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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions
Thread: [Official Thread] HoMM 3: Horn of the Abyss - Ideas and Suggestions This Popular Thread is 165 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 30 60 90 120 150 ... 161 162 163 164 165 · «PREV / NEXT»
FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted February 11, 2021 06:50 PM

Fortress is on par with Inferno due to one of the worst terrains in the game.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 11, 2021 06:54 PM

FirePaladin said:
Fortress is on par with Inferno due to one of the worst terrains in the game.


Not in MP, and in single player there's really nothing wrong with it either. It's not the most flashiest town, and you need to find another town to build up the mage guild, but it shouldn't be a problem. Inferno on the other hand is pretty much never good.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted February 11, 2021 07:01 PM

Inferno has Magog powerstack. You only need to be smart with it. Alex the Magician, a Youtuber, has a few examples of how good Magogs are.

Besides, I meant PvP. Fortress is nearly doomed if you mess up the swamp chaining.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 11, 2021 07:16 PM
Edited by Hourglass at 19:17, 11 Feb 2021.

FirePaladin said:
Inferno has Magog powerstack. You only need to be smart with it. Alex the Magician, a Youtuber, has a few examples of how good Magogs are.

Besides, I meant PvP. Fortress is nearly doomed if you mess up the swamp chaining.


Isn't this the very same Alex who (rightfully) ranked fortress as an average town, and Inferno dead last?

Magogs are super good units, but Fortress can also kickstart their game by using Gnoll Marauders. Swamp sure sucks, but then again, Fortress can get their hands on speed 9 unit in the very first day, which makes their heroes move faster than any other faction is capable of doing. Fortress also gets Tazar, who is one the most powerful heroes in the game.

Fortress isn't the best, but it has some things going for it, unlike Inferno.

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FirePaladin
FirePaladin


Legendary Hero
Undorcover modder
posted February 11, 2021 07:19 PM

Sorry, I'm still angry at Fortress for messing up one of my matches due to terrain penalty and having one of the worst level 7s in PvP.
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"Goblins use pistols because a shotgun recoil would kick them off the ground flying."

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sd0
sd0

Tavern Dweller
posted February 11, 2021 10:20 PM

Hourglass said:
sd0 said:


It seems to me that the whole multiplayer/advanced gameplay is based on a "buggy" feature but I might be missing a point here ^, so please if someone can explain me why the developers wanted this feature of retrieve how it is I would appreciate it.

Well, it's not exactly buggy or glitchy or anything like that. The method would be used even if the movement couldn't be spared. Sure, the developers maybe didn't intend it to be used in this scale, but then again, I'm not convinced that something like spamming slow was intentionally developed to be a dominating strategy. It's really just players trying to play with the best of their ability.  


Sure, I mean the mechanics IS interesting and it makes the game faster(which is matter of taste and I do not argue about taste), but if you want to have that feature, why to "mask" it under "retrieve"? Why you can not "retrieve" for this purposes without actually fighting someone, thus creating a new button "run to the town like hell"? Then it would actually make sense, right? .

Guys try to look at it from outside perspective - a lot of decent people watching how the actual multiplayer match is being played, that could actually become great players, will just pass playing on higher level because they will be forced to "cheat"(abuse the retrieve). Not cool imo.
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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 11, 2021 11:40 PM
Edited by Phoenix4ever at 23:41, 11 Feb 2021.

A sea version of University. (I do not like Seafaring Academy.)

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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted February 12, 2021 09:06 PM

I can live with accumulating dwellings, but not when they do this as neutrals.
At least, this shouldn't defienetely apply for lv.7 dwellings, because each one of those is a potential game breaking powerstack available for hire.

I think that the stack available for hire should also reset evertime the dwelling changes hand.

I am baffled that none ever noticed such big imbalance, too much focus on multiplayer, I guess.

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Phoenix4ever
Phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 12, 2021 10:39 PM

I personally have nothing against this, if anything it makes the game more interesting.
Of course if one player starts with 3 level 7 dwellings near his starting town and the other get nothing, it could become a huge imbalance, but this is still the case if they did'nt accumulate.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 13, 2021 10:22 AM
Edited by Hourglass at 10:23, 13 Feb 2021.

sd0 said:

Guys try to look at it from outside perspective - a lot of decent people watching how the actual multiplayer match is being played, that could actually become great players, will just pass playing on higher level because they will be forced to "cheat"(abuse the retrieve). Not cool imo.


