Heroes of Might and Magic Community
visiting hero! Register | Today's Posts | Games | Search! | FAQ/Rules | AvatarList | MemberList | Profile


Age of Heroes Headlines:  
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
6 Aug 2016: Troubled Heroes VII Expansion Release - read more
26 Apr 2016: Heroes VII XPack - Trial by Fire - Coming out in June! - read more
17 Apr 2016: Global Alternative Creatures MOD for H7 after 1.8 Patch! - read more
7 Mar 2016: Romero launches a Piano Sonata Album Kickstarter! - read more
19 Feb 2016: Heroes 5.5 RC6, Heroes VII patch 1.7 are out! - read more
13 Jan 2016: Horn of the Abyss 1.4 Available for Download! - read more
17 Dec 2015: Heroes 5.5 update, 1.6 out for H7 - read more
23 Nov 2015: H7 1.4 & 1.5 patches Released - read more
31 Oct 2015: First H7 patches are out, End of DoC development - read more
5 Oct 2016: Heroes VII development comes to an end.. - read more
[X] Remove Ads
LOGIN:     Username:     Password:         [ Register ]
HOMM1: info forum | HOMM2: info forum | HOMM3: info mods forum | HOMM4: info CTG forum | HOMM5: info mods forum | MMH6: wiki forum | MMH7: wiki forum
Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 196 pages long: 1 20 40 60 80 100 120 ... 136 137 138 139 140 ... 160 180 196 · «PREV / NEXT»
Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
posted May 05, 2020 03:19 AM
Edited by Rimgrabber at 03:24, 05 May 2020.

Phoenix4ever said:
Witch is generally a terrible class, but since they have the highest chance of learning Eagle Eye, they could have some inherited Eagle Eye ability. Then we could ditch Eagle Eye skill and artifacts entirely.
Could do the same with Clerics and First Aid. (They still need to get a tent somewhere, which really should have been in the Castle Blacksmith in the first place).


That takes care of the problem of worrying you'll get eagle eye but doesn't really make Witch a better class. Agree with Clerics though. They should be able to resurrect creatures with their tents. Make Rion go from utterly useless to top tier in a single stroke.

Quote:
Then again, it would be a bit strange for some factions. For example, what can be in common to an Alchemist and a Wizard? Alchemy? Still the Alchemist class needs to be better at it and Wizard class has to be better at casting spells.


IMO Tower's faction ability could be something involving the building of constructs; that would fit both classes as it blends magic and science which is kind of the whole theme of the Tower. Maybe it could be something like you could convert excess resources into gargoyles/golems/giants, giants of course costing much more than the former two. Or maybe they could upgrade golems into steel/gold/diamond golems with extra resources? It would be similar to a mix of Haven's faction skill in H5 and Gelu/Dracon's specializations.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 05, 2020 08:04 AM

Rimgrabber said:
That takes care of the problem of worrying you'll get eagle eye but doesn't really make Witch a better class. Agree with Clerics though. They should be able to resurrect creatures with their tents. Make Rion go from utterly useless to top tier in a single stroke.

By inherent I meant that they should'nt use a skill slot on Eagle Eye, it should be some kinda bonus ability, only for Witches.
They were supposed to become better, not worse.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 05, 2020 10:01 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 10:05, 05 May 2020.

I guess in a very simple approach it makes sense that Witches have the best chance for Eagle Eye, they are originally from a town whose mage guild only goes up to level 3 but, contrarily to Battle Mages, are strongly magic oriented, so learning some level 4 spells from battling would help.
Of course, what looks good on paper may not result that well in game but that's a different story.  
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 05, 2020 10:14 AM

Yes in theory Eagle Eye makes sense, since Fortress only has Mage Guild 3, but who in their right mind would ever pick Eagle Eye...

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 05, 2020 10:28 AM

Someone that doesn't know Slow, Haste or Blind while his nearby enemy does it?

* You have to publish your map. I was going to make a dissertation about "creature bank's metagame" but suddenly I remembered I have no idea if there are even creature banks in it.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 05, 2020 10:36 AM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 10:37, 05 May 2020.

