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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 154 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 ... 150 151 152 153 154 · «PREV / NEXT»
Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 01, 2020 08:45 PM

Oh you mean with spell research?, yeah I don't use that. I think it gives an even bigger advantage to towns like Tower and screws over towns like Stronghold and Fortress.

Glad you like my Ebony Tower idea.

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evildustructor
evildustructor


Adventuring Hero
posted September 02, 2020 01:52 AM

Phoenix4ever said:
Animate Dead can sometimes be a really hard spell to learn, since it's only available in 1 out of 10 (soon 11) towns, so I have an idea for a new map object:
"Shrine of the Dead", where you can learn Death Ripple and Animate Dead. (Animate Dead of course requires Basic Wisdom to learn.)
It could be available for all terrains or perhaps only dirt.
Another idea is to make Animate Dead belong to all magic schools, so it could be learned from any tome of magic.


This would have to be banned from generating on all random maps if it was ever implemented considering necro is currently the #1 faction almost universally on all templates and having to get animate is one of the few obstacles they currently face in many maps

also why would you want to learn those spells if you're not undead in the first place? just for fun?

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 02, 2020 07:27 AM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 07:28, 02 Sep 2020.

Really?, Necro nr. 1?, that is a big surprise. In my map, under my rules, they are currently the town that is doing the worst. (Yes Inferno is doing better than Necro.)
But sure Shrine of the Dead does'nt have to be on every map, but it could be a possibility for map makers.

Well sometimes I am undead and then I want to learn Animate Dead.

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pizdabol
pizdabol


Hired Hero
posted September 14, 2020 11:13 PM
Edited by pizdabol at 23:19, 14 Sep 2020.

Wow, that's the first I've heard about AD being hard to learn to anyone who might actually benefit for it anyway

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RhayadeR
RhayadeR

Tavern Dweller
posted September 18, 2020 04:29 PM

Are the HotA serversdown? Online lobby is offline...
____________

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 18, 2020 06:44 PM

It happens from time to time.
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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NimoStar
NimoStar


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
posted September 21, 2020 07:14 AM
Edited by NimoStar at 07:45, 21 Sep 2020.

I don't think this is "Logical" at all; dwarves still have the same kind of Resistance, as do unicorns,

Almost everything in the game is luck dependent, from damage to morale and luck bonuses. In fact, by adding negative luck, they are Enhancing randomness.

The only logical conclusion is that a main guy at HotA REALLY hates resistance. Maybe one game in their youth got lost to his childhood rival due to resistance triggering or something like that. Or his older brother made hgim cry by using the rampart Resistance specialist, Thorgrim.

In any case, Resistance effect is no more radical than the enemy Black Dragons getting Morale or Luck (Or both!) in a turn and completely trashing your army with their breath attack. Resistance never is quite radical, it's just feel-bad to them coz "waaah muh spell".

Live with it, resistance was a well balanced and useful skill and never OP unlike Logistics, Offense or Armorer (which they have no problem with). Furthermore they keep useless things like Mysticism around mostly unchanged. So both useless and OP skills are ok, as well as even more random skills like Luck and Morale - that don't have a single "counter or not" check but also vary in usefulness according to round they trigger AND creature they trigger with (which are also integrated on events, artifacts, buiildings etc.), and bad morale is much more feel bad...

No, from all random mechanics and useless or OP skills, only resistance isn't OK and a huge chunk of effort is used to erase it, compared to tweaking Eagle Eye values that are a single byte and continue untouched. Eagle Eye is also random, BTW, and nearly completely useless, and there are 7 heroes with that as specialty and 8 with it as starting skill -which also f*cks you over in random hero games- Why didn't they replace THAT with something useful by coding a new skill instead?

So the only explanation is irrational personal bias.
There is another HUGE evidence to the "Thorgrim trauma" theory. Not only did they took Resistance out, but they took Thorgrim out of the game completely. This is basically offensive (but Interference is already a pretty offensive skill, and not as in "Offensive capabilities" but as in "Offensively bad").