Well, if you're talking about multiplayer especially, then one must realize that both players can take advantage of the feature, so it's quite hard for me to see it as "cheating."

If we're looking this from "exploiting" POV, then it kinda starts to sound more reasonable. But really, using methods like that are basically second nature for any homm3 player. For example, one fast unit is capable of kiting slower enemies endlessly and allowing your shooters to rain fire on enemies, allowing you to win such stupid battles without any losses. And if you think about the most popular single player maps, most of them are build on the idea of player using a "clever" trick to beat the helpless AI.

Using things like that are basically the bread and butter of this game, and there's no reason of feeling bad when using them.

Romanov77 said:

I read that even when they stay neutral, they accumulate 1 creature per week. Does this means that finding a unclaimed Dragon Cave during late game is basically hitting jackpot as it will have dozens of Dragons ready to be hired?


Where did you read this?

The neutral dwellings are not accumulating, the only way these kinds of dwellings would have more creatures in them is that a player had that same dwelling captured and let it accumulate over time, and didn't grab the creatures inside. Then, that player should have been eliminated (and thus, the ownership of the dwelling would turn to neutral) and you manage to find that dwelling during the very same week. Because in the start of the next week, the dwelling should only give the base amount again, and as long as it remains neutral, it will not accumulate any creatures.

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Romanov77
Romanov77


Known Hero
posted February 13, 2021 07:26 PM

I read it in the HOTA documentation changelog, maybe it was outdated info or a bad translation.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 13, 2021 07:49 PM

Romanov77 said:
I read it in the HOTA documentation changelog, maybe it was outdated info or a bad translation.


Interesting, it really says so in the changelog, but it really doesn't seem to work like that, I did some tests and tried to search if there was a way to turn on/off such thing. Maybe it's indeed outdated information.

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artu
artu


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
posted February 15, 2021 02:39 AM
Edited by artu at 05:53, 15 Feb 2021.

I’ve been checking out HotA and it’s really done well. Everything seems really neat. I know that unlike WoG, HotA developers have a “take it or leave it” attitude towards the changes they bring, yet with each upgrade, the changes stack up and more people are in a dilemma: On one hand, we love and want the new content  implemented so well, yet as HotA drifts further away from original mechanics, it becomes harder to fully embrace it. I know that they have multiplayer in mind and it is understandable trying to make multiplayer fair. But Heroes 3 is not chess, trying to even out everything takes away from the game. Luck and randomness, the imperfections in balance have a lot to do with the replayability of the game. In single player, you can play your favorite maps again and again because which skills you ended up with, your starting conditions, each step of the game is designed in such a way, that even if you pick the ideal hero, things can go unexpectedly rough. We already have a Tournament Rules option and instead of modifying single player experience too, some of the changes would be better if they were only implemented as tournament rules.

1- Heroes always starting with 3 units and second dwelling always built on start up if you have fort: This is one of those features that dulls out the luck feature in the game. The joy of having the second dwelling already built is gone because now it is taken for granted. You even used to think through about restarting when you had no second dwelling but a good artifact or good heroes in tavern. Coming across all three was like rolling a double six on dice on the first day. Please bring this feature back to Single Player.

2- Optional Witch Huts and Scholars: This would be one thing if it was optional like in WoG, once again, we have a feature, that through luck and randomness, adds spice and replayability to the game. The adrenaline of hoping for the ideal secondary skills just before leveling up, trying to find and reach a University or a Conflux before leveling up to get Offense or Earth Magic... All of these are gone. I know it is quite annoying when your main hero is stuck between having to choose Mysticism or Learning but the better solution to this would have been to introduce a building such as WoG’s Market of Time that enables you to get rid of unwanted skills AFTER you took them. This way, you can have the best of both worlds; by making getting rid of the skill expensive or guarding  Market of Time with strong monsters or making it rare, it would still be an adrenaline rush waiting for the right skills, yet your hero wouldnt be inevitably ruined if crappy skills pop out of the bag either. Making secondary skills rejectable completely changes the game though and it certainly means that now, advancing a hero is a repetitively lineer experience from now on.

