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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 149 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 ... 145 146 147 148 149 · «PREV / NEXT»
sirironfist
sirironfist


Known Hero
King of the ogres
posted June 16, 2020 03:20 PM

The discussion about additional layers is very interesting.


I think additional layers that exist below the surface can be explained quite believably. You're just moving deeper and deeper. Why not have 3 levels of subterranian tunnels? The lowest level could be something like hell. We could use a lava terrain in that case, as the equivalent to water terrain. ^^

I like the heaven idea as well, but I can't exactly imagine how that wouldn't look stupid. If it was made a bit like water terrain, allowing only some map objects, then I think there lies quite a bit of potential in it. What I don't wanna see is crystal mines and Inferno castles in heaven.

Other layers could be placed on the normal surface world as well. The portals would stand right on the edge of a map and it would allow you to cross the border. That would be a sneaky way to increase map size.

If more map layers ever happened, it would be sad, if the limit on map objects couldn't be altered at the same time. Even the way it is now, the amount of objects you can put on a map is barely enough for a 2 layer G map. As long as the limit exists, I don't think we really need more layers, as long as they don't offer something entirely new like heaven.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted June 16, 2020 04:31 PM
Edited by weilan at 16:36, 16 Jun 2020.

If the potential additional layer is something like "Deeper Underground" or something like "Untamed Underground"... something ominous-sounding like that, I am on board, but Heaven.. LOL ... That's cringefest material for The Book of Holy Cringeness. xD


I'm talking about a level of underground that is so deep, untamed and unknown, that even the Dungeon Lords are afraid of it, a place that defies time and space:

- sometimes there is light, sometimes everything is so pitch black that even torches, lanterns or magic can't light up the area
- paths you think were mapped are now completely different or interchanging
- new, unknown creatures of the deep underground lurk there
- new, yet long forgotten spells are discovered
- a new Secondary Skill is developed for traversing this place (the skill could be something to "tame" the place a little so it's not complete RNG)
- new faction maybe? or a campaign for the place?

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UntalentedHero
UntalentedHero

Tavern Dweller
posted June 16, 2020 05:53 PM

I'm not sure that a heaven layer could work, but definitely, I'm on board about expanding the underground if not with new layers, at least with new features and kinds of terrain.

sirironfist said:
The lowest level could be something like hell. We could use a lava terrain in that case, as the equivalent to water terrain. ^^


That's something that I have always thought about: adding a lava/magma terrain that functions similar to water. Actually, I think that it would work even without adding any special water objects, working only as decoration to the underground maps.

Furthermore, maybe it would be interesting to see a "Fire Walk" spell to cross the lava, and a "Traverse Earth" to cross thorugh the rock that separates underground tunnels.

On the other hand, why just add a magma terrain? Perhaps it would be a good idea to add new types of water terrain in the same way there are differents types of ground. For example, a swamp or frozen water terrains could cost more movement points for the boat.

sirironfist said:
If more map layers ever happened, it would be sad, if the limit on map objects couldn't be altered at the same time. Even the way it is now, the amount of objects you can put on a map is barely enough for a 2 layer G map. As long as the limit exists, I don't think we really need more layers, as long as they don't offer something entirely new like heaven.


I didn't know there was an object limit. Anyone knows why is that and if the HoTA team can disallow it somehow?

weilan said:
- sometimes there is light, sometimes everything is so pitch black that even torches, lanterns or magic can't light up the area


I can see it as a permanent clover of darkness over the whole layer. Certainly, it would be an interesting new mechanic.

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planetavril
planetavril


Famous Hero
posted June 16, 2020 06:06 PM

an underground city on a white limestone soil with stalactites and stalagmites, such as creatures in formation, baneling, wendigo, witches / evil fairies (baba yaga), soil worm, limestone rock creature (7 level), banshee

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Legendary Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted June 16, 2020 09:45 PM

UntalentedHero said:
That's something that I have always thought about: adding a lava/magma terrain that functions similar to water. Actually, I think that it would work even without adding any special water objects, working only as decoration to the underground maps.

Furthermore, maybe it would be interesting to see a "Fire Walk" spell to cross the lava, and a "Traverse Earth" to cross thorugh the rock that separates underground tunnels.

On the other hand, why just add a magma terrain? Perhaps it would be a good idea to add new types of water terrain in the same way there are differents types of ground. For example, a swamp or frozen water terrains could cost more movement points for the boat.
Ooooo I really like these ideas. The Fire Walk and Traverse Earth are really cool ideas and I love them.

