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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted December 02, 2008 01:17 PM |
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Sorry to say, but you have quite a bit to learn.
Tell me, how to do you construct many houses, make many villagers, build an army of militia and then start advancing when you have forgot the most important thing? You have to start gathering resources first. Use the villagers that you start out with to collect food and wood (gold and stone become more important later, especially the Castle and Imperial Age), but if you can, try to get some Gold but mainly concentrate on Food and Wood.
Food should be concentrated on mostly since you will need food to create more villagers. The more villagers you have, then you will be able to gather more resources, while being able to build stuff with the villagers that you might have idle (but you should never have idle villagers). Also, I would not recommend buying Militia when you are just starting as they are kinda weak and building villagers at the start is more important IMO than building an army, since there are much stronger units when you begin to advance. The first things you should do when in a game are gather resources (which I have mentioned) and explore with the Scout that you might have. Exploring is quite important also, because if you find an enemy base then you will be able to know which sides they might send troops from, and where to put up walls and to defend yourself. On harder difficulty levels, Computers will usually start sending troops to you quite early on, so it is important that you defend yourself and know where the enemy is coming from.
Also, you say that you almost never have problems because of the amount of villagers that you have, researching and upgrading until you reach the Imperial Age. tell me, what difficulty do you play on and do you use cheats at all? You should try starting your conquest a little before the Imperial Age, especially on harder difficulties. It's not much fun to try and kill them if they are in Feudal Age and so are you, but perhaps when you are in Castle Age and the computer is in that age as well, then you could start your attack.
And about your last part, that might kinda be true since I find the Spanish to be one of the best civilisations in the entire game, and that the Goths are the worst civilisation in the game (and trust me, they suck). I would classify the Byzantines as an all-rounder civilisation. they are good at both attack and defence, but certainly not the best civilisation in the game.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 02, 2008 01:38 PM |
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Speaking of which anyone have a good counter to spanish elites?
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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted December 02, 2008 01:41 PM |
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I LOVE them. What a pitty the Ellite Teutonic Knights are slow...
@william: Agree about the Goths!
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 02, 2008 01:46 PM |
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Great, people only play imba nations here but no one knows how to counter them. 
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted December 02, 2008 01:51 PM |
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A count might be in your defence. Build bombard towers behind double walls. Conquistadors are powerful, one of the most powerful units in the game, but they CAN be beaten. It's just a matter of picking a variety of units (instead of just a single kind).
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 02, 2008 02:01 PM |
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Defense won't win you the game Will. 
I need troops that can kill them. Towers aren't movable.
So far my best tactic has been to stop him from building castles.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted December 02, 2008 02:05 PM |
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Defence might not win you the game, but it might keep you alive long enough so that you may have a chance. Without defence, then you are basically a sitting duck for all other enemies on the map and on harder difficulties they WILL fight you and kill you if you don't defend yourself properly.
Troops that could kill them might be Heavy Cavalry. You need speed to be able to kill them, and that is probably the only way since the enemy usually likes to shoot at your troops and then run away, and you won't ever catch them if you have slow troops.
Oh and building Castles is defending.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 02, 2008 02:25 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 14:25, 02 Dec 2008.
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I'm not talking about computers. They are no problem.
I'm talking about a good human player(probably better than all of us here ). So stay alive long enough to have a chance doesn't work. It'll be like castle sitting in heroes.
Onagers work but they are too slow that they're never there where you need them. You can outrange them with archers but they don't have enough HP and damage. Cho ku nos and archers compared to pretty well but one ciuvilisation isn't enough.
Oh and heavy cavalry gets killed like flies.
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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted December 02, 2008 04:09 PM |
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No machine can't oversmart a human brain
The computers are realy easy for me, that is probably one of the reasons the game boored me.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 02, 2008 04:15 PM |
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Quote:
No machine can't oversmart a human brain
Tell that to chess players.
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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted December 02, 2008 04:41 PM |
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No matter is the game Chess or modern RTS, the AI still has much defects...
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 02, 2008 04:49 PM |
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Actually Kasparov left chess because computers can beat even the best of players. Learn your topics.
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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted December 02, 2008 04:55 PM |
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Nevermind....Replace "Chess" with "Arcade"
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 02, 2008 05:05 PM |
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Edited by Lexxan at 17:13, 02 Dec 2008.
