|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
posted March 09, 2007 04:35 PM |
|
|
|
after that .. you start puppeting and frezing .. not Ta ... and anyway after , mass haste and 2 dark spells the battle is almost over and probably the pit lords are long time dead .
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted March 09, 2007 04:42 PM |
|
|
The main thing that does the Wraith much more powerful then the Pit Lord is the damage.
As I said, Wraith's damage is 25-30, while Pit Lord's is 13-31. This huge different by itself does the largest difference between those two creatures.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 09, 2007 04:50 PM |
|
|
Quote:
after that .. you start puppeting and frezing .. not Ta ... and anyway after , mass haste and 2 dark spells the battle is almost over and probably the pit lords are long time dead .
That never happened in my games.. who would prefer to kill "worthless" pit lords instead of cerberi/nightmares? Those two are first to fall.. Actually, pitlords survive actually quite long. Puppet master is worthless is enemy has cleansing or - especially - units that can cleanse it without much problems. You end up wasting mana without any sense.
Quote:
The main thing that does the Wraith much more powerful then the Pit Lord is the damage.
As I said, Wraith's damage is 25-30, while Pit Lord's is 13-31. This huge different by itself does the largest difference between those two creatures.
Well, Wraight is in fact much better creature than Pit Lord. Doesn't need TA at all and weakness doesn't destroy it like it destroys pitlords. It just has terribly sucky specials.
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted March 10, 2007 11:09 AM |
|
|
The Pit Lords are weak even with Teleport Assault. Their primary weapon is thier spells, otherwise they do pathetic damage compared to the Wraith
And yes, you (as a Demon Lord) have more important things to do than to help some 'pathetic' creatures with TA. Without their spells, Pit Lords are crap.
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 10, 2007 12:33 PM |
|
|
yeah, because YOU said so? 
Simply admit that you don't know how to use them properly, maybe? 
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted March 10, 2007 12:35 PM |
|
|
Ok then, you cast TA on Pit Lords (even with it they're not that great) and the Necromancer casts Puppet Master on your Devils
Quote:
yeah, because YOU said so?
It's not only me
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 10, 2007 12:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Ok then, you cast TA on Pit Lords (even with it they're not that great) and the Necromancer casts Puppet Master on your Devils
And how not-casting TA is gonna help against puppet master?
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted March 10, 2007 12:51 PM |
|
|
Well, Puppet Master was an example that some better spells await you there than to help the below-average damage dealers Pit Lords. I mean, you can even cast TA on something really killing-machine, such as the Devils.
Definetely, you should NOT cast TA before the Pit Lords' spells are depleted at least, because their melee attack ain't great
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 10, 2007 12:55 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Well, Puppet Master was an example that some better spells await you there than to help the below-average damage dealers Pit Lords. I mean, you can even cast TA on something really killing-machine, such as the Devils.
They can handle well on their own..
Quote:
Definetely, you should NOT cast TA before the Pit Lords' spells are depleted at least, because their melee attack ain't great
Well, usually you don't have time to do it anyway (you need to cast power of speed, set mark of the damned, throw in some dark spells..). TA'ing pitlords comes in the very end, where the stacks are smaller and vorpal sword adds really a lot of damage, especially against very toughs creatures. You didn't think I start the battle with teleporting my pitlords, did you? Ofc they gate and cast spells while the demonlord is busy..
|
|
ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
|
|
posted March 10, 2007 12:56 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Well, usually you don't have time to do it anyway (you need to cast power of speed, set mark of the damned, throw in some dark spells..). TA'ing pitlords comes in the very end, where the stacks are smaller and vorpal sword adds really a lot of damage, especially against very toughs creatures. You didn't think I start the battle with teleporting my pitlords, did you? Ofc they gate and cast spells while the demonlord is busy..
That makes more sense
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 01:50 AM |
|
Edited by executor at 17:50, 12 Mar 2007.
|
By growth:
Lvl:
1. assasins(no ranged dmg, low hp - I use them to melee attack lizards' 'neighbours' - only use I found), but conscripts are short next to them.
