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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2022 12:56 PM |
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Stevie said:
If that review is even half-accurate, it's a problem. It took 5 years to get this game released, and even then in early access. It wouldn't be very funny if it were yet another shallow attempt at riding the Heroes of Might & Magic nostalgia wave.
Though as it looks right now, the majority of reviews are positive. And graphically it does look appealing. The core gameplay loop is what concerns me. I'll just wait and see for now, cautiously observing from the sidelines how it unfolds. It might be too early to judge.
It's a question of what you expect. And what you think was great and what wasn't.
Take for example the absence of a "wait" command. In fact, it's not absent, it's just a special ability of some units and not a general feature. Many people complain about that, but for me it's perfect. I've never been fond of waiting in HoMM 3 since this was another severe disadvantage for the AI, and I think it's well-known that in my opinion HoMM 2 was a better game in many (but not all) respects.
In my opinion the game isn't going from HoMM 3, it's going from Homm 2. Which should tell you all you need to know.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2022 08:00 PM |
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Yea, it became increasingly clear that that's the angle they took after I started playing the game myself. Right now I am actually shocked, SHOCKED, at how little attention this game is receiving. It is, by far, the closest thing to the spirit of HoMaM of old, especially of Heroes 2. Admittedly, I haven't played Heroes 2 (the only one in the franchise), but I'm not completely oblivious to it. I have at least some surface-level knowledge about it.
Also, since I haven't gone too in-depth with Song of Conquest yet, I'll limit myself to praising the atmosphere, and by that I mean visuals mostly. I can't believe the result they managed to achieve with the pixel art. It is on a level of its own. Apart from the sharpness of the water at the edge (please fix that), it looks fantastic. If you count visuals alone, there's no doubt in my mind that the game is a masterpiece. It makes me feel drawn inside the world and makes my imagination run wild as I continue to play the game and discover new regions. Also, the soundtrack, even if not at the level of genius of Paul Anthony Romero and Rob King in their prime, it is still pleasant and satisfying and thematically fits the game as a whole. Not big orchestral music the way Ubisoft did it in 5-7 (which I actually did like and had its own merits), but more intimate, magical and on a positive / happy note. And all of those elements, visuals and soundtrack combined, create this unique and inspiring atmosphere that only the HoMaM series managed to evoke. With so many failures and letdowns nowadays, I was starting to think it might have been impossible to recapture and deliver that with a modern day title, but they clearly have and I'm just mindblown and very excited about it. Drawing out that HoMaM spirit of old from withing my memory, it almost feels humbling to feel those same feelings. For that alone I feel grateful and consider 30€ a small price to pay.
Right now I'm playing something else since I was already committed, and also busy at work, which makes it very hard to disengage and get into the right mood. But hopefully this weekend I'll have more time to see how deep the strategy is. Really looking forward to it.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 17, 2022 11:34 PM |
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Looking forward to your honest opinion since we've been on the same level, roughly, what a new HoMM would need to manage.
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blue_camel
Famous Hero
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posted May 19, 2022 11:38 AM |
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Stevie said:
Yea, it became increasingly clear that that's the angle they took after I started playing the game myself. Right now I am actually shocked, SHOCKED, at how little attention this game is receiving. It is, by far, the closest thing to the spirit of HoMaM of old, especially of Heroes 2. Admittedly, I haven't played Heroes 2 (the only one in the franchise), but I'm not completely oblivious to it. I have at least some surface-level knowledge about it.
Also, since I haven't gone too in-depth with Song of Conquest yet, I'll limit myself to praising the atmosphere, and by that I mean visuals mostly. I can't believe the result they managed to achieve with the pixel art. It is on a level of its own. Apart from the sharpness of the water at the edge (please fix that), it looks fantastic. If you count visuals alone, there's no doubt in my mind that the game is a masterpiece. It makes me feel drawn inside the world and makes my imagination run wild as I continue to play the game and discover new regions. Also, the soundtrack, even if not at the level of genius of Paul Anthony Romero and Rob King in their prime, it is still pleasant and satisfying and thematically fits the game as a whole. Not big orchestral music the way Ubisoft did it in 5-7 (which I actually did like and had its own merits), but more intimate, magical and on a positive / happy note. And all of those elements, visuals and soundtrack combined, create this unique and inspiring atmosphere that only the HoMaM series managed to evoke. With so many failures and letdowns nowadays, I was starting to think it might have been impossible to recapture and deliver that with a modern day title, but they clearly have and I'm just mindblown and very excited about it. Drawing out that HoMaM spirit of old from withing my memory, it almost feels humbling to feel those same feelings. For that alone I feel grateful and consider 30€ a small price to pay.
