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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 165 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 150 ... 161 162 163 164 165 · «PREV / NEXT»
Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted January 30, 2021 05:19 PM

RerryR said:

weilan said:
I don't know why is there even an argument regarding ERA vs HoTA.

There is no need for an argument, ERA and HotA both serve a different purpose.


Yeah if you want an old Ghost back. Only native English users understand ERA jungle vs HotA desert. I think you also understand. Ok depend on selection.

FOR MEME

I'm also agree with a little choice, what I'm always using. Bugs don't matter any more, both developed much better. I remember HotA 1,4 after something a naff (snow) version. Now's ok version. ERA also much better than buger 3,58f. I own a ERA and HotA. Now I kill ERA, because I make maps, when all maps are ready, I start a HotA for updating also maps.  Time is time.
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P4R4D0X0N
P4R4D0X0N


Famous Hero
posted January 31, 2021 09:49 AM

Macron1 said:
Pride is a sin, you know...
The talk is about Hota crew being a totalitarian group which never listens to anyone, and that the ideas ans suggestions on it is a complete waste of time and electricity. And it's a doubtful mod itself, closed and not moddable.


Infact some of my suggestions went live already some years ago, some of them for HD Mod (I wished and stated for Multiplayer and Leaderboard support) others ingame (Optional Witchhut Skills [infact that was wished by a lot of ppl and went live]). May be just random since other ppl my have the same suggestions or the just read it.

Anyway when it comes to BALANCE issues... just forget to post anything, its more likly you'll get a feature release if there is a need for improvement.

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Doomforge
Doomforge


Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
posted January 31, 2021 10:48 AM

WoG/ERA is a modding platform and HotA is a competitive version of the game with fixed rules.

There, you don't have to argue anymore.
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 31, 2021 01:01 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 13:03, 31 Jan 2021.

Fair enough, although ERA isn't even really a complete modding platform for HoMM3 itself, at best half a platform at this moment, no offense.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 31, 2021 03:56 PM

What that ever means, half platform? What is a complete platform?
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 31, 2021 04:24 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 16:27, 31 Jan 2021.

ERA currently does not make the game bow to one's almost every whim. Towns are impossible to add without hardcoding. Heroes the same. Abilities are non-customizable (or hardly customizable) for creatures. Literally, the most requested/wanted/important features are not a thing in ERA. This way, it cannot be called a full actual modding platform at all.

Half platform is what you have here, an incomplete platform unable to perform the most important tasks for an H3 modding platform, in this case. I'm not saying ERA is bad, but it has its fatal flaws.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 31, 2021 04:53 PM

Then in your logic there is no complete modding platform out there, or show me one.

Skyrim creation kit doesn't allow breaking hardcoded mechanics, you can't add a second player or create new hero movements. In Anno 1800 you can't neither add new features, only diversify and add content based on what existing features do. Civilization games modding works in the same way. That's for all I know, as I intensively modded for those games, but if you know a modding platform who can basically do anything, please let me know.

Also : can you add a town in Heroes using Hota? No. Only a few Hota creators can that, probably one or two. That is same for Wog/Era, there are people who can add a town (Slava had it in his projects) but they think it is not worth the work, especially since Hota is out and fulfills that purpose.

FirePaladin said:
Heroes the same. Abilities are non-customizable (or hardly customizable) for creatures.


100% wrong. You can mod Heroes and creatures to do almost anything, except cook your dinner. Hardly customizable - sure, more features you want, more you have to work. But you can, there are already mods out there who show the infinite possibilities.

FirePaladin said:
Literally, the most requested/wanted/important features are not a thing in ERA.


Wrong again. If I read this thread, I see most requested features are about spells balance and making some skills more interesting. In Era you can mod them the way you like.
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 31, 2021 05:26 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 17:49, 31 Jan 2021.

Quote:
Then in your logic there is no complete modding platform out there, or show me one.

Skyrim creation kit doesn't allow breaking hardcoded mechanics, you can't add a second player or create new hero movements. In Anno 1800 you can't neither add new features, only diversify and add content based on what existing features do. Civilization games modding works in the same way. That's for all I know, as I intensively modded for those games, but if you know a modding platform who can basically do anything, please let me know.

Also : can you add a town in Heroes using Hota? No. Only a few Hota creators can that, probably one or two. That is same for Wog/Era, there are people who can add a town (Slava had it in his projects) but they think it is not worth the work, especially since Hota is out and fulfills that purpose.


HotA does not allow for adding towns freely. Dang, many modders have to stick with the unfinished VCMI just so they can showcase their towns. ERA does not allow adding towns easily either, you gotta hardcode a lot of crap and such. And adding new towns is again, the most important feature. HotA wouldn't have been where it is right now if it didn't add a new town, Cove.

Also, how are towns not an existing feature? XD

I do agree that a complete modding platform is an abstract concept, but as long as you can literally create mods/addons with the same type of content as og ones, then that could be a "complete" modding platform. Not that improvements could not be made.

