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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: HOMM3 Tactics
Thread: HOMM3 Tactics This thread is 71 pages long: 1 10 20 30 ... 40 41 42 43 44 ... 50 60 70 71 · «PREV / NEXT»
angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted October 31, 2013 10:11 AM

Please do not follow the majority of szilellis advices if you want to bring out the best of the necromancer folks.

Just for an example:
If you play necro, you try to get expert necro with ALL your necro heroes as soon as possible. You chain your troops and fight with all of them every day. Collectors are NON necro heroes!

You fight vs stronger monsters but those which come in little amounts at the beginning to LEVEL UP fast, THEN (with expert necro and amplifier) you fight the low level troops who come in bigger amounts to get out the most possible skeletons! (imp cache!!)

You never ever go for money buildings (especially capitol!) in random maps...Even townhall is questionable in most maps.

And chosing DIPLO with necro is like Klitschko having a third fist

...boring
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idontcare
idontcare


Known Hero
posted November 01, 2013 06:00 PM

hi angelito i have a few questions:

which necros are worth for being mainhero, as i like the might +gold guy as starter so i can go 100% for creatures so i dont have always galthran, isra or on the magic site thant/sandro/vedomina

so i end up in end of week one with 8 heroes where maybe only 3 of them are necros and the rest just scouters, maybe a 9th hero if i reach a new unguarded town

also do you even care really much about conversatories(besides the skelboost) or do you trie to get some nonnecro(hack, gunnar, tazar...) for having a bunch of wyverns+angels?

on jebus:

do you pick up every +stat or only the ones that are "on your way" before endgame(2snd month?) with your main

with which heroes you "leave the road"? the guys with fast creatures(cents, skels etc) or the ocasional gremlinguy? i read somewhere you shouldnt leave the road, simply because its a pointer to either new town or subway, but theres a lot of stuff lieing around :/


also my start looks basicly this:
unload zombies in town, grab gold for second hero, maybe try to get wood/ore
second hero searches further gold for 3rd hero
3rd hero looks for wood/ore and gold on the way

4th+ heroes: gold

then 2nd day my guys with creatures follow the road, the guys with 1 creature search gold/wood/ore and precious resources like the 10 sulfur and 5/5/5/5 for dragonvault

i go usally estate+castle first week, is this alright?
after that maybe transformater+graves, and mag+amplifier

which magic you would call the importants on a guy who finds both view air/earth, i mean with view earth could make an early grail hunt but with view air you see towns, obv only on expertlvl

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted November 01, 2013 06:12 PM

I personally think that in most cases Galthran is the best starting hero, his specialty allows +1 speed and he can also come with a lot of skeleton which gives a higher chance of being able to take out more neutrals early on.

He can even be used as main, because Necropolis is all about Skeletons and Galthran gets good bonuses with Skeletons as Skeletons are only level 1 units.
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Living time backwards

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idontcare
idontcare


Known Hero
posted November 01, 2013 11:46 PM

hi i wonder if this is any good:

my army would be 1,5 week necro but i didnt bought yet, simply because theres no way to chain it to galthran and i not met ai yet

i didnt fought much besides one time with galthran for the inferno and one time with meteorshowerguy for way (with 20 skels xd)

map is 6mxl 12 or somthing like that dunno xd(at least very rich

in necro town every creature is build(estate+castle week 1), amplifier too, and the skel+unearthed graves(latter on day7 ) upped estates then on day1w3
in inferno i went for the moneyroute since it had already a fort, and i dont think i can support a week of creatures there, planning for capitol there
in rampart also moneyroute+on day 7 i build treasure
i maybe walk with the dendroidguy up there for some diplomacy (i mean cmon, he popped up in tavern, so )

is there a way to ban fly/dd on a template? i guess no
(or maybe with another txt by replacing the spell)

you can see i already discovered ~1/3 of the hole map(overground in the calcaltion), i wonder if more is possible, or even "good" because i could very well just dont pick up every resource for more scouting

what i should do next? in dragon utopias i figured out that vampires rock, 6 fodderskels+vamps will do a small one? bloodlust and shield on vamps then, maybe haste in 3rd round

