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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 149 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 ... 145 146 147 148 149 · «PREV / NEXT»
Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted June 12, 2020 11:13 PM

They could use that "air magic" terrain to simulate the sky, maybe with some slight fast retouches.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted June 12, 2020 11:16 PM

Romanov77 said:
They could use that "air magic" terrain to simulate the sky, maybe with some slight fast retouches.


That's what I thought too, if a cloud layer or smt was to be added.
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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted June 13, 2020 02:46 AM

I can see the possibility of maps for which three layers would be useful - for example, a remake of the Heroes 2 Clouds of Xeen map could use the underground layer for the Darkside of Xeen and a sky layer for the Clouds of Xeen and the Skyroads (or perhaps more simply the Clouds of Xeen and have the underground layer fill the same role as in Heroes 3's The Mandate of Heaven map* - representing dungeons). But it does seem to be a likely candidate of a lot of work for not all that much gain.

*Which is a candidate for remaking in itself given that HOTA has added larger map sizes, the Wasteland terrain and Sea Serpents, while Armageddon's Blade provided Rogues, but of course that is more the domain of map makers than the HOTA team itself.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted June 13, 2020 05:22 PM

I missed the part about the proposed idea for flying pieces of land, but I don't see how this will enrich the game in any way, to me it seems like what flying is in most MMORPGs - a gimmick that exists to attract players, because it's cool.

I think the things that can expand the game the most are new secondary skills, spells and artifacts. If there is a focus on adding like 5-6 new secondary skills that are very likely to appear when you level up, it can really change how the game is played, especially some skill that's like the opposite of Interference - beneficial for Magic heroes against Might heroes, like something that lowers their resistance or whatever.

Another interesting skill would be something like Artifact Lore or whatever that boosts the effects of artifacts further, which can even make starting artifacts useful and enticing people to use the start with an artifact bonus at the beginning of the game.

Another could be something in the same sense of Scholar, which makes non-primary heroes more useful that just using them to transport army, scout and collect resources.

If terrain is still such a hot topic, then maybe existing terrains can gain new properties that further affects the flow of the game and forces players to make more strategic decisions.

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Mighty_Jeddite
Mighty_Jeddite

Tavern Dweller
Using Armageddon...
posted June 14, 2020 05:57 AM

weilan said:
especially some skill that's like the opposite of Interference - beneficial for Magic heroes against Might heroes, like something that lowers their resistance or whatever.



There already is a resistance skill, which is the Magic counter if I remember correctly. And secondly the real point of the discussion hadn't been about flying, which the game already has in several forms simply as ways of moving about the map and avoiding obstacles, but it had been bout adding another layer. Not unlike the subterranean layer, I is simply a different level of the map, with different aesthetics and a more airy appearance for cutting different storyline based settings. I may be completely wrong in my interpretation of your post and I am sorry if that is the case... I am just one to try to lay out the facts the way I see them. And I am relatively new to conveying my thoughts online so it appears I tend to just ramble.
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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. -Albert Einstein

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted June 14, 2020 06:09 AM
Edited by weilan at 06:10, 14 Jun 2020.

Mighty_Jeddite said:
weilan said:
especially some skill that's like the opposite of Interference - beneficial for Magic heroes against Might heroes, like something that lowers their resistance or whatever.



There already is a resistance skill, which is the Magic counter if I remember correctly. And secondly the real point of the discussion hadn't been about flying, which the game already has in several forms simply as ways of moving about the map and avoiding obstacles, but it had been bout adding another layer. Not unlike the subterranean layer, I is simply a different level of the map, with different aesthetics and a more airy appearance for cutting different storyline based settings. I may be completely wrong in my interpretation of your post and I am sorry if that is the case... I am just one to try to lay out the facts the way I see them. And I am relatively new to conveying my thoughts online so it appears I tend to just ramble.


I'm not sure you comprehended anything from my post. Care to re-read it again?

From your response, it feels like you read a few key words here and there and started posting a response.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted June 14, 2020 08:31 AM

Another issue with mutliple layers is making the Subterranean gates actually work correctly.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Famous Hero
Researching Magic
posted June 14, 2020 10:03 AM

MattII said:
Another issue with mutliple layers is making the Subterranean gates actually work correctly.


In Xeen this was solved with towers were you could just climp out when you were at the top  to reach the clouds. Fantastic solution.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted June 14, 2020 11:48 AM

Would be cool to have an upper layer, the map makers obviously don't need it, but some maps would be better lore-wise with a "heaven" being actually in the sky


Any news regarding 1.7 hota guys? Still waiting to play muh mechs.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted June 14, 2020 12:13 PM

RerryR said:
MattII said:
Another issue with mutliple layers is making the Subterranean gates actually work correctly.


In Xeen this was solved with towers were you could just climp out when you were at the top  to reach the clouds. Fantastic solution.
That was when the game was designed like that. HOTA is an after-market mod (a very good one), so they don't have access to the original source code. They're also doing this in their free time, so some things will be just too much.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted June 14, 2020 12:14 PM

Doomforge said:
Would be cool to have an upper layer, the map makers obviously don't need it, but some maps would be better lore-wise with a "heaven" being actually in the sky


Any news regarding 1.7 hota guys? Still waiting to play muh mechs.


