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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 149 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 ... 145 146 147 148 149 · «PREV / NEXT»
Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted June 23, 2020 04:28 PM

UntalentedHero said:
Speaking about balancing, maybe I'm missing something, but don't you think that some buildings that give bonuses when defending against sieges are pretty useless with high hero levels? I'm thinking on the Blood Obelisk and Glyphs of Fear of Fortress, which gives +2 Attack and +2 Defense respectively, or Inferno's Brimstone Clouds, which grants +2 Spell Power. From my standpoint, the bonuses they give are ineffective and I highly doubt that they tip the balance in any battle. So maybe it could be a good idea to change the effect of that buildings so instead of giving an unalterable +2 to an Attibute, they give a 20% bonus, so it scales with the hero's primary skills.

Well, that's my two cents. What do you think?


I would say the buildings are very bad, but I wouldn't describe them as "ineffective," and they can totally make the defending hero slightly better. Inferno's +2 spellpower guarantees that your hero will have at least 3 spellpower, which starts to make some difference, as the buff/debuff spells can be quite meaningless in a long run when cast with lower rates. Fortress can provide both attack and defence, plus they have the best moat in the game, so those might stats can add up for sure.

Now, those building are really bad as they only do something on siege, but I belive they're slightly better than you're giving them credit for.

If the bonuses would scale instead of being flat, only "good" heroes would benefit from them. Usually I find myself using fresh heroes in order to defend the town. One can also defend a town with main hero by using Teleport, but that's not always possible because of multiple reasons. As the low level heroes tend to have bad stats, the flat bonus is usually better for them. You suggested giving +20% more of the chosen primary skill, but that would mean the hero would need 10 primary points in order to match the current bonus.

Finally, I think sieging is already quite challangeling, as the defender can have multiple advantages. I don't think there is a real need for making the mentioned buildings any better.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 23, 2020 08:25 PM

I have said it before and I'll say it again:
HotA Crew will you please consider changing some heroes spell specialties.
* Cure is useless and one of the very worst spell specialties. (Uland and Astra)
* Forgetfulness only affects duration, which after you have a few points in Spell Power feels useless. (Zilare)
* Fortune is useless, when she already has Luck. (Melodia)
* Bloodlust when half the army is immune to Fire and half the rest is ranged. (Inteus, maybe also Ash since Bloodlust does'nt work on Efreet.)
* Precision only affect orcs and cyclopes and perhaps a ballista/cannon. (Zubin)
* Hypnotize what is the point really? (Astral)
* Disrupting Ray does not really seem worth it. (Aenain)
* Fire Wall is a cheaters spell, since AI can't use it. (Luna)
* Weakness when Dragonflies already applies it. (Mirlanda)
* Stone Skin does not work on Magic Elementals. (Labetha)
* Haste does'nt work on Magic Elementals and Phoenixes have no use for Haste really. (Brissa)

The biggest offender is probably Melodia as she does'nt work for any town! Cure as I said is also useless, so is Forgetfulness and Bloodlust when 3 units are immune to it, is also really stupid.

I guess I could just change them (minus Cove) myself and perhaps I will, but then there will be a lot of similar spell specialties, so new spell specialties would also be welcome, for example Curse, Misfortune and Sorrow.

Or just give us an option to easily change heroes specialties.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 23, 2020 08:36 PM

Along with Dispel, Cure is one of the most important spells in Water school. So please, whatever you do, don't mess with them.
____________
The only reason i argue with you people is because i don't want the bullsnow you all spout to be so easily spread to the impressionable without another sane voice challenging you.  -  Fred79

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 23, 2020 08:37 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 20:38, 23 Jun 2020.

Yes, but as a specialty it is useless. (It's not like Cure is a hard spell to learn either.)