3- I think everyone was on board about nerfing down necromancy, even nerfing Conflux a little but Logistics and Intelligence? I have never heard anyone go “damn that Intelligence skill is so breaking the game!” First Aid was already a skill far from ideal and now Expert First Aid dont fully recover? Yes, it is an exploitable mecnanic under exceptional circumstances but so many things are exploitable like that and once again, trying to even out all those things takes away from the game. It’s one thing to buff crappy skills, but nerfing out the good ones doesnt bring the right kind of balance to the game, it feels dull. Heroes 3 was very unbalanced compared to its sequels yet it outlasted all of them. Because such features are so much fun to play with.

4- Havent try this yet but I read Dimension Door is nerfed too, which would be okay as a tournament rule but in single player, it was really fun and practical especially ih XXL maps where going places becomes like pilgrimage after a while. (Nerfing Logistics doesnt help with that either.) It’s also weird that Expert Air Magic doesnt improve one of the best air spells.

5- Creatures accumulating in dwellings is a good idea but I think it should be applied moderately, like in 3 weeks, the dwelling becomes full an stops to accumulate.

Last but not least, I salute the developers for all their wonderful hard work.
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they can change, but these changes are usually more nuanced compared to the madness of youth. blizzardboy

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 15, 2021 09:49 AM

@artu

The Dimension door nerf is only present if you use the tournament rules. Technically, it's not exactly a Hota change, but rather part of the HD mod. (you can turn the rule on even when playing SoD)

[Dimension Door spell:

On all templates (except XL+U size) may be used by all heroes no more than once a day;
on XL+U size templates it can be use by any hero 2 times per day on Expert Air Magic and once otherwise.]

Also, First Aid is completely unchanged in Hota, the mechanic of not fully healing was (unfortunately) part of SoD as well.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted February 17, 2021 07:34 AM

@artu, the witch-hut thing got solved quite a while back.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 21, 2021 12:11 PM

It's quite weird how HotA decided to cut Intelligence in half, but left Mana Vortex, Magic Springs and Altar of Mana alone.
All of them should have been nerfed, but maybe 60% would have been enough.

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Ghost
Ghost


Legendary Hero
Therefore I am
posted February 21, 2021 01:04 PM

Yeah no usually of the object what mapmaker can give many or in general skill always has use. Mana system has the closest H4 system. When they fixed Mysticism. In H4 GM skill you take 10 back in a day, and other Mana gives +25 bonus. I've played thousands of Mana against 500k of Efreets, for example. Now's H3 has well-timed amount, I think so. And they are "pro", because they can test a HotA engine or other pro players had resume and restore to HotA, what's general, HotA served players. I think you're minor or a few of people think 60%. HotA can't fix them. HotA developed end with, no taking a idea or thoughts but bottom.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 21, 2021 01:56 PM
Edited by phoenix4ever at 13:59, 21 Feb 2021.

Okay perhaps Intelligence is fine at 50%, but why is Mana Vortex still 100% then?!
They should both be 50/50 or 60/60, if we don't want to nerf Dungeon too much, 60/60 probably makes most sense.

Magic Springs and Altar of Mana I ban currently, they are too powerful.

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Hourglass
Hourglass


Famous Hero
posted February 21, 2021 02:44 PM

phoenix4ever said:
Okay perhaps Intelligence is fine at 50%, but why is Mana Vortex still 100% then?!



Don't forget that back in old days, it was possible to have normal mana, then double it with intelligence, and finally double that amount with Mana vortex. Now, because intelligence is nerfed, the Vortex isn't producing that high amounts of mana either. So, there's an indirect nerf.

I do agree that the nerf should have been 20/40/60 on intelligence. Currently, the basic is "giving more %" than the advanced, kinda breaking the classic approach on skill progression.

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phoenix4ever
phoenix4ever


Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
posted February 21, 2021 02:56 PM

Yes I know, but they made a drastic nerf to Intelligence, but left Mana Vortex untouched, that is not fair.

Yeah the progression is another thing.
I think all skills should always progress in a linear fashion, so if it is 50 at Expert it should be 16,67/33,33/50 or 17/33/50 if you like rounded numbers more.
If 60 at Expert it should be 20/40/60 which are all nice round numbers.
Of course Mana Vortex should also be 50 or 60 then.

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