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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 07:26 PM |
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Philosophy and reality are very different things. The USSR had a chance to preserve itself. But what path would it choose, Chinese? Let's speak real and not from the clouds where thoughts immediately became a reality.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 07:35 PM |
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What else would i like to say? That propaganda programs (talks) about society can also be useful for a thinking person. To be effective, they have to rely on something real, both at the level of logic and at the level of the collective unconscious (archetypes).
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 07:36 PM |
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If you are so interested in these topics, then I have already given you advice. There are a lot of interesting people who talk interestingly about interesting things, much better than I do.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 07:48 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 19:57, 08 Apr 2022.
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I am a more down to earth person. I live now, you live in the future that has great chances to never happen. I prefer to belive people whose ideas really works. Capitalism works. The USSR had approximately 70 years to show the whole world their ideas are, too, worthsome. But we see results. Moreover, several generations had to work hard for nothing just for the belief their children would be happy and rich. Not the case. Now, when Russia achieved a fair level of well-being of its citizens, it wants back to the familiar swamp. I cannot fathom there are people who believe that it will work.
You like Stalin. OK. Don't you think that when Putin dies, another "great ruler" will replace him, and there are great chances it will be some of those you hate for the termination of the USSR. While in the US there is no such a problem. This country doesn't depend on "vertical power" so mush as Russia.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 07:53 PM |
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AlexSpl said:
Philosophy and reality are very different things. The USSR had a chance to preserve itself. But what path would it choose, Chinese? Let's speak real and not from the clouds where thoughts immediately became a reality.
I am not an expert on China. I have already said that there is more state capitalism than socialism. But this is a state with an ancient history. Shortly before the Age of Discovery, China was the most economically powerful country in the world. Now he is just returning to this state of his. Much to the surprise of the West, accustomed to placing itself at the center of the world and counting the history of China from the time of its "discovery" by Europeans.
However, since you compared the USSR and China. Both countries chose their path in the late 80s. China crushed its lovers of "freedom" with tanks on Tiananmen Square and saved the country. And the Soviet leaders were too humane for that. Or too weak - understand how you want.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 07:56 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 19:56, 08 Apr 2022.
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Don't think I don't know of such infamous events. But China somehow manages to balance on two chairs. And their average salary is $1200, while in 90's Russians laughed about Chinese quality.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 07:58 PM |
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I can't convince you and I won't.
AlexSpl said:
You like Stalin.
About Stalin - I would not say that I like him, but I do not like it when they slander a dead lion. I think he was a cruel and not entirely mentally healthy person, but for his era it was something like this: "I am forced to make good out of evil, because there is nothing else for me to make it out of."
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 08:07 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 20:12, 08 Apr 2022.
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I have no personal grudge against Stalin. But what I do know fo sure, he was a villain in the Soviet schoolbooks not long after his death in 1953. Not sure, if it's still so in Russians schoolbooks.
Actually, I think his repressions of educated people were what made him the avatar of evil. Still, if we can compare Hitler and Stalin, I think Stalin was more human, if one even can compare two evils (I personally believe that you actually can compare evils, though it's always very hard to do).
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 08:23 PM |
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Why this war is different? We have *real* people who lost their *real* loved ones. And, if it makes sense, we have many of them. Too many, again, if it makes sense. And for what? I don't believe people will be living happy lives after all this. Even those, who sympathize with Russia. My answer to call of help would be Russian citizenship and fair amount of money to start life in Russia anew. But you know, this war isn't about people actually.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 09:47 PM |
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Ben80 said:
To protect the USSR means to protect the future. Of all mankind.
I counter USSR with Third Reich.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 09:53 PM |
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Ben lives in a bubble. I don't think he understands how this world is really balancing. I'd say he is a fanatic. But it would be too harsh. He has his views on how this universe should function. I do believe that he read all those books, but.. he sounds like a sectant, or alike. This is just my opinion.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 09:58 PM |
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Edited by Baronus at 21:59, 08 Apr 2022.
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Baronus
I can give you analyse how russian heads works. Our expert:
"The Russians immediately had fake news that the attack on the train station in Kramatorsk was carried out by Ukrainian forces; this is unbelievable cynicism," said Pavlo Kyrylenko, head of the authorities of the Donetsk region in which Kramatorsk is located.