2. war dancers(they die too heavily, and their mass att is not without retaliation - IMHO they suck)
3. minotaur guards (weak stats except hp, but I LOVE them anyway)
4. hard to say here.... berserkers?(they die heavily but at least they can attack without retaliating)
5. inquisitors(shooter with low dmg and high hp is a f*****d up idea, unless they had had decent spells I would have considered them crap of the game)
6. wrights(low hp and a walker without no retaliation - bad combo, but the only reason I prefer pit lords are their spells; dmg I admire)
7. and here a surprise for you all: emerald dragons(as for dancers - they die to quickly - least durable lvl 7, however bonies aren't much better)
By single unit(that's much easier):
1. conscript
2. plague zombie
3. squire
4. berserker
5. djinn sultan
6. wraith
7. spectral dragon
(wraith explained above, other obvious)
hope you wraith lovers won't kill me....
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 01:54 AM |
|
Edited by executor at 01:54, 12 Mar 2007.
|
|
One more thing. I can't understand those pointing shadow matriarchs and golems - look once again at these creatures, use them, and then say your choices once again.
|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 08:48 AM |
|
|
Quote:
7. and here a surprise for you all: emerald dragons(as for dancers - they die to quickly - least durable lvl 7, however bonies aren't much better)
omg !!!
One of the best lvl7 units.. turned to last place? Sure they don't have the biggest hp's, or the biggest damage... But they have the biggest initiative and also the highest speed. And with a Ranger on thier side you'll see no need for higher HPs or higher defense! We are watching here the most powerfull combination (troop lvl7 / hero) and you rank it last 
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 10:04 AM |
|
|
Usually with lucky attacks(maybe avenger) and immune to implosion/meteor shower no less!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 11:00 AM |
|
|
Yeah, their damage is good: If not the avenger, than it's the luck.. and easy access to light magic does wonders, plus acid attack which ain't too hard to get.
Their speed and initiative is top without any lightmagic help (still, haste is just cool to cast on them for the huge bonus)
Their survivability is sucky but fortunately the rangers' default def makes up for it a lot, and immunity to earth is a nice thing, since it's the most fearsome element. Oh, and there's always light magic to buff it further.
Overall, it's indeed a great unit and works great with a high-level ranger.. just as TowerLord says..
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 05:49 PM |
|
Edited by executor at 17:58, 12 Mar 2007.
|
Well if you examine it with hero then ok, but talking only about creature itself it's not so good. They really NEED buffing and ressurecting. I always do not take hero's abilities/spells into consideration when talking about creature's strength. And earth immunity is not very good thing. But it is only my opinion that they are weak.
BTW
1. Black dragons have the same speed.
2. Blackies, titans, magma dragons, and archangels are FAR better than emeralds, so how can you call them "one of the best 7th lvl creats" if half of the level is better by far? (of course unupgraded are not taken into consideration).
For me 3 spectrals are slightly better than 2 emeralds. Or let it be, they're equally worth. Note also that there's no crap creature in this level.
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 05:55 PM |
|
Edited by executor at 18:01, 12 Mar 2007.
|
One more thing Tower Lord. Most powerful combination (lv7 creat/hero)??
No way!! Titans with artificier(+init, morale, luck,( with ulti resist)) or magma dragons with rune of charge, just for most obvious examples.
Regards
PS: I note once more that's only my opinion(about emeralds being worst, not the above).
PS 2: Just to make you sure: in my 'voting' unit/dwelling costs were not taken into consideration.
|
|
TowerLord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 06:12 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Well if you examine it with hero then ok, but talking only about creature itself it's not so good. They really NEED buffing and ressurecting. I always do not take hero's abilities/spells into consideration when talking about creature's strength. And earth immunity is not very good thing. But it is only my opinion that they are weak.
BTW
1. Black dragons have the same speed.
2. Blackies, titans, magma dragons, and archangels are FAR better than emeralds, so how can you call them "one of the best 7th lvl creats" if half of the level is better by far? (of course unupgraded are not taken into consideration).
For me 3 spectrals are slightly better than 2 emeralds. Or let it be, they're equally worth. Note also that there's no crap creature in this level.
you are forgetting initiative and that's your mistake ... I am guessing you are a hmm3 player, who converted to hmm5 or something like that.
14 Initiative against 10 Initiative creature means virtually 40% more damage, and a very big chance of acting first , which is very important because you hit with your full stack while your opponent hits with his remainings ! If you get a lucky/ avenger strike the opposing stack will probably not even be there to retaliate.
Calling Titans, Magmas, Archangels much better than Emeralds is very misleading, and very HP/ DMG orriented. Titans, Archdevils and Archangels are surely worse than the mighty Emerlards, because they lack the ultra usefull acid/fire breath ! Magmas and Blackies are somewhere in the same league with the Emeralds, but I would still go for the Emeralds for the more offensive orrientation.
