice challenging you.  -  Fred79

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 14, 2020 01:30 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:30, 14 Feb 2020.

That was quite a harsh reply but okay, I guess we will just agree to disagree.

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fidanas
fidanas


Adventuring Hero
posted February 14, 2020 06:50 PM
Edited by fidanas at 18:51, 14 Feb 2020.

hahaha...i love reading all of you oldtimers. Bless you.
____________
Just another turn and i'm done...

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 14, 2020 07:39 PM

phoenix4ever said:

Miriam can be used as a scout, but she can also be used as main. Scouting might not be an ideal pick for a main hero, but I can think of at least 5-10 skills that are worse for a main hero. And there is a good synergy between Logistics, Scouting and Scouting specialty and like Elmore she is a very good scout (or main) but on land.



Sure, the Logistics is nice skill to have, but in all honesty, Miriam is probably one of least suitable captains to be your main, especially if you manage to get Logistics for a better hero. There simply isn't usage for Scouting - especially as a speciality - on your main hero.

And as a secondary hero, she's good, but you're giving way too much profit to the scouting skill, if you think Miriam is somehow OP.

phoenix4ever said:

About Sea Dogs the Azure Dragons was just an example, it could also be Gold/Black Dragons. Let's say you face a full Cove army and the enemys Sea Dogs shoot at your Gold Dragons and you lose 3 by Accurate Shot and ooops they got morale and killed 3 more. You have Expert Earth Magic and Resurrection, too bad it does'nt work on Gold Dragons though.



I feel like I've already answered this, but let's try one more time: in the given scenario, both dragons would outspeed the whole Cove faction, where the player controlling them would have numerous ways to deal with this "issue."

I've made a personal ranking list for every creature tier, and in that, Sea Dogs weren't capable to dethrone the mighty Grand Elfs. While Sea dogs are sure better in the late game, grand elfs are beasts in the early game + they are far easier to build and cheaper to hire. This is, ofc nothing but my personal opinion.


phoenix4ever said:

Zilare, well perhaps there should'nt have been a Forgetfulness specialty in the first place. It's like specialising in Blind, how would you do that? By doubling duration? So it lasts 50 turns instead of 25, yeah that's pretty pointless.



Actually, Blind specialist like that would be a good hero.

Nevertheless, I think you're being a bit too harsh on Zilare. I noticed that while you've mentioned a bunch of Cove heroes being too good or too bad, you haven't mentioned Dargem the air shield specialist, so I expect that you feel like he's in a right spot?

Now, Air shield and Forgetfulness are quite comperable - other reduces the incoming damage on targetet unit, and the other makes the shooter deal less damage. In some situations, you should totally cast Air shield, and sometimes it's better to go for Forgetfulness. I think this should even deserve it's own topic, I blew my mind when I tried to think all the possible situations.

All and all, they are quite comperable, so if you feel like there's nothing wrong with Dargem, you should give more credit to Zilare as well.

But I'm getting a bit sidetracked, as this was really about Zilare. One could say he's bad because he doesn't scale, but I say he doesn't need to. Zilare might be your best bet against a guard with ranged attack, that you need to deal with early on. In multiplayer you need to progress fast, and all heroes are participated in fighting, so passing your whole army to Zilare and letting him to do the spesific battle is a thing.

You also asked why there is a Forgetfulness specialist in the first place?

I personally find it good that there's a variety between heroes. That's why I think it was good from Hota teams side to introduce Air Shield, Clone, Scouting, Learning and Forgetfulness specialists, even most of them are not going to win any "best hero in the game" awards. Before the release of Cove, there were already over 150 heroes, so in my eyes it only makes sense they desinged a bunch of heroes with new specialities.

And the reason why Zilare doesn't have another special, but would still have Forgetfulness is that Hota went with NWC desing philosophy: If hero has a lvl 2+ spell (that isn't a protection from air), the hero will also speasialize in that spell.

PS. I know I can sound somewhat harsh, but I don't really mean it that way - English isn't my first language, so I might say something in an unfriendly way, even that's not my point. Also, I love homm gaming discussions, and don't hesitate to participate in a debate, if I feel I've something to say.

Peace

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 14, 2020 08:40 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 22:43, 14 Feb 2020.

@Hourglass
Thank you for a constructive reply and no hard feelings mate.

Okay Miriam is probably not that OP anymore, but now HotA have also toned down both Logistics and Scouting specialty, so perhaps she's alright now.

Well I don't know how much more there is to say, but I will say I am perfectly fine with Dargem, Air Shield is a special that actually scales and in higher levels with Expert Air Magic he will take little damage from ranged units with Air Shield. I actually like Dargem so much that I adapted his specialty to Melodia, which has perhaps the most useless specialty in the game. Remember also that Air Shield protects against arrow towers and creatures with mind spell immunity, Forgetfulness does not.