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I agree fully with William, except from the Goth part (though only partially)
Goths are a civ that's very aggressive. You should start raiding enemies around end-Feudal, begin-Castle (before your enemies have walled themselves in), and sometimes even earlier on harder difficulties. This can really piss off people who prefer to play in a more easy-going way
Goth Defences suck (a lot), and I wouldn't recommend them for players who don't like to rush their way through the game (like me, for instance)
Goth Infantry is strong and plentyfull (with the mild exception of the Huskarl) , due to the rather rapid training process at the Barracks. Their Unique Unit, the Huskarl, is Great(!!!) versus Archers, so if you play Britons or other civs with a focus on Archers, you really don't want to have the Goths on as your foe, especially on Harder difficulties
BUT: - Playing economically or defencively with the Goths is sheer suicide
- Goths require early attacks, which is be a draining enterprise on you gold (and might slow down your advancement to Caste Age)
- Civilization with a Strong Cavalry or Infantery will be a pain in the ass (especially the Byzantines, the Mongols or the Spanish and, to a lesser extent, the Japanese and the Celts)
- Your main army WILL consist of Infantry, making Cavalry and Archers quite unrepresented. This makes your army more susceptible to Cavalry Archers and Monks (Significantl)
- Huskarls are only good versus Archers. They are horrible versus Infantry.
In the end, I wouldn't say that they suck, but I DO think they are the least versatile, and almost certainly, weakest Civ you can play in AoK.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted December 02, 2008 05:14 PM |
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Alright, goths might be an aggresive civ, which is a good thing, but raiding enemies around end-Feudal, begin-Castle might be hard since most other civs would usually have built some good defences by that stage, and if you're sending your army to enemies, then how exactly are you going to defend your base? It's the one flaw that this town has which makes it incredibly bad imo. The town is balanced out with some good troops like the Huskarl, which you said is great versus Archers, but then it is also not so good against any other things. Having Cavalry as a unique unit is always great, take the Spanish for example, but the goths unique unit is not as good as it could be, and although there are slightly worse unique units in other civilisations, they don't have the main disadvantage of lack of defence that the goths have.
I know I've mentioned that quite a bit, but if you are sending your army to battle and you have no defence then it is going to be rather hard for you to really defend your base and survive. If you can defeat the army that the goths send to you, then destroying their base shouldn't be too much of a problem.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 02, 2008 05:18 PM |
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If you defeat the army that the goths send to you you have build up an army yourself and thus slowed down you eco. Now go to offensive and face their army that they have built while attacking you. You're playing right into their hand by going along with their strategy.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted December 02, 2008 05:20 PM |
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Edited by william at 17:21, 02 Dec 2008.
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Perhaps so, but you will have the defences, they will not. They might be building more armies while they are attacking you, but they will have a very hard time getting through to your base if they do defeat your armies. If you manage to defeat their armies and being able to keep building more troops just to keep the numbers high, then you will stand a much higher chance than the Goths will. I guess you could consider it a No win situation really.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted December 02, 2008 05:22 PM |
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Quote:
Alright, goths might be an aggresive civ, which is a good thing, but raiding enemies around end-Feudal, begin-Castle might be hard since most other civs would usually have built some good defences by that stage, and if you're sending your army to enemies, then how exactly are you going to defend your base?
they simply don't. Goth NEED an Huge army, which includes and defence force. Castles are the Only Solid way of protection for the Goths, and they can't build Walls (but they have basic defencive structures like Pallisades and Outposts, which are quite unerrated imo)
Quote:
It's the one flaw that this town has which makes it incredibly bad imo.
I agree.
Quote:
The town is balanced out with some good troops like the Huskarl, which you said is great versus Archers, but then it is also not so good against any other things. Having Cavalry as a unique unit is always great, take the Spanish for example, but the goths unique unit is not as good as it could be, and although there are slightly worse unique units in other civilisations, they don't have the main disadvantage of lack of defence that the goths have.
I personally don't nessecairily see Cavalry UU's as the best though. It depends on your Civilization, your foes and the maps. Overall, I do agree that Conquistadors are among the best of them, but I consider Longbowmen, Samurai, Mangudai and Cataphracts as bigger threats.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted December 02, 2008 05:25 PM |
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@ Lexxan
I know that they need a huge army, but what happens when their army is defeated? They will have nothing to help them, unless they can whip up some quick little army, but even that won't help them much when they are versing other civilisations. They will never get through to an enemy base. Goths are best at lowering another armies numbers down. IMO, they are never one of the civilisations that will win a game on harder difficulties or versing good human opponents. It will just be too hard for them. Of course, a challenge is always good but if they lose their main army then that's basically it for them.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted December 02, 2008 05:26 PM |
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Edited by JoonasTo at 17:29, 02 Dec 2008.
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Exactly. That's why going on offensive with limited troops after his attack isn't a good idea. You can go and get your weakened army killed in their hands or you can use it to defend your expansions(since your home is already defended and he knows it that's where he'll strike) till you have superior eco or just defend it enough time to get your own harassment going. Because goth's lack the strong defense you can harass them pretty easy.
Samurai? Samurai? Samurai?
??????????????????????????
Explain.
Goths can win easy if they just keep the enemy expansions in check. Huskarls are great for that. The key for victory with them is not total destruction of the enemy base but rather slow and tedious exhaustion of their resources.
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