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madmartigan
madmartigan


Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
who will never walk alone
posted November 12, 2013 07:46 PM

The hell... I remember the day Frank started this thread just like it was yesterday... damm I'm old !!!
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Aron
Aron


Known Hero
posted November 21, 2013 11:49 AM

How do you guys get these endless chains of heroes and you don't buy gold upgrades? If you're playing on hard or normal then play the game as it's intended darnit why abuse it when the AI is already weak.

An idea for multiplayer would be to let everyone start with 3 heroes and disable taverns everywhere.

That's kinda what got me away from multiplayer back in the day. People playing the game the way it really wasn't intended.
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted November 21, 2013 04:48 PM

That's what the "native style" was founded for in mulitplayer.

You are only allowed to use/buy heroes who belong to your town fraction.

Means, first week 2 heroes (95% of the time there are NOT 2 heroes of the same faction in the tavern),. and then 1 additonal hero every week.

Heroes out of prisons had to be dismissed at the end of that turn.

Makes the turns faster, but the game longer
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 21, 2013 05:35 PM
Edited by Salamandre at 20:11, 21 Nov 2013.

Aron said:
An idea for multiplayer would be to let everyone start with 3 heroes and disable taverns everywhere.


Aron said:
People playing the game the way it really wasn't intended.


You see the irony here: you would play with a weird rule (no tavern, joking?), while bashing on others for not playing as it was "intended". What you know about what was intended?

Rules are initiated by those who are helpless in front of better player. Like the guy who can't run as fast as another, therefore he asks they both run with one leg attached. That's all about...

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Aron
Aron


Known Hero
posted November 21, 2013 10:42 PM
Edited by Aron at 22:46, 21 Nov 2013.

Well the idea for a tavern is just an idea as in you have to really take care of your heroes, not risk them, take care of your supply lines (let's say you can start with 5 instead of 3 on a large map).


You would actually be able to attack supply lines/chains and someone would actually care!

The reason I'd like to play with rules like this is because I found the game far more enjoyable back when nobody knew about things like this. At least not casual players. Back when people thought about a long-term game and didn't know how powerful a short-term massive exploration and all-in attack could be.


Also a big problem is the use of the firewall which destroys the challenge completely and makes Conflux way to powerfull (but any other castle can use it too in a horrendous way). I'd say 1/1/1/1/1/1/1 armies and firewalls is borderline.

But using 1/1/2/2/1/1/1 is directly exploitative and should be bannable or something.


angelito said:
That's what the "native style" was founded for in mulitplayer.

You are only allowed to use/buy heroes who belong to your town fraction.

Means, first week 2 heroes (95% of the time there are NOT 2 heroes of the same faction in the tavern),. and then 1 additonal hero every week.

Heroes out of prisons had to be dismissed at the end of that turn.

Makes the turns faster, but the game longer


That's actually kewl I should probably apply this rule to my singleplayer games too!
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2XtremeToTake
2XtremeToTake


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted November 22, 2013 04:11 AM

Quote:
You never ever go for money buildings (especially capitol!) in random maps...Even townhall is questionable in most maps.



This is one of the things I truly never understood about the competitive HOMM scene...how on earth do you keep up your gold income? Even when I go for capital, I always find myself starved for gold. How is this possible o.0
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I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met.

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OhforfSake
OhforfSake


Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
posted November 22, 2013 04:37 AM

There's plenty of money on the map.

I've never experienced not starting with a town hall on a random map though.

Btw. I keep reading your username as 2XTremeToCake, I think I'm subconsciously associating with Hanzel & Gretzel

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Aron
Aron


Known Hero
posted November 22, 2013 04:42 AM
Edited by Aron at 08:19, 23 Nov 2013.