Same with the new water terrains. That is a really cool idea. Like northern waters filled with ice floes and icebergs, tropical waters that are shallow and crystal clear, filled with coral reefs. Lots of ideas.
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Kupferdachrinn
Kupferdachrinn

Tavern Dweller
posted June 16, 2020 11:43 PM

improving the Interface / Gameplay

Dear all,

Here are some suggestions for an improved game play:
First, thanks to the HotA team for all the work you did!

1.
Simultaneous turns are awesome. However, they tend to get interrupted. I think this happens whenever two different players try to access something only one player can, like picking up the same resource on the adventure map. When not doing the simultaneous turns, you can see the other player move more or less live. Could this be integrated into the simultaneous turns for multiple players?
This way, allied players could work together even better. They could e.g. meet in the middle of their turns, exchange creatures, one hero goes to fight, brings the remaining creatures back to his/her ally player and then that player can use them in the same turn again to walk somewhere else. Also, exploration would be shared and nobody would try again to pick up a resource that is already picked up or explore a region that is already explored. I think this would improve gameplay a lot. Thank you for your consideration.

2.
When a campaign finished, it shows a few statistics like points, total days etc. It would be nice to also see e.g.:
- Total HP of all creatures controlled by a player over time. This would give an idea of how dynamic the game was.
- Current gold and resources over time. This shows how a player increased their income.
- Total experience of (main/highest level) hero.
- Cumulative number of fights. Shows who was active and conquered the world and who sat at home.
- Number of Artifacts. A star appears if somebody assembles a combination artifact.
- Number/percentage of explored tiles
- Number of Cities, maybe even types
- Number/percentage of buildings built
I think you get the point. This information could even get displayed during the game in a Thieves Guild, or for a (small) price at a tavern. It would allow to make more strategic decisions, based on what the opponent does. Generally, you play for quite a long time without meeting an opponent. This would allow to adapt your own strategy better to opponents and lets you plan ahead. Isn't Heroes a strategy game and wouldn't this make it more strategic = better? You have twice as many HP under your control as your opponent? Go search for your opponent. The opponent has more HP under his/her control but no artifacts or experience? He/She is sitting at home. Conquer the map and claim those artifacts first!

3.
Show movement points in the wide-and-not-very-tall field at the bottom (I hope you know which one I mean). If you hover your mouse over something, it shows you what that something does and if you visited it before. What about also showing the remaining movement points your hero would have left if you moved there? This would allow some better planning, and reveal e.g. how much sand really slows you down.
And now, to take this one step further, I suggest a SHIFT-key functionality. So, your hero plans to go to tile A, then you SHIFT click onto tile B and the movement will be shown as traveling to A and then B. Then you know if your hero can visit both in this turn.
Example where this is useful: On day 7 your hero with the Arms of Legion is in your city and the windmill is just outside, not visited yet. Can the hero make it to the windmill and back in this turn? Find out using SHIFT-cueing!
It would also allow to find out easily if traveling to a town portal and then teleporting home is faster to get home than just walking.
The movement points could also be displayed on the adventure map instead. On every tile that your hero would travel, there is the little green arrow. Maybe right next to that arrow could be a number which is the remaining movement points.

4. (Minor Suggestion)
Maybe that's only me, but here it is: When learning a spell in a Shrine on land or water on the adventure map, only its name gets displayed in the bottom right hand corner in that field. It would be nice to also see the picture of the spell.

(5. The game crashes sometimes repeatedly when opening a lobby in the Online Lobby. Maybe there is a fix.)

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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted June 17, 2020 12:34 AM
Edited by P4R4D0X0N at 00:35, 17 Jun 2020.

Mighty_Jeddite said:
With this in mind... Could you simply make another underground layer?
You could switch the Overworld/Underworld toggle into a multi-toggle cycle thing. Also you could add the ability to possibly right click to show all layers.
FirePaladin said:
@Aciel
It wasn't my idea to begin with.
I think a secondary layer for anything like an underground or another surface could work (in case the map author needs it).


Already suggested that ~4 years ago...

P4R4D0X0N said:
-as for new areas: I really love the spheres and timebubbles, maybe up to 5 layers for a map: "sky" (always day, with floating islands between clouds and stuff), normal overworld (day/nightswitch), underworld (always night), "deep sea" you can enter in a submarine or special boat and "special" you can determine on your own, a planet floating in space, fairy globules you enter with a dimensional gate, small rifts into time and space with a undefined outcome. I also love Freds small floating islands in the sky you can only enter by portal object on map or "dimension door" or "fly".