So do you ever pick Eagle Eye then?, on secondary or main heroes?

My map?, there are a few creature banks in it, but generally I dislike them, I don't think Inferno is supposed to run around with angels or Dungeon is supposed to run around with giants.
To have all armies contain angels, wyverns, cyclops etc. also gets old fast.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted May 05, 2020 10:53 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 10:53, 05 May 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
So do you ever pick Eagle Eye then?, on secondary or main heroes?

My map?, there are a few creature banks in it, but generally I dislike them, I don't think Inferno is supposed to run around with angels or Dungeon is supposed to run around with giants.
To have all armies contain angels, wyverns, cyclops etc. also gets old fast.


Gotta agree with that. If anything, my map has few "random" banks, and the other banks correspond to the town in the area or the player's main faction (eg. a Fortress area has Wyvern banks and also maybe a few Giant banks, since the player's main faction is Tower).

Actually, there are 3 main human players (with 3 different factions) on my map and 5 PC, but you get the idea. Besides, on my map it's be pointless to live only from banks, since you encounter more of them only later on, and 4 more Titans when you already have 100 aren't too much.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 05, 2020 11:10 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 11:36, 05 May 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
So do you ever pick Eagle Eye then?, on secondary or main heroes?

Probably not but I will definitively hire someone with it, if I'm in the pre-described situation.
For instance, if you're playing Cove no spell research will ever give you Blind, so if I find out a nearby enemy has it I may try to use an hero with EE to learn it. Of course, I can also try to conquer his own town and learn it there.

phoenix4ever said:
To have all armies contain angels, wyverns, cyclops etc. also gets old fast.

It's worst then that. If you can get three or four times more army from banks then you can hire in your original town, the balance imagined by the original developers is meaningless.
For instance, a Fortress (or a Stronghold without cyclops) almost don't have any shooting capacity so town attack is all on some weak fliers. If enemy already built castle when you attack it with 2 or 3 weeks worth of army you probably going to lose. But if you got five or six angels and a pack of cyclops from nearby banks things may look very differently...
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted May 05, 2020 12:08 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 12:11, 05 May 2020.

That's not what he meant. He meant it's plain boring to just play with the same army over and over again, just from banks. I mean, it's nice to have a big army like that, but kinda beats the scope sometimes.

And 5-6 Angels is almost half the army in week 2-3 + a pack of Cyclops.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 05, 2020 12:28 PM

I know what he meant but I'm talking about how the actual creature banks meta affects the balance between towns. And yes, the addiction of 5-6 angels and a pack of cyclops almost doubles the value of a three weeks army but that's nothing compared to what good players take from banks within that time in the most played templates.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
DoR Modder
posted May 05, 2020 12:34 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 12:35, 05 May 2020.

bloodsucker said:
I know what he meant but I'm talking about how the actual creature banks meta affects the balance between towns. And yes, the addiction of 5-6 angels and a pack of cyclops almost doubles the value of a three weeks army but that's nothing compared to what good players take from banks within that time in the most played templates.


I know that. Still, it's boring, whatever the meta between towns is, and just makes the game a rush to get as many bank creatures as possible, at least on those templates. And even the fact that someone can manage even higher numbers of those creatures in 2-3 weeks means something's wrong with the meta/templates.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."
The Reckoning.... it's drawing near....

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | PP | Quote Reply | Link
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted May 05, 2020 12:39 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:44, 05 May 2020.

FirePaladin said:
makes the game a rush to get as many bank creatures as possible, at least on those templates.
That's what I'm calling "creature banks metagame".

FirePaladin said:
And even the fact that someone can manage even higher numbers of those creatures in 2-3 weeks means something's wrong with the meta/templates.
I couldn't agree more.
____________

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 05, 2020 01:44 PM

Got a bit exicited about Docent's last post in the main thread. He said they're going to somehow change the warmachines. Not sure if this means they're simply going to change their stats, or will they actually make new marchines (for each town), as their original plan was back in the day.