I've never really been in the scene but on random maps there usually are alot of easily capturable short-term income spots dotting everything. Either those imp buildings or dwarf fortresses or just randomly placed chests. It's not like in scenarios where there's not much around to begin with and then the further out you get the more there is.

So by capturing these things using the crazy amount of troops especially pre-patch that you could get by just spamming heroes you can concentrate on building up your forces - trying to even get level 7 buildings on week 1. And then it's basically just about who strikes first just before the week ends or sometimes with a good chain on day 1.

they can probably explain better. But imo it's kinda meh but to each his own.
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favio
favio


Hired Hero
posted November 22, 2013 11:42 AM

Does somebody still build capitol on random maps?

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted November 22, 2013 12:31 PM

Of course. Initially this thread is about multiplayer games, so in MP you will mostly meet and fight opponent week 2 or early third, so no really time or use for capitol (do the maths). But if you expect to play some XL or single, capitol will certainly be done second week.

Depends also on map resources, I played once a XL template -don't recall name- where there were <> 5 chests in my whole starting area. In that case, going for money first is the only solution, I think.
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Era II mods and utilities

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szilellis
szilellis

Tavern Dweller
posted November 22, 2013 02:33 PM

idontcare said:
hi szillisi (um, WHAT? xd )

do you play like that with impossible?

i prefer hard since the AI does not improve. Impossible only has the resource handicap, which is important but not to my liking. i prefer having 7 cpu players allied against me to make it more difficult, even on a very small map.

also which monsterstack u avoid, even when there is a "musthave" artifact, like gloves or boots of speed

for me any 'must have' artifact has a specific date i need to acquire. my 1st priority is to open all possible passages to exploration reasonably far so i can have a list of what i have available to attack to prioritize my gains. a 'must have' artifact can easily become secondary from another 'must have' artifact several tiles away. after all most artifacts are 'must have' unless duplicate. for thant at day one for example, a +4 knowledge crown is more important than vampire's cowl. and even more important than the crown is a stack of crystals and gems, to reach 10 each, to build upg. estate for vampire lords.

i had a random map, where "lots of manticores" guarded a vampires coal, which weak i could tackle such guys?

lots means 20-49. if it was just the estate guarding which is considered just a 4 level dwelling, there should be very close to 20. if there was also something else like a Pandora box or a guarded passage as well, there could be more. you need vampire lords definitely. AI does not realize vampire lords specialties so it splits to all 7 positions. That is, 3 manticores per stack. top stacks may have four. Even if all are four, that is, 4*7=28 manticores, you can still do it at week 2 day 1. You have 12 vampires, 8 from week 2 generation and 4 when you build the estate. 4 manticores kill 2-3 vampires, the rest 9-10 can resurrect them. you simply place your vampire lords to the top left or right corner so only 2 stack can attack you every turn, manticores are 2-tile creatures. just fly there at your move. manticores won;t reach. round 2 wait. 2 stacks will attack. at the first you retaliate and you will be full. at the second you won;t. but since you waited, you can now attack at the end of the round, no retal. so you are full again. round 3 (and every round thereafter) you play first, you are full so wait. the same will happen again. repeat until all 7 stacks are gone. a smart thing to do is to spot which of the two stacks plays second. because the second stack attacks you without retaliation. for same creature stacks, the one starting lower on the grid plays later. if you spot it, do not attack if you kill it, leave it with 1 or 2 manticores. attack the other stack, the faster. that way, you do not only have just 2 out of 7 stacks hitting you, but one of them is also weakened at 1-2 manticores and only the other get fresh full stacks replacement. this last one is optional but comes essential when the stack of enemies is more challenging for your stack of vampire lords and can give you victory even when you are handicapped. you can nver be fully sure about been 22 manticores or 42 (6 per stack). personally i would attack at week 2. even if been 6 per stack you and you loose 3-4 (the rest 8-9 cannot ressurect but about 2 and half vampires) you definatetly need to criple the slower stack to 1-2 manticores , so you fight 1 stack of 6 and one of 1 most of the time. you can also use any reasonable 1st level spell like shield to absorb the first 2 stack of 6 manticores shock or the raise dead spell - if you have 30 mana you have 2 raise dead if 20, you have 1 raise dead and one 5 point spell - a shield is ideal.