That seems kinda... too epic for HoMM3. I think part of the charm of the game is the simplicity of everything - from graphics to units to factions to story.

Also the idea of everyone somehow being able to enter and leave Heaven at will seems weird.

I must say I'm opposed to that idea.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted June 14, 2020 01:30 PM

Some people might not want steampunk creatures and cowboys to always spawn on their maps, btw.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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UntalentedHero
UntalentedHero

Tavern Dweller
posted June 14, 2020 09:17 PM

An honest question: how a multi-layer map would affect gameplay-wise? I see clearly that it would require a lot of effort to implement that but I'm not sure what positive things it would add.

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Zaio-Baio
Zaio-Baio


Promising
Famous Hero
posted June 15, 2020 03:05 AM

Guys i feel like the randomness has too much impact on the game.
In other games if 2 strong players play against each other then they have a close game. In h3(hota) if 2 strong players play then one of them easily rolls over the other 90% of the time. The game gets decided by who gets to snowball harder vs the AI(and who gets the broken spells/artifacts first) and by the time you meet your opponent you have already won or lost the game. I've played about 1k multi games and most of my final fights have been one sided.

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weilan
weilan


Hired Hero
posted June 15, 2020 06:56 AM

Zaio-Baio said:
Guys i feel like the randomness has too much impact on the game.
In other games if 2 strong players play against each other then they have a close game. In h3(hota) if 2 strong players play then one of them easily rolls over the other 90% of the time. The game gets decided by who gets to snowball harder vs the AI(and who gets the broken spells/artifacts first) and by the time you meet your opponent you have already won or lost the game. I've played about 1k multi games and most of my final fights have been one sided.


I think that's the original appeal of HoMM3 - Random Map Generator which provides infinite replay value. In contrast, games like StarCraft or WarCraft 3 don't have that and are more focused on competitive multiplayer rather than single player games.

I don't think the main goal of HoMM3 was to be competitive multiplayer, it's more like an afterthought and it just is there. There is no way to make the game less RNG and more consistent, unless there is developed a separate client for competitive multiplayer, which I don't see happening.

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UntalentedHero
UntalentedHero

Tavern Dweller
posted June 15, 2020 04:47 PM

Well, the only game 100% strategy without randomness that occurs to me is chess. the HoMM saga has always had a high component of randomness. Honestly, I think that's part of the fun of the game.

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Oddball13579
Oddball13579


Legendary Hero
Grandmaster of the Hunt
posted June 15, 2020 07:44 PM

weilan said:
Doomforge said:
Would be cool to have an upper layer, the map makers obviously don't need it, but some maps would be better lore-wise with a "heaven" being actually in the sky


Any news regarding 1.7 hota guys? Still waiting to play muh mechs.


That seems kinda... too epic for HoMM3. I think part of the charm of the game is the simplicity of everything - from graphics to units to factions to story.

Also the idea of everyone somehow being able to enter and leave Heaven at will seems weird.

I must say I'm opposed to that idea.
Considering that "magic" in Heroes is just highly sophisticated technology, and that the Kreegans aren't actually demons but intergalactic invaders, and that Angels aren't angels in the typical sense but highly complex bio-mechanical creations made by the Ancients, having a "heaven" layer and mechs is entirely within the realm of possibility for Heroes.
____________
"Just slide her down a bit farther. I could wear her like a hat." - Gnomes
"I would have needed to dislocate my jaw to fit it inside my hole." - Blizzardboy

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LordInsane
LordInsane


Adventuring Hero
posted June 15, 2020 10:04 PM
Edited by LordInsane at 22:06, 15 Jun 2020.

Going by precedent from the RPGs (even if only the Kreegan nature is properly from there)... Heaven, or rather something Heaven-adjacent, seems out of place for the scale of Heroes. Not out of place for a text visit, but limited and complicated enough to access that traipsing an army around the place isn't fitting. I would defend a sky layer as within the potential scope of Heroes (something like the Skyroads is a lot more Heroes-appropriate than Arslegard), but I rather suspect it would take way too much work to be worth it, if indeed it is even possible in the first place.

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Maurice
Maurice

Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
posted June 16, 2020 12:11 PM

Having multiple layers besides surface and subterranean could make Town Portal less of an issue to have. For instance, having a map with 4 layers at 64x64 is basically the same as having a map of 128x128 - except there are vertical connections, and the opposite map corners arenít as far apart.
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The last Reasonable Steward of Good Game Design and a Responsible Hero of HC. - Verriker

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dj
dj


Promising
Supreme Hero
Always loyal to HC
posted June 16, 2020 12:16 PM

LordInsane said:
but limited and complicated enough to access that traipsing an army around the place isn't fitting.


yeah cuz having 999+ of each level of unit (especially Titans) inside a mere boat is plausible enough ))

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