There haven't been that many new desings for new warmachines, so here's few takes:

Trebutchet - Deals AOE damage to enemies (and can hit your own troops.) Possibly same-ish stats as the current ballista, but would be more expensive and this could run out of ammo instead. Goes to the same slot as Ballista and Cannon. Unlike them, the player would have control over trebutched even if he wouldn't have any kind of secondary skill. However, the "aimed shot" (pressing the G button) could only be accessed if player had Artillery or similiar skill. If this should be related to a town, maybe most suitable would be Dungeon.

Potion wagon - When an enemy stack is slain, your hero recovers one point of mana immediately. Has the same stats as ammo cart, exept Potion wagon would be more expansive. Obviosly goes to the same slot as Ammo cart. Probably most suitable town would be Inferno.

Plague tent - This has been requested by many of you before and, I too, find it very fitting to the game. Obviosly related to Necropolis, just like in Homm5. However, unlike in that game, I suggest Plague tent could only give some sort of poison debuff to single target enemy minion, and couldn't heal or deal direct damage. The tent could only target living resurectable creatures. Would have the same stats as the current first aid tent, maybe costing a tiny bit more than the current tent (like 1000g instead of 750g)

Changes to the existing war machines:

First Aid tent
These are mostly the changes done by Phoenix in his mod:

The amount of healed is always fixed amount, and does not range. Therefore, "unskilled" tent would always heal 25 HP.
The total HP of tent should also be increased, it could be perhaps be doubled to 150. If the whole war machine system would be changed, there wouldn't be so much need for making the tent super durable IMO.
If each faction would have it's own war machine, I suggest giving the tent to Fortress, as it has a defensive theme anyway, and I highly associate Witches in Homm with healing capabilties.

Ballista would be left to Castle only, and Tower would get the Ammo cart.

Stronghold would be changed somehow, maybe the current upgrade to their blacksmith, ballista yard, could be renamed and perhaps it would sell all the war machines in the current War machine factory.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 05, 2020 02:02 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 14:05, 05 May 2020.

Hmm not sure we need a 3rd Ballista/Cannon, Ballista specialists were already made obsolete by the Cannon, so a 3rd "attack machine", would just make the problem even worse.
Now if you could have Ballista + Cannon + Trebuchet, we are talking, but that sounds almost impossible to implement.
The other ideas sounds pretty cool, but maybe Ballista/Cannon, First Aid Tent/Plague Tent and Ammo Cart/???, so two possibilities for each war machine slot.
Heroes that specialise in Ballista should also specialise in Cannon. (and the same with Jeremy) Or HotA could buff Ballista, so it becomes as good as Cannon, but different...


 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 05, 2020 05:34 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 19:50, 05 May 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
Hmm not sure we need a 3rd Ballista/Cannon, Ballista specialists were already made obsolete by the Cannon, so a 3rd "attack machine", would just make the problem even worse.


I think Ballista could use a very tiny buff, and then it's very comparerable to cannon, as it still has 3x more ammuntation than the Cannon. If they're not willing to change the original stats, maybe it could scale better with artillery, or whatever it will be called in the future. Perhaps making it cheaper would also help something. If it costed 1500g instead, there would be more reasons to buy it early as well.

I agree that adding more "attack machines" isn't the most exiting thing ever, but my plan was to desing a new war machine for each faction. IMO these damage dealing machines are the most useful and important ones - being able to purchace first aid tent or especially the ammo cart isn't often helpful at all, as those never scaled with your hero, therefore their ability to change the battle outcome was always very minimal. Cannon and even ballista can actually carry your hero.

So, if only 2 attack machines existed, it would be very hard for non-cove and non-castle towns to receive any kind of additional firepower to their arsenal. This hasn't been the case before, as currently half of the existing towns could sell you either ballista or cannon. My point here is not only to make each town feel more unique, but by adding more war machines, players could mix them together, and use them as a tool to build their hero as well.
--

Few new desings:

Magic Arbalest

Similiar to Ballista, this deals damage to targeted enemy. However, the arbalest is only loaded if either you or one your creature's casts a spell. This warmachine also cares about the  elemental of the cast spell. If the last casted spell was:

Earth -> Dealt damage is increased by each point of enemy defence.
Air -> deals more damage to targets with low defence.
Fire -> Dealt damage is increased by each point of enemy speed.
Water -> deals more damage to creatures with low speed.