Excavation Ukrainians: Russia creates fake news about the attack in Kramatorsk,
Dziacha (Expert)
This is why Russian fake news affects Russian society, thanks to such actions many Russians believe in the Kremlin propaganda, but most believe that everyone lies both to the West and to the Russian authorities, so they believe that the truth cannot be established and they treat various events, such as the genocide in Bucza as if they never happened.
...
And you see Ben here dot to dot 'totshka v totshke' is ground by their 'media'.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 10:07 PM |
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Though I see what he struggles to say. He says that if a country does evil things to people who live in that country, who then should defend their rights? Actually, he has a point. For example, if I was one of those people whose rights were constantly violated to that extent that I asked God himself to help me, I would probably be on the side of Russia. What he doesn't understand that Russia does exactly the same but the scale is thousands times bigger. This should have been a local operation, not the attempt to capture Kyiv. But we realize now, that Russians really want Kiev, not Donbass, not Lugansk, and they don't stand for justice of commoners. It's obvious.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 10:15 PM |
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The murderous country will not defend any rights but break them what we see...
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 10:19 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 22:26, 08 Apr 2022.
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I think that Z stands for Zapad (West) and V stands for Vostok (East) of Ukraine.
I also remember the video with the head of Russian intelligence. Man was clearly terrified, but Putin asked two or three times, if he agrees to recognize separatist republics. I feel pity for this man, I think he understood what will happen next.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 10:35 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 22:40, 08 Apr 2022.
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Also I should say this - Russia didn't know about the consequences. Still, it's not the worst scenario for them. Actually, NATO could accept Ukraine according to the emergency protocol (don't you think such one exists?). I doubt Russia is ready to go nuclear. Chances are. But you have to be braindead for this. It's just Russian roulette in some sense. Bluff, which can be easily became a reality with too much pressure from the West.
What we see now - Russia is not that desperate yet. So, the US position is understandable. This is exacltly why humans should not be presidents. I know that even Putin doesn't really control its nuclear forces. But you know, they might be from the one sect. I don't believe those nukes we have are capable to destroy Earth. But they, for sure, can destroy some big cities, which is inacceptable.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 10:59 PM |
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Russia was well aware of the consequences, and has been preparing for them since 2014.
And let the Poles continue to go crazy with anger. They just have an inferiority complex. They once tried to become an empire, but they did not succeed (largely because of Russia). After that, they became a prostitute country, always looking for a strong patron. I, unlike them, do not feel any hatred towards Poland. I don't care - there is such a country or not, it is unremarkable (except for the residents who go crazy with Russophobia).
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 11:09 PM |
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Edited by AlexSpl at 23:14, 08 Apr 2022.
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Also I can call myself a Russian. OK, technically I'm the USSR citizen. I can't share my thoughts in Belarusian as I can do it in Russian, though I think Belarus is better place to live than Russia. I've never felt that Russian people are my enemies, and I still don't. The same I can say about Ukrainian people. The three ethnicities are closely intertwined (for those who do think we are diffent as Earth and Mars). Ukrainians, of course, hate Russian people *now*. They hate it because they suffer from their cruelty and inhumatiny. They die. So, they should hate Russians for their aggression to fight effectively. Russia cannot understand that Ukrainian people, though bros, aren't exactly Russians. And Russia thinks Ukrainian people are just peasants of some sort. Read what Russian media write about Ukrainian language. Same were about Belorusian language. There are people who just live on Earth, and there are those who think that artificial borders matter. I believe there will be a day when the whole world will be one united family. But till that moment we must kill our inner haters, racist, etc.
 You don't even have to do that if you're raised right from the start And, of course, by humans (or extraterrestrial forms of live) that really know something about the life on our Earth and the life outside of it.
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Ben80
Famous Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 11:18 PM |
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Ukrainians who live in Russia are practically Russians. Therefore, Russians think that Ukrainians are the same Russians. About the "village" language. Firstly, no one has canceled "domestic" nationalism.
Secondly, the Belarusian and Ukrainian languages ​​most likely would not have stood out if the authorities in the Russian Empire paid attention to the literacy of the population. But since this was not done, local dialects developed.
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AlexSpl
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2022 11:22 PM |
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I gave myself as an example. Still I don't want Russia to dictate how I should live. And Russia now looks exactly as a dictator.
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This thread is pages long: 