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UntalentedHero
UntalentedHero

Tavern Dweller
posted June 23, 2020 10:19 PM

Hourglass said:
UntalentedHero said:
Speaking about balancing, maybe I'm missing something, but don't you think that some buildings that give bonuses when defending against sieges are pretty useless with high hero levels? I'm thinking on the Blood Obelisk and Glyphs of Fear of Fortress, which gives +2 Attack and +2 Defense respectively, or Inferno's Brimstone Clouds, which grants +2 Spell Power. From my standpoint, the bonuses they give are ineffective and I highly doubt that they tip the balance in any battle. So maybe it could be a good idea to change the effect of that buildings so instead of giving an unalterable +2 to an Attibute, they give a 20% bonus, so it scales with the hero's primary skills.

Well, that's my two cents. What do you think?


I would say the buildings are very bad, but I wouldn't describe them as "ineffective," and they can totally make the defending hero slightly better. Inferno's +2 spellpower guarantees that your hero will have at least 3 spellpower, which starts to make some difference, as the buff/debuff spells can be quite meaningless in a long run when cast with lower rates. Fortress can provide both attack and defence, plus they have the best moat in the game, so those might stats can add up for sure.

Now, those building are really bad as they only do something on siege, but I belive they're slightly better than you're giving them credit for.

If the bonuses would scale instead of being flat, only "good" heroes would benefit from them. Usually I find myself using fresh heroes in order to defend the town. One can also defend a town with main hero by using Teleport, but that's not always possible because of multiple reasons. As the low level heroes tend to have bad stats, the flat bonus is usually better for them. You suggested giving +20% more of the chosen primary skill, but that would mean the hero would need 10 primary points in order to match the current bonus.

Finally, I think sieging is already quite challangeling, as the defender can have multiple advantages. I don't think there is a real need for making the mentioned buildings any better.


Well, it is true that low level heroes wouldn't benefit from my suggestion it it were implemented, but that could be easily fixed by giving always a minimum of +2.

In that way, heroes with primary skills levels between 0-14 would get +2, with a level skill of 15-19 they would get +3, an so on.

And I think that those buildings need balancing not only because they are pretty bad in their own, but also because they are a lot worse than their counterparts from Castle, which has the Brotherhood of the Sword (that gives them +2 morale) and from Rampart, which has the Fountain of Fortune (that benefits with +2 luck).

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 23, 2020 10:34 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 22:44, 23 Jun 2020.

Castle does'nt really need Brotherhood of the Sword, they get +1 morale from tavern, +1 from angels and Knights have Leadership, so this building mostly does nothing.
Rampart has 2 heroes that starts with Luck, so for them Fountain of Fortune is also mostly useless.
Again we need to raise the morale and luck caps to +6.

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Sparrow_Jack
Sparrow_Jack

Tavern Dweller
posted June 24, 2020 02:48 PM

Luck/Morale

Some people propose to increase luck/morale to values greater than +3. I have a somehow similar approach that also boosts some spells, why not make Mirth/Fortune (and probably Sorrow/Misfortune) be the only way to go past +3? That would also remove one of the problems that phoenix4ever stated(fortune and Melodia).

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted June 24, 2020 02:55 PM

A new difficulty level is Nightmare! What? AI grows troops as Hexis. Only AI! Also give double resources and AI takes less experience point for next level. I suggest less 50%. So AI reaches over 40lvl means 1,5m experience point. And if possible create a memory. So AI remembers about time event trap, for example. Memory is effective. Hm final what? AI can use DD on the cursed land but only Nightmare.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Aciel
Aciel

Tavern Dweller
posted June 24, 2020 04:49 PM
Edited by Aciel at 00:26, 25 Jun 2020.

phoenix4ever said:
Castle does'nt really need Brotherhood of the Sword, they get +1 morale from tavern, +1 from angels and Knights have Leadership, so this building mostly does nothing.
Rampart has 2 heroes that starts with Luck, so for them Fountain of Fortune is also mostly useless.
Again we need to raise the morale and luck caps to +6.



Some of the building are useless, especially in PvP where every coin matters. Buildings that offer +x stat during siege are effectively useless, building giving +1 stat are almost never used.

They would be better if there was a permanent stat increase and something better than +1. Maybe +2 or +3? If these buildings were to be changed, balance would alse be very important. Inferno could you use some more powerful power buff, Castle is a slow town that is very week without Angels, so maybe attack buff for easier POG capture? Fortress could use some buff to movement on swamp instead of defense, which it already has plenty.  