If I ever fight a HotA developer I will only use Thorgrim is every game. But they probably will refuse to play the actual game because of being cowardly anti-resistance bigots ; )


Join the campaign! Resistance IS NOT futile!

And by the way Resistance is a completely defensive skill that can be easily bypassed by an intelligent caster. Even against high magic it may be useless. Yes, you read that right.

Resistance only partically protects your creatures from directed damage and curses, but does nothing when the enemy uses his magic to buff his own creatures, or to affect the battlefield.
So against buffs like Prayer, Bless, Hasta, Frenzy, against stuff such as Teleport, and even against field offensive spells like Force Field, Earthquake, Fire Wall, Quicksand, Land Mines, and even the damage-dealing Armageddon, resistance does absolutely nothing.

Even a midly smart caster can thus skip the "oh-so-demolishing" 20% chance of resistance (or 40% with a level 50 Thorgrim, ohhh, scary! pfff), effectively making it 0% just by using the right spells.
Even if you are playing wrong by using direct offense against resistance, even if mass damage and curses are partially resisted (like Mass Slow), they will still affect 80% of the enemy units on average... and random? ZERO random on over half of spells!
So, cry me a river! Restore Resistance now!

____________
https://www.moddb.com/mods/greatest-mod

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 21, 2020 08:41 AM

@NimoStar I basically agree with everything you said in that long post.
I don't play with Interference, but with Resistance, like a true heroes player.
HotA has refused to do anything about truly terrible skills like Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid and Ballistics and instead altered a perfectly fine skill like Resistance, it makes no sense.

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sirironfist
sirironfist


Known Hero
King of the ogres
posted September 22, 2020 09:42 PM
Edited by sirironfist at 21:43, 22 Sep 2020.

I just had a bit of a random idea about town portal:
How about nerfing it by giving it to two magic schools? You'd need both schools on expert to get the full town portal effect.

I don't know if it's technically possible to do that. Magic arrow would be the only spell that uses multiple schools, but mastering multiple schools doesn't improve it.

My idea was to make it a water and earth spell. If you have only one of the two schools on expert, the spell would only allow you to travel to towns of your "native" faction plus maybe a movement penalty. If you have both schools on expert you get the full thing.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Supreme Hero
Undercover modder
posted September 22, 2020 09:45 PM

Someone could implement this in a mod for base H3 or for HotA (or ERA as well).
____________
"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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gatecrasher
gatecrasher


Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2020 02:11 AM

Phoenix4ever said:
@NimoStar I basically agree with everything you said in that long post.
I don't play with Interference, but with Resistance, like a true heroes player.
HotA has refused to do anything about truly terrible skills like Learning, Eagle Eye, First Aid and Ballistics and instead altered a perfectly fine skill like Resistance, it makes no sense.


Ballistics isn't all that terrible but Sorcery is.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted September 26, 2020 06:59 AM

Terrible skills aren't sad. Example of the Ware Opening is an uncommon chess opening for White beginning with the move: 1. a4. I will play 1. a4 against you, argh, you don't know how to answer against 1. a4, when move is too terrible bad, and Black must know an answer. But Norwegian chess world champion Magnus Carlsen played 1. a4 in two times, his stats came 1 win and 1 lose. Why? Over 3000 elo chess computer engine. Now's 1. a4 is the best move. Why? Hidden and deeper strategy. You've never seen. Exampe of primary skills are better than Tome of Earth and Earth skill, and Spellbinder's hat with Air skill beats the Tome of Earth and Earth skill. So primary skills vs Air. IDK, because you/HotA banned Fly, DD. So he/she have force to pick Armorer, Offense, etc and then those EE, First Aid, etc stayed/remained useless. Wrong HotA. H4? No problem against their Tactics, when Academy can develop Combat, Diplomacy, Pathfinding, Order, Death and Life. Because no banned. If hire a Knight, Knight "can't learn" Diplomacy, Pathfinding and Death skill, but strong in Tactics. So HotA should create EE, so player can learn Earth. If without EE, player can't learn Earth, for example. Yes script permit you/HotA Team create strategic way. You can get a idea from ACM, I'm not sure where about MOD or this is ACM.

