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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 31, 2009 11:58 AM |
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I don't know Mytical - I'm not convinced that penalizing and silencing (forcing people to stop expressing their opinion) will solve the problem.
From what I'm anticipating this thread will be flooded with outraged people (and that would include me).
Nah, I think the proposal goes against everything OSM stands for.
The only way to solve this imo, must come from the troublemakers themselves - So, Elodin must double-check his statements and quite dragging his religion in unrelated topics while JollyJokers must stop telling others off. Both must stop flaming others, or stop replying aggressively altogether.
This is not about beliefs or faiths - this is just about showing that they are right and others are wrong - all that matters is being correct. Whether that's determined Ethically or Religiously, it doesn't matter - as long as I prove the rival's wrong. This too, and more than Mysty's proposal, goes AGAINST everything OSM stands for: Constructive Debating about Life, in Order to gain Wisdom.
Not only Elodin and JJ must mind their tone - if we wish to make OSM a better place, ALL of us must work on it? People like TheDeath, DagothGares, Xerdux, Myself, and others also contributed to this - The Only alternative is to abolish OSM altogether.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted August 31, 2009 11:58 AM |
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No. Not "They should drop it because they both don't know what's wrong and what's right."
But "They should drop it for the good of the forum". The absolute last thing I want to do is ban a topic, but it is getting to the point where I don't think there is a choice. A healthy thriving community vs a dying one because of a single topic. I know which I choose.
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Message received.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 31, 2009 12:01 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 12:30, 31 Aug 2009.
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Quote:
You can find more of those in virtually every connected thread.
Apart from that, it's pretty interesting that so many people here come with "they should drop it because they both don't know what's wrong and what's right", when I'm just referring to the the point, that it is exactly THAT one that Elodin is denying. HE IS NOT WRONG WHEN IT COMES TO RELIGION, GOD'S WORD AND ITS INTERPRETATION. That is the iron law, but I wonder who'sactually buying that?
I don't. Silly sceptical me.
JollyJoker, DROP IT. Everyone what had a little amount of sence KNOWS that most of Elodin's arguements are not to be taken seriously. There is NO need to KEEP pointing it out.
Everyone know, JJ. We don't need you to point that out, but you know that don't already, don't you?
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted August 31, 2009 12:01 PM |
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Lex, that is the last thing I want to do. I feel that there may not be another alternative. Neither is going to change. A lot of people are in the wrong, I agree. It's over one topic though. Weighing one topic against a healthy board..give me a good alternative. A viable alternative. One that everybody will be happy with.
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Message received.
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted August 31, 2009 12:02 PM |
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ROFLOL, a bit chaotic we are in our replies Myt, are we not? 
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted August 31, 2009 12:07 PM |
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Hmm I don't see it, but I am a chaotic person. Mind clarifying? I also notice a lack of a viable alternative.
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Message received.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted August 31, 2009 12:29 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 12:39, 31 Aug 2009.
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May I present the context of the quotes without getting in trouble?
Quote:
Me saying I know the truth does not mean I can't discuss things. Every Christian knows the truth that Jesus is Lord.
I know certain facts about electricity and electrical circuits. That does not mean that I can't discruss electricity.
Now, you don't believe that anyone can know what they believe is true. That is your belief. And saying that teaching a child any religion is brainwashing, mentally raping, and feeding a child BS is certainly saying someone is wrong.
Quote:
I am not superior to other people.
I have nver said "my beliefs are superior to your beliefs."
I do say Jesus Christ is the one true God existing as a man. He is the human manifestation of God. He died for my sins (as a man.) He rose from the dead in a glorified human body, ascended to heaven, and sits on the throne of God. He is both a glorified human being and the one true God. The Lamb of God and God. The Son and the Father. A man and the Spirit.
In my own limited human intellect I cannot "ascend to" the things of God. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Revealed by the Spirit of God. This is what Jesus meant by:
Quote:
I have received the Spirit of God. I am one of "those crazy Pentecostals" who speaks in tongues. I know Jesus is Lord (God) because he lives in me.
Whether or not Jesus is God is not an academic exercise to me. It is a truth that God stirred in my heart (revealed.) I submitted to him and received his Spirit.
I am not superior to anyone. I am a human being in need of God's mercy like all other people.
My beliefs are true because they are true. Not because I am in any way superior to any other person. I know they are true because of the revelations of God not because of my own limited human intellect.
Yes, I do say my beliefs are true. But I am not superior to other human beings.
It is obvious that both Christianity and atheism can't be true.
Quote:
JJ
Quote:
I didn't instantly or gradually take it to heart on a basis of popular demand. But back to the original point of my post: when you bark that someone is "absolutely wrong", compelling counter-evidence on your side is expected, and - speaking with token neutrality mind you - there is currently plenty evidence to suggest God has not recently been manifesting, at least not in the same context as the Bible.