About the hero's specialisations, yeah, most of them are useless. I don't know if Hota will ever try to change this. It seems like a titanic job, much more thay you'd presume at first.

Also, please don't change Luna. Her specialty is probably the best thing in Conflux.  


About the +6 luck/morale, this is interesting. If it wouldn't turn the mechanics of the game upside down, I think it would be worth a try.
Also, luck is worse than morale so I think it should be buffed, especially since Luck is one of the worst secondary skills. Maybe it could give more money out of chests/better grade treasure, more money out of banks, it could change the chance for some creatures to trigger special effect (like the Unicorn's 20% Blind), etc.
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted June 24, 2020 08:25 PM

phoenix4ever said:
I have said it before and I'll say it again:
HotA Crew will you please consider changing some heroes spell specialties.


Well, I agree with Inteus and especially Melodia. They're simply badly designed heroes. Inteus isn't horrible, but in a Conflux lineup he doesn't make much sense. I think all heroes should atleast somehow fit the town they are presenting.

However, I don't really understand why heroes with unique specialities should be changed. What would that even mean? Hopefully you're not trying to convince them to change the specialities so we would end up not having some of them.

One thing I've noticed that you don't seem to understand that part of the speciality is actully being able to start with the spesific spell.
phoenix4ever said:
* Forgetfulness only affects duration, which after you have a few points in Spell Power feels useless. (Zilare)

The power of Zilare comes from the fact that you have Forgetfulness early on. He can do fights with very little pressure  against shooters than would normally mean heavy losses.
phoenix4ever said:
* Precision only affect orcs and cyclopes and perhaps a ballista/cannon. (Zubin)

You are completely missing the ball here. Just like Tower, and any other town at best, Stronghold can target 3 things + Catapult with Precision. Also, Precision boosts the Cyclops sieging potential. Finally, Stronghold has lvl 3 + lvl 6 shooters. Other towns with two shooters doesn't have as high lvl shooters.
phoenix4ever said:
* Hypnotize what is the point really? (Astral)

I'm unsure how you would even change it? The general problem is the spell itself. Hypnotize can become decent with higher lvl Astral, and in earlier states of the game, you can attack with low army value hero (Master Gremlins), so AI will simply split it's troops to 7 stacks, and then you can use hypnotize in order to lure enemies to wrong direction.
phoenix4ever said:
* Disrupting Ray does not really seem worth it. (Aenain)

Ehm, Aenain is a pretty solid hero actually. Not by any means main hero potential, but he can do fights that some other can't in earlier points of the game. Disrupting ray can be used in order to "downgrade" higher lvl creatures, so your lower lvl creatures can deal more damage. You only need to deal with their HP, not with their defence.
phoenix4ever said:
* Fire Wall is a cheaters spell, since AI can't use it. (Luna)

You are saying that like AI is playing fairly. Games exist to please the player, not the computer. Player and AI will never be on the same lvl in Homm3, so there's really no point of trying to make them somehow equal with seeking balance - other methods must be used instead.
phoenix4ever said:
* Stone Skin does not work on Magic Elementals. (Labetha)

I don't understand this one. Magic Elementals are immune to all magic. Should Jeddite be changed because Black Dragons cannot be ressurrected?
phoenix4ever said:
* Haste does'nt work on Magic Elementals and Phoenixes have no use for Haste really. (Brissa)

Again, same argument as with Labetha. Not to mention that Haste is really good spell to start with.

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Aciel
Aciel

Tavern Dweller
posted June 24, 2020 11:58 PM
Edited by Aciel at 00:02, 25 Jun 2020.

Ok, so I've been thinking about balancing secondary skills. Here are my propositions:

Magic Skills:
Magic should be rebalanced, I already wrote about this few pages ago. 2 changes to my last post: Magic Mirror should only be 1 unit spell and act like Anti-Magic with the difference that you could still cast positive buffs on your unit.
Instead of Shield/Curse changes, there could be 2 new spells for Fire and Water School. Fire would get a version of Haste, when units don't have higher speed, but can move further (same initiative, but movement effect similar to Haste). Water could get a version of Slow, where enemy units don't have lower speed, but their movement is limited (same initiative, movement similar to Slow).
That way every school would have spells for movement.