But I'd still like the idea... fred79 also painted some islands floating in the sky or more or less copied and rescaled the stuff to fit in homm3. Somewhere else I also described a "deep sea" layer... would fit to fangarms and other stuff, maybe even a town...

In case of lore it completely fits in... see "CLOUDS of Xeen" and "Darkside of Xeen" both worlds are connected over sky planes and teleport pyramids. As for the programming i don't really know, but I guess it should be doable just as a feeling...

LordInsane said:
I can see the possibility of maps for which three layers would be useful - for example, a remake of the Heroes 2 Clouds of Xeen map could use the underground layer for the Darkside of Xeen and a sky layer for the Clouds of Xeen and the Skyroads (or perhaps more simply the Clouds of Xeen and have the underground layer fill the same role as in Heroes 3's The Mandate of Heaven map* - representing dungeons).


exactly!

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted June 17, 2020 12:45 AM
Edited by FirePaladin at 00:49, 17 Jun 2020.

Oh, I got the idea from Discord, tbh. I would have credited the one who came up with it, if it wasn't just a mention of "someone said" or smt among these line.

Well, yes, with the right people to code that, it would be possible. Oh, that undersea layer is interesting as well. It reminds me of X-Com Terror from the Deep. Nice and somewhat creepy game, but in a good way (not any overboard violence or blood, just the music, atmosphere of the game, etc.).
____________
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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted June 17, 2020 09:45 PM

Hello and welcome to the forums!

Kupferdachrinn said:


1.
Simultaneous turns are awesome. However, they tend to get interrupted. I think this happens whenever two different players try to access something only one player can, like picking up the same resource on the adventure map. When not doing the simultaneous turns, you can see the other player move more or less live. Could this be integrated into the simultaneous turns for multiple players?


I'm not expert in any kind, but that sounds pretty difficult, if not impossible to code into the game.

2.
When a campaign finished, it shows a few statistics like points, total days etc. It would be nice to also see e.g.:
- Total HP of all creatures controlled by a player over time. This would give an idea of how dynamic the game was.
- Current gold and resources over time. This shows how a player increased their income.
- Total experience of (main/highest level) hero.
- Cumulative number of fights. Shows who was active and conquered the world and who sat at home.
- Number of Artifacts. A star appears if somebody assembles a combination artifact.
- Number/percentage of explored tiles
- Number of Cities, maybe even types
- Number/percentage of buildings built
I think you get the point. This information could even get displayed during the game in a Thieves Guild, or for a (small) price at a tavern. It would allow to make more strategic decisions, based on what the opponent does. Generally, you play for quite a long time without meeting an opponent. This would allow to adapt your own strategy better to opponents and lets you plan ahead. Isn't Heroes a strategy game and wouldn't this make it more strategic = better? You have twice as many HP under your control as your opponent? Go search for your opponent. The opponent has more HP under his/her control but no artifacts or experience? He/She is sitting at home. Conquer the map and claim those artifacts first!


More info at the end of the game sure wouldn't hurt, it could be kinda nice to see all the stats and perhaps some of the stats might be more desirable for people that tend to play the same map over and over again. However, providing all that info during the game would be bit unnecessary. It turns out that the Thieves guild already provides a lot of info, but still some pieces are under fog of war. To some extend it could be argued that more info could somewhat destroy the surprise element.

3.
Show movement points in the wide-and-not-very-tall field at the bottom (I hope you know which one I mean). If you hover your mouse over something, it shows you what that something does and if you visited it before. What about also showing the remaining movement points your hero would have left if you moved there? This would allow some better planning, and reveal e.g. how much sand really slows you down.
And now, to take this one step further, I suggest a SHIFT-key functionality. So, your hero plans to go to tile A, then you SHIFT click onto tile B and the movement will be shown as traveling to A and then B. Then you know if your hero can visit both in this turn.


Well, the queing cannot be done, but other than that part, your suggestion is already in the game. You can see the hero's movement points when hovering over him/her. If you have your hero selected, hover over any tile and press alt in order to see how much movement it will cost for hero to move there. While the queing cannot be done, you can also press the mouse wheel button and bring a grid, so it far more easier to count every tile.

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted June 18, 2020 10:18 PM

I can't recall a deep sea precedent in MM, though I might be forgetting something, but there certainly have been undersea levels (and there have been a submarine)... although one of them in an area HOTA has already been to in the campaigns and represented by ample use of Lucid Pools and plain old water.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted June 19, 2020 07:27 AM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 10:06, 19 Jun 2020.