Has unlimited ammuntation, but can only shoot if a spell was casted by you or a creature you control during that round. The base damage dealt by this would be rather poor, but player could dish pretty good damage, if he uses this with it's maxium potential.
Graphical hint would also be applied - the shootable arrow in the warmachine glows in red for example, if the last casted spell was fire. Uses the ballista/cannon slot, and is usable only by Conflux.

Might be a bit complex desing, but my aim here is to make Conflux benefit from it's vast pool of spells, and also make the upg. elementals spellcasting ability to matter somehow.

Edit: Indeed too complex: Instead of all of that, damage should simply scale with spell levels instead = in order to get best possible bonus damage, the player should cast lvl 5 spell first. And oh, only 8 shots in that case.

Commander's tent

Once per round targets a friendly creature, removing all the negative morale bonuses gained by having creatures from multiple towns. (temple of loyality effect) Also increases target's damage dealt by lucky attacks. The effect lasts for 3 rounds. Rather cheap war machine, obviosly goes to the tent slot, only usable by Rampart.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 05, 2020 06:24 PM

One thing I don't understand, is why nerf Intelligence, but ignore Mana Vortex?
I think Expert Intelligence and Mana Vortex would be perfect at 60%. (Intelligence 20/40/60)

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 05, 2020 07:57 PM

phoenix4ever said:
One thing I don't understand, is why nerf Intelligence, but ignore Mana Vortex?
I think Expert Intelligence and Mana Vortex would be perfect at 60%. (Intelligence 20/40/60)


I agree with intelligence, the scaling like that would be better. Mostly because that would avoid the weardest scaling ever. (advanced gives less % than basic)

The mana vortex is indeed very powerful object. I don't think the % should be changed, but the building requirements could. For multiplayer point of view, it could be better if mage guild level 2 would be required. Therefore finding a Dungeon town wouldn't be as big of a deal.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted May 05, 2020 08:35 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 20:37, 05 May 2020.

But Mana Vortex costs only 1000 gold and has double the effect of Expert Intelligence! Why should Intelligence be cut in half, but very cheap and easy to build Mana Vortex is still a-okay, it does'nt make sense to me.
Yeah Mage Guild 2 or 3 could be a requirement, but it still seems to powerful compared to Intelligence.
Also notice that AI can't build Mana Vortex, so the more powerful this building is, the more we f*** up the AI.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted May 05, 2020 08:59 PM

Phoenix4ever said:
But Mana Vortex costs only 1000 gold and has double the effect of Expert Intelligence! Why should Intelligence be cut in half, but very cheap and easy to build Mana Vortex is still a-okay, it does'nt make sense to me.
Yeah Mage Guild 2 or 3 could be a requirement, but it still seems to powerful compared to Intelligence.
Also notice that AI can't build Mana Vortex, so the more powerful this building is, the more we f*** up the AI.


Well, the AI should be taught that double mana is actually very valuable
I agree that the object is dirt cheap. Perhaps it should also require 5 of all special resources. After all, it's very magic related, and normally it means cost of special resources in this game. I would not nerf it otherwise, as it gives some real identity to the Dungeon, but currently it's very obtainable for everyone, which I personally see as bit of a problem.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted May 05, 2020 10:54 PM

Regarding new warmachines, I think (and hope) we'll rather get new skins and a change in stats than groundbreaking new mechanics.

If the First Aid skill is to be made worthwhile something has to be done about the tent, too.

 Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link
Jump To: « Prev Thread . . . Next Thread » This Popular Thread is 196 pages long: 1 20 40 60 80 100 120 ... 136 137 138 139 140 ... 160 180 196 · «PREV / NEXT»
Post New Poll    Post New Topic    Post New Reply

Page compiled in 0.2519 seconds