Archery - the same
Armorer - the same
Artillery - raises damage of Ballista for every level. For this skill to be worth anything, I think it should deal about 500-650dmg at level 20 (expert level). Canon should deal about 100dmg more. Something like:   dmg= lv*30  or dmg= lv^2 * 1,5 for ballista. Numbers could be different but damage should change with either Attack or Level. otherwise it's a wasted skill slot. Current formula includes Archery skill for damage so that should be taken for considaration too.

Diplomacy - I'd raise it so 60% of troops join your army instead of 50%

Eagle Eye - My idea is for the skill to show number of enemies in monster banks, but only in a scouting radius. That way skill would be somewhat useful, even on a main hero.
Basic - shows exact number of enemies in Dwarf Banks, Naga Banks, etc. - banks that give money
Advanced - shows exact number of enemies in monster Banks that give units
Expert - shows the content of Pandora box - just the information if it is exp, gold, magic or creatures, not the amount
Hero specialization - shows number of Dragons in Dragon Utopia

Estates - the same

First Aid  
Basic - Cure on allies (Bless if full hp), Curse on enemies
Advanced - Full Cure on allies(Bloodlust if full hp), Weakness on enemies
Expert - Resurrection on allies(Prayer if full hp), Aging on enemies  
Spells could be different, there could even be a random effect like the Djinn spellcasting, but you get my idea - current First Aid is a joke unfortunately.
Tent HP should be raised so it wouldn't be instantly one-shotted.
About 200-300hp would be ok.

Intelligence - the same
Leadership and Luck - there are some opinions that they should be changed for +6 instead of +3, seems a little too high for me, I will leave that one for now.

Learning - like somebody in this forum suggested, that should give +stat bonuses. I think that for the skill to be worthwile, it should give +5 to all stats on Expert on 20lv, so one primary skill more per level. On basic it could be +1 every 3 levels, on advanced + 1 every 2 levels.
For the system to work, the skill should be retroactive, meaning it's worth the same no matter whether you take it on 20th lv or 1st level.  

Logistics - the same
Misticism - I'd raise it to 10/15/25.

Navigation - On expert it could give additional ability to board and unboard ships without wasting a day. The only way now to do that is through the combined artifact, which is hard. I propose that change because I think water templates are too scarce and not many people play Island maps. I would even go as far as to just implement this change without any skill or artifact just to make things easier and water maps more popular.

Necromancy - the same
Offence - I don't know. Maybe change it to 5/15/25? I propose it since offence is better than defence in this game, but I'm not too sure about this one.

Pathfinding - -75% movement cost penalty on hard terrain/-100%/+25% OR -100%/+10%/+20 movement cost.
Especially moving through swamp is difficult compared to some towns, so IMO Pathfinding should be better to compensate for that weakness. It should do more than just negate additional movement cost, it should buff it.

Interference - the same
Sorcery - 10/20/+30 spell damage
Scholar - the same

Scouting - additional effect on Advance and Expert that lets you see number of enemies on map in a scouting radius (but not inside banks)  

Tactics - the same
Wisdom - the same

I have left the Ballistics skill, because I heard that Hota already have plans for that. Maybe I'll write about that in the future.

What do you guys think about that?  


 
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 25, 2020 12:06 AM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 00:10, 25 Jun 2020.

@Hourglass
I'm sorry I don't feel like discussing all the heroes again.
It just bothers me that some heroes have so bad specialties and creatures that are immune to their spells.
I fully understand half of the appeal is actually starting with that particular spell, but it's not like Magic Arrow, Haste, Cure etc. are usually hard to learn.
The reason I did'nt mentioned any Dungeon heroes and Coronius is because I changed Gold and Black Dragons resistances, so they are now only mind immune and immune to Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning and Armageddon, which means that these heroes specials actually work on them now. Hurray!
I was thinking about doing something similar with the Fire immune creatures, as I really hate they can't be affected by positive Fire spells.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 25, 2020 12:10 AM

It's a waste you aren't playing Era. The mods you would have already made... Instead you keep complaining about things no one cares about.
____________
The only reason i argue with you people is because i don't want the bullsnow you all spout to be so easily spread to the impressionable without another sane voice challenging you.  -  Fred79

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 25, 2020 12:14 AM

Maybe, but Era does'nt give me any HotA content, balance changes or bugfixes.
HotA is still what I prefer, if only it was more flexible.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 25, 2020 12:39 AM

Phoenix4ever said:
if only it was more flexible.