Right now I'm playing something else since I was already committed, and also busy at work, which makes it very hard to disengage and get into the right mood. But hopefully this weekend I'll have more time to see how deep the strategy is. Really looking forward to it.
I think the reception has been pretty good so far. Yeah it's obviously not getting Call of Duty AAA game type numbers but the devs said that a lot more people bought it so far than they expected, and they seem pretty transparent so I doubt they are lying about that (who knows for sure, though  ). 1461 steam reviews already is pretty decent for such a short time period, very small % of people bother reviewing so you gotta think the total # of people that bought it is probably 30k+. 30k x $30 is almost $1 million before steam takes its cut, not too bad for a week. And that is only steam sales, don't know how many they sold on GOG.
They will probably take a small hit this week because unfortunately another game that looks great and shares playerbase a bit is "Old World", which just came out a few hours ago and is already on the top sellers list lol. Looks to me like a better Civ, potentially. Been keeping my eye on it for a while. Filthyrobot has been playing the sh-t out of it in beta and he usually only plays good games.
@ the music yeah I love it. Not quite Romero-tier but better than the music in 99% of other games. @ the art, yes it's very good. While there's a lot of good to say, I think the creature models are the best part. The only downside to the pixel-style is visibility,
It's not quite as easy to read the map as in HoMM. Not a gamebreaker at all, and I think mapmakers (and the game designers themselves when they make more core maps) will realize that the map clutter needs to be reduced some from the style of the original maps. They've already received a good bit of feedback about this.
If you haven't checked it out, one of the coolest things they have going on in the game is that 2 of the 4 options when you load up the game are COMMUNITY MAPS and MAP EDITOR. Right there in the main menu. And then there's this whole system when you go to the community maps where you can sort the maps by new/popular/etc. and you can subscribe to a mapmaker. Lots of cool stuff going on there.. the kind of stuff that people begged for for years and never received in countless other games.. and it's here day 1 in this game. Definitely something to get excited about.
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CountBezuhoff
Supreme Hero
Nihil sub sole novum
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posted May 19, 2022 05:58 PM |
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Hmm, maybe I'll try it out.
The Count
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Drakon-Deus 
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted May 19, 2022 06:02 PM |
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CountBezuhoff said:
Hmm, maybe I'll try it out.
The Count
Ditto.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted May 20, 2022 12:09 AM |
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I'm enjoying it a lot, even though it is a little bit sparse on content atm it's still very fun and the content that is there is very high-quality.
The building plots system is really cool, as is the casting system. I wouldn't like either of those in an actual heroes game but for a game that's just inspired by heroes? They're fun differences that give you a reason to play it without giving up on heroes entirely.
While I hope they add at least 2 or 3 more factions (as I understand they plan to do), the ones that are included right now are very well-designed. Arleon has all the upsides of being a cliche medieval Europe faction while also having more exotic "chaotic neutral" fey elements that make it stand out. Loth has a sort of "mad scientist" feel to it and the lore around it is very cool. It also has all the upsides of a traditional undead faction without feeling stale and done to death. Rana is a much-needed return of a Swamp Fortress type of faction with a more amphibious rather than reptilian feel. The protagonist of their campaign gives me strong Tarnum vibes and I'm here for it. Haven't played with Baryon yet, but it looks like its closest Heros eequivalent is Stronghold with a mix of Islamic Golden Age flavoring and more of a mercenary theme than a freedom-fighting orcs theme.
My personal wishlist for the game is more campaigns (which I'm sure will be added), a Conflux-esque faction and a Dungeon-esque faction, and perhaps more faction-specific buildings instead of just renamed and reskinned versions of buildings that are functionally the same. Maybe faction-specific skills and more diverse creature abilities too, although I could live without those.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 20, 2022 11:03 AM |
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The more I play the game the better it gets for me. For example, town-building is something you have to completely relearn, not because the system is different, because you will rebuild towns a lot, first building this and that, then, later demolish builds (and get a very decent refund) to build something else that you can make better use of now.
Considering this is still EA it's awesome.
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 20, 2022 04:23 PM |
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The map editor is a lot of fun. I’ve never been into map making but I’ve already put up a handful of maps anyways because it’s so easy to use.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 20, 2022 08:46 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
The more I play the game the better it gets for me. For example, town-building is something you have to completely relearn, not because the system is different, because you will rebuild towns a lot, first building this and that, then, later demolish builds (and get a very decent refund) to build something else that you can make better use of now.