I forgot you. 1. a4 and Black's the best answer is 1. - d5. So I play 2. Nf3. True chess player reads all chess openings, right? The same H3. So solution is EE, and get a Earth. It's example.
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 26, 2020 07:43 AM

gatecrasher said:

Ballistics isn't all that terrible but Sorcery is.

Maybe for multiplayer, if there are sieges, for singleplayer it's useless. It also does nothing for scouts or town defenders.
Sorcery could also use a small buff, it's 6,67/13,33/20 in my game.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2020 08:33 AM

Phoenix4ever said:

Maybe for multiplayer, if there are sieges, for singleplayer it's useless. It also does nothing for scouts or town defenders.
Sorcery could also use a small buff, it's 6,67/13,33/20 in my game.


In multiplayer only thing you literally want from Ballistics is the ability to cast first during the round. In Single play AI tends to atleast build town defences, and therefore the Catapult can actually have targets, and there are usually quite a number of towns you need to tackle before achieving victory. So for some towns, I don't mind having the Ballistics as a late skill. It's mostly a "atleast it's not eagle eye"-kind of skill, so in general I definetly agree with you. It's a hard skill to balance, I still hope they would combine all 3 warmachine related skills and come up with few fresh ones.

As for Sorcery, it should be 10/20/30, but I think even 10/20/40 is possible. That's really pushing it, but then it would actually be a serious consideration. The sorcery specialist would become real powerhouses, but not necessary top heroes still.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 26, 2020 08:54 AM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 08:57, 26 Sep 2020.

Combining the war machine skills is probably the best solution yeah. At least Ballistics and First Aid, which both suck.
I feel I have posted this lots of times already, but AI always seems to charge out the gate against me, so I never need Ballistics anyway. The only thing it does, is give you the initiative, which I suppose could mean something if you play a slow town like Stronghold or Tower. (Yog and Theodorus.)

As for Sorcery I think it's important not to buff it too much. As you mentioned there are Sorcery specialists, but also the elemental orbs, which adds +50% to a certain element. Combining these things could make offensive spells quite powerful, so Sorcery at +30% might be too much.

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pizdabol
pizdabol


Hired Hero
posted September 26, 2020 10:10 AM
Edited by pizdabol at 10:40, 26 Sep 2020.

sirironfist said:
I just had a bit of a random idea about town portal:
How about nerfing it by giving it to two magic schools? You'd need both schools on expert to get the full town portal effect.

I don't know if it's technically possible to do that. Magic arrow would be the only spell that uses multiple schools, but mastering multiple schools doesn't improve it.

My idea was to make it a water and earth spell. If you have only one of the two schools on expert, the spell would only allow you to travel to towns of your "native" faction plus maybe a movement penalty. If you have both schools on expert you get the full thing.


I was actually thinking about making it (Town Portal) universal like Magic Arrow, so you can use it with any school, you know, to take some strain off of Earth Magic

Speaking of Magic Arrow, I don't think fire imunes should be imune to it as well

Also every spell level should have one universally usefull non overpowered multi colored spell. Magic arrow is just that and making TP multi colored is in sence gonna tune it down a bit by making it more readily available to all (no stress about getting Earth)

1. Arrow
2. Dispel
3. Teleport
4. Portal
5. Dimension

I think this is gonna do some good for Magic School equality. Take some of the worst offenders from Earth and Air and make them universal giving Fire a mass cleance but also in a sence taking it away from Air since you will no longer miss on mass Dispel if you forgo Air (I'm not mentioning Earth, as earth has so much going on for it, slightly buffing it by allowing mass Dispel is probably not a big deal, Water keeps the best cleance).

While Teleport is in my eyes a good candidate for multi coloring, taking it away from Water may seem as a bit of a blow to a school that is already underpreforming, but is not a big deal if you think about it really. Fortress which benefits most still has a tremendous use for the rest of water school, and anyone else (who won't take Water) will benefit only very ocassionaly from expert Teleport, but when he does it's gonna be good.