Quote:
100% wrong. You can mod Heroes and creatures to do almost anything, except cook your dinner. Hardly customizable - sure, more features you want, more you have to work. But you can, there are already mods out there who show the infinite possibilities.


"Mod heroes" does not mean adding heroes afaIk. And from what I know, there are problems when trying to play 2 mods which add creatures. Besides, you did not get my point at all. I meant a creature creation system which unlike ERA's, and to a certain extent VCMI, does not suck. Where everything is customizable. I mean, it is in ERA too, but available only if you learn a lot of its hardly understandable and readable code, and then you can't even play your mod together with other creature mods.

About infinite possibilities, please show me town mods for ERA. Except hardcoded MoP, which is not really a mod.

Quote:
Wrong again. If I read this thread, I see most requested features are about spells balance and making some skills more interesting. In Era you can mod them the way you like.


This is a HotA thread lol, the guys already are getting Factory town, why push other town ideas onto HotA team (everyone knowing its current situation, I suppose, including you)? People here are just complaining about imba Earth magic and the such, basically one of the few things which HotA did not "entirely fix", one could say.

No offense at all, but you seem to have split from the community for quite the while. Things changed a lot compared to a few years ago. Oh, and as a finishing note (I did not manage to add this into the whole post before), VCMI would have been a good example of modding platform if it was.... well, a modding platform.

Edit: If people wanted what ERA has (no new towns, spells, etc.) more than what HotA has, they would have been primarily playing ERA instead of HotA.

Edit 2: Perhaps I should have also worded my posts more carefully, simplicity and accessibility is also part of a "complete" modding platform.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 31, 2021 05:56 PM

Well, maybe I split from the modding community but I least I was in. You not.

The flaw in your analysis is that you consider Wog an expansion so you would want it to give you what YOU consider important (for example I don't consider adding towns something important). It is not. It just provides an easy access to almost every mechanic, as a laboratory or a well equipped kitchen. It also comes with the most complete and comprehensible manual I ever saw for a modding platform and that's a good start.

As for coding language being hard to learn, sure. Civilization's Mod Buddy is easy as long as you use XML, but is very limited. Once you want to go deeply, you need Python or C++, and even after being comfortable with WoG ERM, I found them to be very hard. Reward never comes without effort.
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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted January 31, 2021 06:08 PM
Edited by FirePaladin at 18:33, 31 Jan 2021.

ERA is not the whole modding community (I personally joined the modding community in the half of the last year, which isn't necessarily much in terms of timespan, that is), but yeah, I agree about it. I mainly meant the H3 community itself (which is 99% consumers) rather than modders.

You got a point again, yes. I wasn't talking about me regarding towns though, but the H3 (consumer) community (since that's what they're playing and so excited about after all). Also, I never actually mentioned WoG, nor think of it as an expansion.

The coding language part is a sensible subject (<- personal opinion btw). For example, the platform's "internal" code could be harder compared to, for example, the "code" (which would be just an "interface" like VCMI's) used by the modder to implement creatures. Not sure how possible it is to do something similar in ERA at this point though.

Edit: Aha, thanks for solving this confusion.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted January 31, 2021 06:30 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 18:35, 31 Jan 2021.

FirePaladin said:
Also, I never actually mentioned WoG, nor think of it as an expansion.


Bersy took WoG 3.58, the last version of WoG and developed it further, but picked a new name because Sergey Rozhenko (former Wog creator) was already working on 3.59, which finally never came out. Therefore some confusion around. Era is WoG 3.59 now, so when I say WoG, I mean all WoG developments, Era included.

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Grell
Grell

Tavern Dweller
posted February 01, 2021 12:06 AM

Hi everyone.
First post here. I'm big fan of H3 and have read this forum for a while. Never comented anything because english it's not my native language and kinda feel a fish out of the water reading some things here, but have my 2 cents and would like to share some ideas with you guys.

I read a lot of secondary skills and how Eagle Eye it's useless and had an idea for a new one to replace it. A secondary skill to give speed for units in combat, something like:

Basic: +1 speed
Adavanced: +2 speed
Expert: +3 speed

I don't have any idea how the code of the game works, but looking the things that already have been done I think it's possible doing something like this. We have artefacts that give more speed, even a hero with a speciality, so I think it's possible and a secondary skill like this would fit in the game in my opinion and would help creatures like Behemonths and Hydras


Another idea it's for Fist Aid.
Made advanced Fisrt Aid use cure and Expert use Mass Cure.
This could make the game more dynamic and not just Mass slow used for 1 player, Mass Haste for another, Mass slow again followed for a  Mass Haste. Even cure blind and other speels in the end of the turn for a player who invested in this secondary skill.


What you guys think??? Something sounds OP maybe? Anyway, just an idea.


And thanks for tHotA crew for keeping this amazing game alive

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blob2
blob2


Undefeatable Hero
Blob-Ohmos the Second
posted February 01, 2021 08:49 AM
Edited by blob2 at 08:53, 01 Feb 2021.