also, does it make sense to switch to another guy, like isra or the already bought galtran on the end, or is thant your endhero?
Thant is my endhero although i have won pvp games with galthran or vokial as well. isra or vidomina do not have specialty that will help AT the critical battle, but prepare until then. Thant, Galthran and Vokial have specialties that will help AND AT the critical battle decisively, so i prefer one of them, Thant by default since i start with. In all cases, the human enemy player needs to get rid of your vampire lords, if he does not do that at the first stages of the battle, things will most likely turn to his doom.

Thant has the advantage of extra raise which is almost unbalanced but he loose spell flexibility. a usual scenario (since berserk or even blind won;t work on undead) is damage-raise, damage-raise and so on. So you practically counter an impolsion. If you have anti-magic and/or counterstrike then things become very difficult for your opponent to gang VL. And of course while your opponent spents one or more rounds to lower your vamprire stack to an 'manageable' level, the rest of your army, even skeleton warriors, are safe from attack and can also gang. Here is one of thant greatest advantages. Even if your opponent spent for example one or two or even three rounds to weaken your vampires lords before turn to the rest of your army, Thant will ressurect more VL than other heroes if you choose to, and the next turn again, forcing your opponent to recalculate if the remaining VL stack is still safe for him.

Vokial increases VL attack and defense passively. This means that, if high enough, VL will actually be 5th level creatures from attack and defense view. IT is also passive, allowing Vokial to cast whatever is needed. He is also death-night, meaning, statistically, some attack and defense more from standard hero attack and defense. Additionally, some combat skills like armorer will be present. So at the and, Vokial's VL recieve less damage and deal more damage than Thant's VLs. And Vokial may also cast animate dead. Again, spells like counter magic or counterstrike at his possession will make things difficult for the enemy player. The enemy player needs to plan thoroughly to dispatch Vokial's VL.

Galthran is a lovely choice. Surprisingly good. To make a long story short, your experience with Galthran at a critical battle will be to maybe loose some or most of VLs, but win the battle. AI is better unedifying the threat of a stack, but a human player may ignore skeleton warriors. Which they gonna also be much more than a casual 1st level creature in an army. Simply put, while the enemy works on your vampire lords, your skeleton warriors will seriously damage the enemy army.

Tamika is sexy too with her deathknights, do you think shes playable with a bunch of dknights+maybe liches?


I do not choose Tamika but i do not consider her less powerful than the above for main hero. You need to plan. Make sure you build the dwelling at week 2, 3 the latest. Tamika;s DN are actually almost level 7 creatures from ATT/DEF view. And 120 HP plus damage and deathblow are great. From all towns and all creature-specialty heroes those with specialty on level 6 are the ones who can make a difference at end game and higher levels. Even if the enemy player knows your hero specialty, he still needs to decide if he deals with death nights or vampire lords first.

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szilellis
szilellis

Tavern Dweller
posted November 22, 2013 02:51 PM

Salamandre said:
I miss this thread high standards. Formerly started by a great multiplayer champion, down to noobs joining HC then and now while writing thousand words about how they defeat the computer. szilellis, Thant at level 1 is 100% animate dead in your book? Do you know how animate and resurrect work?


"That is because Thant already knows the animate dead spell, so you begin with animate dead with 100% probability (TO HAVE IT) at Day 1."

If you know another way to have animate dead with 100% probability at day 1 let me know, always glad to learn something new.

However i play this game since release AND until today so in general it would be great for me to learn something new. Found the forum recently.

By the way, do you win 7 ALLIED CPUs in an extra small map? How fast?
Do people play multiplier these days? Got a link?