Elodin
Quote:
Your claim is that God does not manifest himself and you have offered no proof and cannot because there is no proof that God does not manifest himself. I am a Pentecostal and have seen God move many times. I have been healed of minor ailments and have known others, including family members, to be cured of things medical science can't cure.
So bring forth the "plenty of evidence" that suggests God is not manifesting himself.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted August 31, 2009 12:57 PM |
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Point, set, match. As I said, neither can drop it. Neither can back off or let it go.
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Message received.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted August 31, 2009 01:02 PM |
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Quote:
Point, set, match. As I said, neither can drop it. Neither can back off or let it go.
Mystical I am quite ready to let it go. I just wanted to establish the quotes that were taken out of context. I think that is only fair.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted August 31, 2009 01:13 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 14:09, 31 Aug 2009.
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Maybe I also add something here 
I agree (to a certain degree!) with the post binabik made and recieved his +qp for. I don't want to start to quote his posts and give a comment on every line, because this is what turned the OSM into what it is today.
Of course it would be the easiest way to forbid every discussion about religion on HC. The easiest way for us Mods, and the easiest way for other members who want to take part on OSM again.
And especially because I don't see much sense in talking about such a hugh and wide topic on a GAMEBOARD!
And before someone specific with a dark avatar makes a reply.
- Yes, I KNOW there were other hugh topics discussed here on board too. So when we forbid religious threads, we have to forbid ALL non related (to Heroes) topics...blabla....please keep it!
But even though HC is STILL not a democratic board but a board run by a private person, I understand (and agree to a certain degree!) that censorship doesn't fit into modern times, except in some communist countries maybe. And as already mentioned, religion (to be more precise: the different views on religion) are only a PART of the problem the OSM has since a certain amount of time.
I will do the following:
I will close three threads tomorrow:
- I gave up in believing in God
- What do you really know about the bible?
- The morality and ethics of War
Rules for the future:
- If you open a thread in the OSM, give it a specified and detailed title!
 This way we can see off topic discussions much easier, earlier and can act earlier. Maybe you can HCM an OSM mod with the idea you have, and we can find a title which could fit best.
- Leave the Bible, God, Jesus and similars out of threads which are not explicit religious orientated
I know you can find related things in the bible for nearly every kind of topic. But we all know where a threads leads to if the bible or God is mentioned for the first time. Just try to find arguments OUTSIDE of religion. If this is not possible for you, then PLEASE STAY OUT.
- Feel free to create a thread called "Quotes of the bible and their meanings" (just a suggestion...)
I would strongly recommend to not use this thread as a new "battleground". I would even suggest this thread for only those who believe in some kind of God. Everybody who is atheist or agnostic or doesn't care about the bible due to other reasons shouldn't participate at all (inlcuding myself!). This has nothing to do with censorship, but with keeping freedom and peace. I have learned from those mentioned religious topics, that different believers understand specific bible texts different. So those threads can still be interesting for many people.
Let's see how this will work out.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2009 01:16 PM |
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This all reminds me a little gem by korejora here. It's around the end of the page and shows a few things about people who don't know when to stop.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted August 31, 2009 01:30 PM |
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Angelito, I agree. 110%. I am willing to give that a try. Heck I am willing to try anything right now. Might I suggest one thing? If it is a thread about anything religious .. at all.. it should have such in the title. IE. Religion - Bible Quotes and their meaning. Or Bible Quotes and their Meaning - Religious Debate.
I've sent you an HCM though. 
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Message received.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 31, 2009 01:55 PM |
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Not *you*, both. Nobody told you to leave either. And for goodness sake please don't try to come up with a counter argument.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted August 31, 2009 04:32 PM |
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I tried to make a neutral religion thread with a rule of no-quoting, but you guys ignored me and kept quoting yourself to death in TA's thread.
Since Angelito is going to lock those three up (finally... Threads was good, but turned into such a mess..), feel free to use it lol.
here.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted September 01, 2009 09:31 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 09:31, 01 Sep 2009.
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The 3 mentioned threads are closed now.
Unnecessary posts here have been deleted.
This issue is closed now and shouldn't come up again. Let's see how the members can handle the new guideline.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted September 01, 2009 03:16 PM |
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I know this is horribly offtopic, in such a serious serious place - but I just can't resist!
*hugs Angelito and runs away*
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted September 01, 2009 03:18 PM |
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We could use a few more hugs around this place, Pan, so don't be so quick to run away.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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pandora
Honorable
Legendary Hero
The Chosen One
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posted September 01, 2009 03:22 PM |
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*runs back in and hugs Corribus, then takes off again before the OSM mods can catch me*
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"In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted September 01, 2009 03:29 PM |
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Pan just saved the thread
BTW, why run? What can they do, Silence her? 
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted September 01, 2009 03:31 PM |
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The end of an era... how sad. But I guess there isn't much a normal member can do about higher ups decisions...
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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