Comparing Spectral to Emeralds is a very bad joke !
|
|
executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 06:51 PM |
|
Edited by executor at 20:57, 17 Apr 2007.
|
But still funny . I DO take initiative into consideration, lets see:
(dmg vs 30 def enemy creature, initiative adjusted YOUR way):
1. 2 archangels - 127.05 dmg, 440 hp with 31 def, 8 speed. GREAT special.
2. 2 emeralds - 132.3 dmg(not much better) with acid breath(that's lets say +33%, so 176.4),but only 400 hp with 27 def, 9 speed(nearly no differance from 8), no other good specials  . They have the very first strike, okay here.
3. 2 titans - 110 dmg but RANGED, 380 hp with 30 def(better than emeralds), very good call lightning (if you have low att and/or don't want enemy to retaliate) Speed irrelevant here. Mind spell immunity. Splendid unit . Second to best with Magmies.
4. 2 blackies - 115 dmg(+ 33% breath it's 153,3), 480 hp with 30 def, magic immunity(except against warlock, but still big plus). 9 speed. Best in level.
5. 2 magmies - only 81 dmg(+ 33% breath it's 108), low init, speed 5, walker, but 560 hp with whopping 40 def and the ULTRA MIGHTY MAGMA SHIELD. One of the 3 best tanks in the game. Second to best with Titans.
6. 2 archdevils - 112.2 dmg, 398 hp with 29 def, but very good special. Speed 7 makes them less valuable.
7. 3 upg bonies - 99 dmg, cursing, 480 hp with 28 def, 7 speed............
Okay Tower Lord you won bonies are worse than emeralds
Archdevils on paar with emeralds - still WEAK .
You underestimate the value of hp and def, however. If you can't keep unit alive long it becomes useless. Especially if it dies in every battle.
And initiative adjusting your way is a little lie. You see: on average your emeralds will get the bonus(fighting archangels for instance) move after archangels 3rd move. This means:
emeralds attack(1)-archangels retaliate-archangels attack(1)-emeralds retaliate-emeralds attack(2)-archangels retaliate-archangels attack(2)-emeralds retaliate-emeralds attack(3)-archangels retaliate-archangels attack(3)-emeralds retaliate-emeralds attack(4)-archangels retaliate-emeralds attack(5)<- here they get bonus move.
This example was to show that units with high init do extensive use of it if (1)battle is longish,(2) when it's in the middle(both (1) and (2) should take place), so when THE'RE DEAD.(usually)
That's why I had to continuously ressurect emeralds, protect cerberi, heavily lost nightmares etc.
Emeralds are far better when it comes to duels, though. Then they may take place alongside titans and magmies.
To underline it, I DO NOT take heroes into consideration.
And I play HoMM 5 since it appeared, yet however I continue to play HoMM 3, which is on paar with 5.
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted March 12, 2007 07:32 PM |
|
|
Quote:
. 2 archangels - 127.05 dmg, 440 hp with 31 def, 8 speed. GREAT special.
2. 2 emeralds - 132.3 dmg(not much better) with acid breath(that's lets say +33%, so 176.4),but only 400 hp with 27 def, 9 speed(nearly no differance from 8), no other good specials . They have the very first strike, okay here.
3. 2 titans - 110 dmg but RANGED, 380 hp with 30 def(better than emeralds), very good call lightning (if you have low att and/or don't want enemy to retaliate) Speed irrelevant here. Mind spell immunity. Splendid unit . Second to best with Magmies.
4. 2 blackies - 115 dmg(+ 33% breath it's 153,3), 480 hp with 30 def, magic immunity(except against warlock, but sill big plus). 9 speed. Best in level.
5. 2 magmies - only 81 dmg(+ 33% breath it's 108), low init, speed 5, walker, but 560 hp with whopping 40 def and the ULTRA MIGHTY MAGMA SHIELD. One of the 3 best tanks in the game. Second to best with Titans.
6. 2 archdevils - 112.2 dmg, 398 hp with 29 def, but very good special. Speed 7 makes them less valuable.
7. 3 upg bonies - 99 dmg, cursing, 510 hp with 28 def, 7 speed............
Black Dragons have the best damage (45-70), Titans second (40-70).
How can you say that Elerald Dragons do more damage then both of them when they do only 33-57?
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