I still wait for your random map. I play the game since release as i say, i have played hundredths of multilayer games more than a decade ago, and i only lost once. At my very first multilayer, which happened to be the first time i played the game at all, when some friends brought it to try hotseat.

You miss high standards, but you have to be either naive or just aggressive to me to believe that, in THIS game, PVE is the true base to train to beat PVP.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted November 22, 2013 03:10 PM

szilellis said:
From all towns and all creature-specialty heroes those with specialty on level 6 are the ones who can make a difference at end game and higher levels. Even if the enemy player knows your hero specialty, he still needs to decide if he deals with death nights or vampire lords first.



Hi szilellis,

can you please stop posting in this thread? It almost makes my eyes bleed.

Actually a level-6-creature specialists do almost NOTHING for this creatures, because the additional percentage attack/defence he should give to this creatures is divided by 6.

And "vampire lords or death nights" are NOT the enemys thread in an necro endfight.

Please get some knowledge first before you give the expert here in this forum. Your "playing instructions" in the thread before just makes the peeps laugh hard.
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szilellis
szilellis

Tavern Dweller
posted November 22, 2013 03:24 PM

Salamandre said:
Aron said:
An idea for multiplayer would be to let everyone start with 3 heroes and disable taverns everywhere.


Aron said:
People playing the game the way it really wasn't intended.


You see the irony here: you would play with a weird rule (no tavern, joking?), while bashing on others for not playing as it was "intended". What you know about what was intended?

Rules are initiated by those who are helpless in front of better player. Like the guy who can't run as fast as another, therefore he asks they both run with one leg attached. That's all about...


I will agree on that. Back at 1998 the first 'balanced' rule a group of 5-6 folks we play hot seat develop was that none take necro because they were 'imba'. I say no problem and i also told them to take for themselves if they like since i do not consider them overpowered. They accept of course since the best restriction is the one that only applies to the other as Salamander very smartly notes above. Later i was forbidden to take dungeon for the same reason, and then stronghold and castle without Crag and Lounis. And after that, they realize they simply talk bullsnow.

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szilellis
szilellis

Tavern Dweller
posted November 22, 2013 03:30 PM

angelito said:
Please do not follow the majority of szilellis advices if you want to bring out the best of the necromancer folks.

Just for an example:
If you play necro, you try to get expert necro with ALL your necro heroes as soon as possible. You chain your troops and fight with all of them every day. Collectors are NON necro heroes!

You fight vs stronger monsters but those which come in little amounts at the beginning to LEVEL UP fast, THEN (with expert necro and amplifier) you fight the low level troops who come in bigger amounts to get out the most possible skeletons! (imp cache!!)

You never ever go for money buildings (especially capitol!) in random maps...Even townhall is questionable in most maps.

And chosing DIPLO with necro is like Klitschko having a third fist

...boring


At least one collector/explorer/transported is needed at any map size at any town.
You cannot possibly support getting 8 heroes with expert necromancy ASAP to fight all the time and at the same time ignore the necromancy amplifier at day 2 and the importance of a second necromancy amplifier.
The fastest and relatively massive skeleton 'income' will come from your one and only vampire lord stack, thus you need 1 hero with expert necromancy.

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szilellis
szilellis

Tavern Dweller
posted November 22, 2013 03:39 PM

Xarfax111 said:
szilellis said:
From all towns and all creature-specialty heroes those with specialty on level 6 are the ones who can make a difference at end game and higher levels. Even if the enemy player knows your hero specialty, he still needs to decide if he deals with death nights or vampire lords first.



Hi szilellis,

can you please stop posting in this thread? It almost makes my eyes bleed.

Actually a level-6-creature specialists do almost NOTHING for this creatures, because the additional percentage attack/defence he should give to this creatures is divided by 6.

And "vampire lords or death nights" are NOT the enemys thread in an necro endfight.

Please get some knowledge first before you give the expert here in this forum. Your "playing instructions" in the thread before just makes the peeps laugh hard.


So, to understand, if you play with me on an XL map and you have to choose a creature specialty you choose lvl1?

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