Add to that the fact that you can build the same building multiple times! You can balance your income and troop generation to hit the sweet spot depending on how your economy develops or what resources you find. I'm playing Loth with an undead focus, it's a viable strategy. I'm not required to build prerequisite buildings producing creatures which I'll benefit less from using. I can focus on exactly what I want and it feels great.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted May 20, 2022 10:09 PM |
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As I said, the potential is monumentous. I'm gonna give it another go once they implement hard AI (currently, there are just the normal and easy difficulties).
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The_Green_Drag
Supreme Hero
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posted May 21, 2022 03:56 PM |
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Gandalf196 said:
As I said, the potential is monumentous. I'm gonna give it another go once they implement hard AI (currently, there are just the normal and easy difficulties).
Yeah the AI is bad currently. That’s why it’s cheating right now, which I didn’t even realize it was but the devs commented on it and said it’s not where they wanted it to be when early access started, so they had to make up for it.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 21, 2022 10:03 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 18:21, 22 May 2022.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 22, 2022 11:02 PM |
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I'm not sure that's right.
So far I've seen only the human/fay combo completely and the 8 troops are:
Militia/Sappers (stack limit 50)
Minstrels Troubadours (30)
Rangers/Archers (20)
Footmen/... (20)
Knights/... (10)
and 3 fay units with 20/10/5 stack limits
Clearly the Fay noble/queen is T3.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 23, 2022 07:59 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
I'm not sure that's right.
So far I've seen only the human/fay combo completely and the 8 troops are:
Militia/Sappers (stack limit 50)
Minstrels Troubadours (30)
Rangers/Archers (20)
Footmen/... (20)
Knights/... (10)
and 3 fay units with 20/10/5 stack limits
Clearly the Fay noble/queen is T3.
Uhm, no. I don't mean their category like Heroes 6 Core/Elite/Champion which Songs of Conquest doesn't even have, I mean their upgrade tier. You have Tier 1 which is the standard unupgraded version, Tier 2 the upgraded one, and then Tier 3 which only Rana has with the dragon. Picture:
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 23, 2022 08:21 PM |
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Ah, ok.
So since that's obviously a nod to H2 Swamp town ...?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2022 05:19 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 17:21, 24 May 2022.
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Are you asking that as if to say it should stay a nod to Heroes 2 instead of exploring its potential? It may start out as a nod, but it can end up being more than that, like a design direction for each faction. I don't see the drawback to my proposal unless it gets terribly mismanaged.
And on that note, I would absolutely love a T3 rat unit in Loth. 
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2022 05:46 PM |
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I'd say the same thing I said for every HoMM:
There is absolutely NO reason whatsoever to create all factions alike when it comes to the number of upgrades. There is especially no reason to give everyone a second upgrade for their best unit.
Upgrades, though, are obviously somewhat more important here, when you consider the stack limits.
Just as an example, there might be a second Knight upgrade.
And so on.
There might also be units without an upgrade.
With people touting faction asymmetry, this might be one way to go - different building trees for units, including their upgrades.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 24, 2022 08:12 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:14, 24 May 2022.
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Absolutely! If I'm correct, you're not arguing against anything I've said in essence. In fact, if you read my design ideas in that proposal, what you're saying is pretty much in agreement with what I said there.
So again, at least one can mean more than one. Any creature can be a candidate, even rats from Loth (that would be amazing actually, I want my T3 rats!), and the Knight from Arleon can be an example too, or any fae creature. Of course the factions would be more asymmetrical then, which I believe is a plus because variety and flavor. On paper it's a solid idea in my opinion.
...
T3 rats that get undead type. I want it.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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LordCameron
Known Hero
Veteran of the Succession Wars
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posted May 29, 2022 08:38 PM |
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I haven't played it yet, and I've got some concerns. Curious what people who have played it think.
Firstly, the pixel art looks really good when taken individually, but in aggregate from all the screenshots and videos I've seen it's really hard to see what is going on. It's like I'm straining to decipher what I'm looking at. In a game like HoMMII the maps make me relax because they are pleasant to look at. Similar to how comics make us feel good because of the simple lines.
Secondly, it seems like they've added so many differences it's more like a combination of Warlock:Masters of the Arcane & Age of Wonders. Not necessarily a bad thing, but competing with AoW AI and tactical depth is quite a challenge, and Warlock's expansive and exploratory city building is unmatched among the 4x-ish games I played.
Like they've ditched the simplicity, straightforwardness, and adventure of HoMM for tactics and strategy, but fall short against the competition in that area/sub-genre.
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This thread is pages long: 