All creature banks have 4 possible fights, except Churchyard which only has 1.
I think it would be more interesting if churchyard also had 4 possibilities, with 4 different rewards.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted June 19, 2020 11:16 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 12:15, 19 Jun 2020.

I on opposing, would like to see more banks with original fights that could always be preestimated. Maybe even big stuff like X Azures and X Faerie.

For instance, 1 single stack of Faerie Dragons on the top of a mountain. Melee units can't reach it. Power of the stack is enough to make you need an amount of fire power around 50 Titans, 0,0,  no archery to be made within reasonable losses but the reward would be priceless, like: shrine with a spell, always Fly or DD.
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The only reason i argue with you people is because i don't want the bullsnow you all spout to be so easily spread to the impressionable without another sane voice challenging you.  -  Fred79

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UntalentedHero
UntalentedHero

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2020 02:40 PM
Edited by UntalentedHero at 14:41, 19 Jun 2020.

What I would like to see implemented in Heroes 3 is a classic adventure map structure which appeared in the first two installaments of the series: The Daemon Cave (https://mightandmagic.fandom.com/wiki/Daemon_cave).

Maybe it could be implemented as it was in the original games (a text event) or maybe it could be just a new creature bank where the player fights against devils and arch devils.




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Kupferdachrinn
Kupferdachrinn

Tavern Dweller
posted June 19, 2020 04:00 PM

Hourglass said:
Hello and welcome to the forums!

Well, the queing cannot be done, but other than that part, your suggestion is already in the game. You can see the hero's movement points when hovering over him/her. If you have your hero selected, hover over any tile and press alt in order to see how much movement it will cost for hero to move there. While the queing cannot be done, you can also press the mouse wheel button and bring a grid, so it far more easier to count every tile.


Thanks for the info! I never knew this!
Also, thanks for your comments. I still think more statistical info during/after the game would be nice, but I can see how it changes the game a bit.

Another idea I had was: Is it possible to watch fights of allies? So, when they fight, you can join as a spectator and just see how it goes. In case you have time over in your simultaneous turns.

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wojtulace
wojtulace

Tavern Dweller
posted June 20, 2020 02:04 PM

Increase damage spells scaling into lategame.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted June 20, 2020 07:22 PM

wojtulace said:
Increase damage spells scaling into lategame.


Scaling in games usually backfires .. from personal experience.

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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted June 20, 2020 08:08 PM

IMO spells scale well enough, unless you count those silly god mode maps many of you guys seem to like where you get like 5000000 archangels and stuff.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted June 21, 2020 03:16 PM

I'd much rather see the HoTA team rebalance spelsl in general and making each magic school equally viable, and especially spells that rarely get used. I know this has been discussed a lot before, but I think that making all spells more viable, not just the ones that damage your opponent or slow/blind them, it will really make the game more interesting.

Part of that is regarding how Might heroes are usually better than Magic heroes.

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UntalentedHero
UntalentedHero

Tavern Dweller
posted June 23, 2020 12:24 AM

Speaking about balancing, maybe I'm missing something, but don't you think that some buildings that give bonuses when defending against sieges are pretty useless with high hero levels? I'm thinking on the Blood Obelisk and Glyphs of Fear of Fortress, which gives +2 Attack and +2 Defense respectively, or Inferno's Brimstone Clouds, which grants +2 Spell Power. From my standpoint, the bonuses they give are ineffective and I highly doubt that they tip the balance in any battle. So maybe it could be a good idea to change the effect of that buildings so instead of giving an unalterable +2 to an Attibute, they give a 20% bonus, so it scales with the hero's primary skills.

Well, that's my two cents. What do you think?

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted June 23, 2020 10:25 AM

UntalentedHero said:
Speaking about balancing, maybe I'm missing something, but don't you think that some buildings that give bonuses when defending against sieges are pretty useless with high hero levels? I'm thinking on the Blood Obelisk and Glyphs of Fear of Fortress, which gives +2 Attack and +2 Defense respectively, or Inferno's Brimstone Clouds, which grants +2 Spell Power. From my standpoint, the bonuses they give are ineffective and I highly doubt that they tip the balance in any battle. So maybe it could be a good idea to change the effect of that buildings so instead of giving an unalterable +2 to an Attibute, they give a 20% bonus, so it scales with the hero's primary skills.

Well, that's my two cents. What do you think?


That does sound like a better solution, because currently it only scales OK for low level characters, which in a way implies that the game should be played as a rush type of game, which I find to be a paradox with the nature of the game.

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