If it was more flexible it would be some kind of Era. It was never the intention, they promised to stay faithful SOD mechanics (that's why you don't get a Market of Time or ten skills) and add content that fit in it.
What I'm finding anoing right now is the part where they don't warrant full compatibility between versions, butcher game mechanics tested thousands of times by dozens of mapmakers and don't mind to give us a rollback for the unwanted changes. Because these aren't SOD game mechanics any more.
A custom map with Fly and DD disabled will take about 10% more time to complete but all time calculations will be mixed up, like you wont reach the stables end of day one but middle of day 3 and so on.
____________
The only reason i argue with you people is because i don't want the bullsnow you all spout to be so easily spread to the impressionable without another sane voice challenging you.  -  Fred79

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Rimgrabber
Rimgrabber


Known Hero
It's a fixer-upper
posted June 25, 2020 05:09 AM

I actually agree with phoenix here I think that all the heroes should be at least semi-viable if not as a main then give them good support abilities. I'd personally like to see more unique specializations too, doesn't have to be anything as elaborate as H5, but I'd like to see more variety. If I were to give my proposed changes to every hero could I put that here or is that too spam-y?
____________
http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=46284&pagenumber=1
^ Part 2 of my proposal for Heroes 8 (Part 3 coming soon)

http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=44815
^ My novelization

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted June 25, 2020 07:48 AM
Edited by RerryR at 07:52, 25 Jun 2020.

bloodsucker said:
It's a waste you aren't playing Era. The mods you would have already made...


Ha, I've said the exact same thing a couple of months ago With phoenix4ever a great modder has been lost for ERA. But well... he decided to go the hard way in modding, so let him suffer

And regarding the useless hero specialization discussion all I want to add: When I start my game I especially look for 1 of the 6 Eagle Eye specialists to play with, these are the most fun.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted June 25, 2020 02:21 PM

And decent ERA isn't bug 3.58f.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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UntalentedHero
UntalentedHero

Tavern Dweller
posted June 27, 2020 02:22 PM

I have a suggestion that I suposse that has been given before because it is pretty obvious, but I have checked the forums and I have not seen any recent posts about it.

Well, my suggestion is to increase the maximum number of players to 12. With Cove there are 10 factions on the game, but there is only space for 8 of them as the main cities of the players. Now that the 11th faction (Factory) is going to come and that it has been implemented a Gigantic size for maps, I think that increasing the maximum number of players is only natural. The new colors could be black, white, yellow and... another I don't visualize

It is weird that HoTA's team hasn't done anything about it, so it is entirely possible that there are reasons against it that I don't know.

Anyway, what are your opinions about this?

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sirironfist
sirironfist


Known Hero
King of the ogres
posted June 27, 2020 04:19 PM

UntalentedHero said:
I have a suggestion that I suposse that has been given before because it is pretty obvious, but I have checked the forums and I have not seen any recent posts about it.

Well, my suggestion is to increase the maximum number of players to 12. With Cove there are 10 factions on the game, but there is only space for 8 of them as the main cities of the players. Now that the 11th faction (Factory) is going to come and that it has been implemented a Gigantic size for maps, I think that increasing the maximum number of players is only natural. The new colors could be black, white, yellow and... another I don't visualize

It is weird that HoTA's team hasn't done anything about it, so it is entirely possible that there are reasons against it that I don't know.

Anyway, what are your opinions about this?


I agree about more players, if this is possible. But it wouly only be very useful if the cap for map objects could be removed at the same time. Otherwise you'll have a hard time on a G map to provide 12 players with map objects, if the limit is 32.

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