Grell said:
We have artefacts that give more speed, even a hero with a speciality, so I think it's possible and a secondary skill like this would fit in the game in my opinion and would help creatures like Behemonths and Hydras



I believe it might be too OP. Many strategies in battles are build around the idea of smaller/weaker units having a movement range edge. Lower mov. speed is also usually a counter-balance for units like Behemoths raw strength. A change like this would imo break a lot of game balancing.

Problem in the game is that imo there aren't that many things you can actually add skill-wise. It's not that it has skill trees like Heroes 5 or sth. Or maybe I just didn't see enough interesting ideas, it's not that I browse suggestion threads as I'm more interested in what is actually implemented by the modders themselves.

Or we can go back to Heroes 2 approach in which most units were able to traverse the whole battlefield in 1 turn

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yasmiel
yasmiel


Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
posted February 01, 2021 05:05 PM

I was thinking something along these lines for current "dead" skills:

First Aid (example numbers)
Double Tent HP and add 10% hp to creatures while Tent is alive.
Triple Tent HP and add 15% hp to creatures while tent is alive.
Quadruple Tent HP and add 20% hp to creatures while tent is alive.

Sorcery:
10/20/30% instead of current 5/10/15%

Eagle Eye:
Be able to learn from the enemy - Copy the value of 1/2/3 highest enemy Hero stats while the combat lasts (only considering ones where enemy stat is higher than player Hero)

Ballistics
In addition to current effect, adds +1/2/3 speed during siege combats.

Learning
15/30/45% instead of 5/10/15%. Each time Learning is selected for a skillup provide 1 additional skill pick to the hero. (essentially making it free skillup at costs of losing 1 skill slot for the endgame)

Numbers provided are just example ones.
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Grell
Grell

Tavern Dweller
posted February 01, 2021 05:42 PM

blob2 said:
I believe it might be too OP. Many strategies in battles are build around the idea of smaller/weaker units having a movement range edge. Lower mov. speed is also usually a counter-balance for units like Behemoths raw strength. A change like this would imo break a lot of game balancing.

Or we can go back to Heroes 2 approach in which most units were able to traverse the whole battlefield in 1 turn


Well, We always had Tactics that could ignore half of the battlefield. Anc. Behemonths with +6 speed (+3 of this hypothetic skill and +3 of the artifacts) would speed tie with Black Dragons. Some of the strong and more used creatures are fast too (Archangels, Dragons or Dread Knghit and Efreets). This could help make some creatures more viable. Against the wild creatures things wouldn't change anything, They never use bonus of secondary skill.

And it's a secondary skill. The players would need chase this skill to have this bonus. IMO would be cool have something like this.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 03, 2021 08:52 AM

How about making Leena an Estates specialist, instead of starting with Estates + 350 gold specialty?

Elmore could have Navigation and Offense instead of Advanced Navigation.

This way they will probably be acceptable, instead of OP heroes.

I don't really agree with the big Estates buff either.

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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Known Hero
posted February 03, 2021 11:40 AM
Edited by Pollo2002 at 11:54, 03 Feb 2021.

FirePaladin said:
.

Edit: If people wanted what ERA has (no new towns, spells, etc.) more than what HotA has, they would have been primarily playing ERA instead of HotA.




Maybe I'm an outlier but the reason i play hota over era, is MAINLY simultaneous turn. Add to that the wonderful job they did in supporting online multiplier, But id online multiplayer is NOT your thing, then ERA is vastly superior.

For me tough a good platform for online multiplayer that work s great, lets you set rules and have rank is way more important than anything.
And the big thing of all that is simultaneous turns.

Regardless if this is the reason of other people, don't be so sure that is the extra town what makes Hota more popular.

Remove and simultaneous turns and online multiplayer in general and many people including me would have not even touched it.

Give era simultaneous turns and a good multiplayer lobby with all hota features and im changing ships instantly.

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RerryR
RerryR


Promising
Supreme Hero
Researching Magic
posted February 03, 2021 11:56 AM
Edited by RerryR at 12:06, 03 Feb 2021.

Both the online lobby and the sim turns must be credited to HD Mod made by baratorch. Hota has in principle nothing to do with it (I am sure they correspond a lot nonetheless). But still, your statement is true, the whole multiplayer part works very well in HotA and makes the experience to play an MP game very enjoyable.
In the recent month, the online lobby was also made available for ERA, but due to the vastly different scripts and mods, it is much harder to set up a stable MP game with ERA. And sim turns are not working.


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Pollo2002
Pollo2002


Known Hero
posted February 03, 2021 01:40 PM

Ive played 1v1 era games np in the past. Simultaneous turns is the big thing tough.

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The_Green_Drag
The_Green_Drag


Supreme Hero
posted February 10, 2021 03:03 AM

Do we know which War machine(s) the Factory town is gonna have?

I'm curious cause I feel like it would be ammo cart cause of the guns, which I'd imagine don't have many total shots. But with the cannon now being a thing, would that make more sense? Maybe access to both since it's suppose to be a stronger town anyways?

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