Finally, TP should only be usable once per day with level decreasing movement cost and Dimension should only be usable twice a day at expert with levels decreasing movement cost as well


??? I'm actually really happy with this concept

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2020 10:44 AM

Phoenix4ever said:

As for Sorcery I think it's important not to buff it too much. As you mentioned there are Sorcery specialists, but also the elemental orbs, which adds +50% to a certain element. Combining these things could make offensive spells quite powerful, so Sorcery at +30% might be too much.


I don't see why you did come up with 20% in your mod, as it's only a tiny bit better than the current situation. I mean Sorcery would now be picked way more often, and would be much more appreciated, if it was so close of being pickable. Ofc, it's your mod, but I just wonder.

The problem that I'm having with sorcery is that you still need mana to cast get anything out of it, and it only really scales well with really powerfull spells. Being able to cast slightly better Lightning bolt isn't exactly a dealbreaker.

You're right that sorcery specialist with right orb could indeed dish nice damage in the ultra late game, but the specialist don't provide you nothing early, unlike heroes that can now be considered good. Therefore, it could probably be alright for them to be "OP", if they're dealing double dmg with Implosion at the extreme late stages in the game.


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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 26, 2020 10:53 AM

Well actually I considered Expert Sorcery could be 25% instead. Then it would be 8,33/16,67/25. I'm not sure about 10/20/30 I think it might be too much, but yeah it mostly matters when it comes to Armageddon, Implosion, Chain Lightning and Meteor Shower.

How do you feel about Resistance? Or do you play with Interference instead? I kinda feel Resistance should be in the same place as Sorcery, so both either 6,67/13,33/20 or 8,33/16,67/25.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted September 26, 2020 12:17 PM

phoenix4ever said:

How do you feel about Resistance? Or do you play with Interference instead? I kinda feel Resistance should be in the same place as Sorcery, so both either 6,67/13,33/20 or 8,33/16,67/25.


I've feeling you most likely do know the answer. Numberwise, I think they're both on spot currently.

As for other skills, my current stand is

Pathfinding: On the top of the current design, it should probably decrease movement cost required when picking up and visiting objects.

Eagle Eye: Completely change the concept (replace the skill)

Learning: Make it something like it's in Homm5, where it provides stat increases, and still gives bonus experience. I kinda liked my concept where basic would give one, advanced two and expert 3 different random primary stats. On top of that, 10/25/50% more experience.

Ballistics/First aid/Artillery: form into one skill, if possible, make two completely new skills to spicy up things.

Luck: Provide luck as normal, but also increase the critical hit damage. (and then replace Melodia with a hero that specializes in Luck istead of Fortune.)

Intelligence: 20/40/60 would more in line with the original desing scaling, while still accomplishing the big nerf in this skill.

Fire and to some extend Water magic= Could be made better with some changes to existing spells, but I'm not going deeper into that for now.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted September 26, 2020 12:44 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 12:48, 26 Sep 2020.

Pathfinding is okay, but there are many things that ruin it, so perhaps it needs a little extra.

Eagle Eye I would just like it to learn spells from creatures and level 5 spells. If it can use them intelligently AI should also cast Remove Obstacle, Fire Wall, Quicksand, Land Mine and Force Field, so you can also learn these spells.

Learning I like the Heroes 5 version, where you get additional stat points and make it backwards compatible, so it does'nt matter if you get it at level 1 or 20.

How would you specialise in Luck, starting with Advanced Luck instead of Basic? If you replace Melodia with another Druid, what spell should he/she start with then?

I agree 100% about Intelligence, it should be 20/40/60 and Mana Vortex should be 60, as it is supposed to be like Expert Intelligence.

Mysticism remove Wizard's Well, Magic Springs and Altar of Mana and this skill will become more useful. (I already did this myself.)

Fire and Water spells I have already improved myself, especially Slayer and the damage spells are quite pathetic in these schools. (Except Armageddon.)

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