I also appreciate the new specialties HotA introduced, though Learning is still useless and Forgetfulness is just meh.
Scouting and Air Shield are nice though, also Clone which is very powerful.
I hope for some more new interesting specialties with the Factory heroes. (Curse, Misfortune and Sorrow perhaps.)

Yeah double duration for Blind could perhaps be useful, but Blind is OP enough already.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2020 01:08 AM

phoenix4ever said:

Well I don't know how much more there is to say, but I will say I am perfectly fine with Dargem, Air Shield is a special that actually scales and in higher levels with Expert Air Magic he will take little damage from ranged units with Air Shield. I actually like Dargem so much that I adapted his specialty to Melodia, which has perhaps the most useless specialty in the game. Remember also that Air Shield protects against arrow towers and creatures with mind spell immunity, Forgetfulness does not.


I would say in general Forgetfulness is better - if you max both of their skills, Air shield makes you take 50% damage, but Forgetfulness kinda makes you take 0%. As you mentioned, there are exeptions (5 creatures + warmachines to be exact), but the same could be said about Air Shield, as it doesn't protect against Accurate shot, and Sea Witches and Sorceresses can still cast weakness/disturbing ray. In siege battles, thou, Air Shield is clearly better.

phoenix4ever said:

I hope for some more new interesting specialties with the Factory heroes. (Curse, Misfortune and Sorrow perhaps.)




Curse, and of course Bless specialist could indeed be cool to see. I also think Slow specialists could be possible now, the effect would be the pre-nerfed version.

Land mine would also be very fitting to the Factory. I'm not sure about Misfortune and Sorrow, same goes for Mirth, I feel the heroes with one of those spells as speciality would face the same faith as Melodia and Daremyth, and nobody would like them

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 15, 2020 08:02 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 08:14, 15 Feb 2020.

But with Air Shield specialty you can actually take a lot less than 50% damage...

We already have one Bless specialist, (Adela) but I suppose we could have one more.

I don't really like Slow as specialty. (Haste and Slow are still too powerful.)

If a Misfortune specialist encounters Melodia, perhaps she would actually have a reason to cast Fortune.

Mirth I don't think would be a good specialty, but Misfortune and Sorrow could work.

Land Mine on the other hand is one of the most useless spells, I even made it much cheaper and much more powerful, but I still never cast it... Now if you could actually place the mines yourself or they caused the enemy to lose their turn like Quicksand, perhaps it could see some use.
But like Fire Wall (Luna) Land Mine is a spell AI cannot cast, so is also a bit unfair.

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Weilan
Weilan


Hired Hero
posted February 16, 2020 08:20 AM

Phoenix4ever said:
@Hourglass and pellish
You can call it nitpicking or whatever you want, but fact is that a level 3 unit can kill the most powerful unit in the game, that costs 30K gold and 20 mercury and they can do it ranged!
A hero that makes 600 gold from day 1 is not to be overlooked either.
Elmore is NOT like Sylvia, he starts with Advanced Navigation and specialty, which makes him a formiddable scout on water. Miriam with both Logistics, Scouting and Scouting specialty is also a bit too convenient. (old version of Miriam and Jeremy was perfect.)
Cure specialty is useless (also for Uland) and Forgetfulness specialty is also useless.


That's kinda like David and Goliath. It's good that you don't need a level 7 creature to kill another level 7 creature. The Haspids in Cove aren't that great of a 7 level creature - their attack isn't amazing and neither is their movement, Black/Gold Dragons, Archangels/Archdevils, Titans are far better level 7 creatures and I think it's only right that Sea Dogs are the way they are for a level 3 creature.

From what I've seen in Heroes 3 since starting in 1999, each town has like 2 good creatures, and the rest are so-so and cannon fodder. For Cove it's the Sea Dogs and Sea Witches, but as both are archer units, there are various ways of incapacitating them and preventing them from shooting, so I don't see the issue. Cove, overall has lots of drawbacks, for me one of the biggest in the game is if a town doesn't have a level 5 Mage Guild. That's why despite how much I love Cove and it's probably my favorite town, I continue to play Rampart to this day. It's probably going to be the same with Factory when it releases - I'm going to fool around with it, but them being a technology-oriented faction, most likely means they won't have a level 5 Mage Guild, so I will be back to playing Rampart again.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 16, 2020 09:15 AM

@Weilan

Good news: it's been confirmed that Factory has a lvl 5 mage guild

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 16, 2020 10:41 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:46, 16 Feb 2020.

@Weilan But fact is that Haspids and Ayssids are also strong. (and fast)
If you base your idea of whether a town is good or bad on if it has level 5 Mage Guild or not, I wonder if you think Castle is a bad town then?, and what about Stronghold and Fortress with only level 3 then?
With level 5 you might get Magic Mirror or Sacrifice as Necropolis, which would be pretty useless and then you have wasted tons of resources...
Yes it's confirmed Factory will also have Mage Guild 5.

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