|
|
Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
|
posted February 19, 2008 09:24 PM |
|
Edited by Vlaad at 21:29, 19 Feb 2008.
|
Quote:
It doesn't matter where the parents are from. If someone is born in the US, then they are Americans.
Also, the average person on the street wouldn't think of it this way, but legally, someone born in another country and becomes a naturalized citizen is also American. They are not even an immigrant, they are simply an American.
Legally? What does legislation have to do with it? Seriously though, I think I'll always feel a Serb with the American citizenship. I guess my children would be Americans of Serbian origin.  Quote:
Quote:
There is no need for Kosovo to be independent from Serbia, and I don’t understand why the White House helped them
Something that seems to have escaped this discussion is that every country in the world must take sides. They have no choice.
If the US or any other country sided with keeping Serbia/Kosovo unified, the same thing could be asked....why did they take that side instead of the other?
Even if they didn't take a stance they are still taking sides. They are siding with the status quo.
Yeah, it's become like Eurosong.  There's even a page where you can follow the latest developments. It is obvious that countries experiencing their own problems with separatist movements sided with Serbia (Russia, China, Spain, Romania, Greece, Cyprus, Bosnia, Sri Lanka). But I loved the statement made by the PM of New Zealand: "We will neither recognise nor not recognise." She was, like, "Who, me?!"  Quote:
So the US had no choice but to take a side. No matter what they decided one group would see them as friendly and the other group see them as unfriendly.
Not really, Gootch was much closer. The recognition of Kosovo's independence by the US and the EU is the logical conclusion of the NATO 1999 campaign. As for other American allies, this might be an interesting read. Quote:
EU BUSINESS (UK)Slovenian diplomat quits after report of US meddling in EU presidency - 29 January 2008, 19:33 CET(LJUBLJANA) - The Slovenian foreign ministry announced the resignation of a top Slovenian diplomat Tuesday who press reports claimed had taken orders from the United States about Slovenia's EU presidency.
The Foreign Ministry announced on its website that political director Mitja Drobnic had resigned and would be replaced by state secretary Matjaz Sinkovec during Slovenia's six-month term as EU president. Foreign Minister Dimitrij Rupel "has accepted the resignation of political director Mitja Drobnic", the ministry said in a statement. The resignation comes after a report in the daily newspaper Dnevnik last week which said that Slovenia had been taking orders from the US. According to the newspaper, which quoted an internal foreign ministry report, Drobnic had met in December with US Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Fried, who allegedly suggested to the Slovenian side what their priorities should be during the EU presidency. Fried encouraged Slovenia to be among the first to recognise the independence of the breakaway Serbian province of Kosovo, the newspaper claimed. Fried had also reportedly told Drobnic that there was "no need to worry" about the recognition of Kosovo's independence by all EU members, but that the most important thing was for an EU mission of police and lawyers to be sent to the province "despite critical positions of Russia and Serbia," the newspaper said.
____________
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted February 19, 2008 09:36 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Do I need to take the golden tongue here?Doubtful,now isn'it?
The dilemmas of life. 
Quote:
If USA is all badyy,badyy to Serbia,how good is Russia to Serbia?I mean what,they just wanted to delay Kosovo status.
Meh. Russians can at least locate us on a map.
Besides, it's a brotherly relation between Serbia and Russia. A Slavic thing Tough to understand.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
posted February 19, 2008 09:39 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 21:44, 19 Feb 2008.
|
"So the US had no choice but to take a side. No matter what they decided one group would see them as friendly and the other group see them as unfriendly"
Why,just US?They sided to for Kosovo so Russia the opposite sided with serbia.It is not that Russia supports Serbia much but because of their interests in global policy.
Edit:
Quote:
Quote:
Do I need to take the golden tongue here?Doubtful,now isn'it?
The dilemmas of life.
Quote:
If USA is all badyy,badyy to Serbia,how good is Russia to Serbia?I mean what,they just wanted to delay Kosovo status.
Meh. Russians can at least locate us on a map.
Besides, it's a brotherly relation between Serbia and Russia. A Slavic thing Tough to understand.
Why dilemma?Do I need here a golden tongue?Remember its only useful on important situations not such talks.I do not have to lose or win anything here.Right?
Slovenians are also slavs,Croatia and Poland is also slavic.Why do they have no bond?Its really hard to understand on my perspective of slavic heritage bonds.
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 19, 2008 09:52 PM |
|
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 11:15 AM |
|
|
why not unite them like america into slavic states,poland,russia,eastern eruope into one country,with equal politics..are californiaans detach themselfs from other americans?
and if kosvo deserves indepdency so does basque and bavaria should be own kindgdom,i wish we would descent to medival ages again,it was much less bloody and simple
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 12:00 PM |
|
|
You cant unite us like USA because we all consider ourselves a different nation, while in USA, everyone considers themselves "American". Well, at least most of ppl do.
____________
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 12:49 PM |
|
|
then break every province into a city-state. with own rule and goverment. be less headeches.
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 02:02 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Because Serbia is Slavic and Eastern Orthodox.
Exactly.
Quote:
why not unite them like america into slavic states,poland,russia,eastern eruope into one country,with equal politics..
Other countries wouldn't allow that. Russia tried that, more or less, when they liberated the Balkans from the Turks etcetera. But that wasn't seen as a good idea by Great Britain and other superpowers, so that was pretty changed at the Berlin congress.
Later, some sort of unification was there under the USSR, but we all know that didn't work out too well.
And Yasmiel is right, too.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 04:14 PM |
|
|
Quote:
then break every province into a city-state. with own rule and goverment. be less headeches.
That is exactly what is pretty much done now....
____________
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 08:45 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 20:59, 20 Feb 2008.
|
Quote:
Because Serbia is Slavic and Eastern Orthodox.
Why should we stay with serbia?We are not slavic,we are majority in our land and the damned thing is we are different population and not like Serbs.As for the thing,why get away to serbia?Why does not israel stays as a prone to palestine and arabs,can not you live together?SAME CASE AS OURS damn it.As for me,disscussion is not neaded for anti-Kosovo talks here.
Edit  For as russia as liberators,well they never liberatesd us but put us under Serb occupation so i would pleas to not speak such blasphemies here,PLEASE.Its not a SERBIA indepedence thread here,if you want a such thread make it.
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 08:56 PM |
|
|
Quote:
we arer majority in our land
See, that's the thing.
The land belongs to those who populate it, that's ok.
But then, why can't the Republic of Srpska, which is in Bosnia and populated mostly by Serbs, get independence? 
Scotland announced a referendum to get their independence will take place in 2010. That would be cool. Changes can be felt already.
If Scotland (and preferably the Republic of Srpska) become independent, I'll gladly recognize Kosovo
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 09:01 PM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 21:07, 20 Feb 2008.
|
Quote:
Quote:
we arer majority in our land
See, that's the thing.
The land belongs to those who populate it, that's ok.
But then, why can't the Republic of Srpska, which is in Bosnia and populated mostly by Serbs, get independence?
Scotland announced a referendum to get their independence will take place in 2010. That would be cool. Changes can be felt already.
If Scotland (and preferably the Republic of Srpska) become independent, I'll gladly recognize Kosovo
Well,our independence is legitime since we share no commons with slavs.
EDIT :That means we are not the same population and...... yeah,its worthless anyway.\
Edit2:
I'll gladly recognize Kosovo
Wow!You surprised me,I could never think of that!
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 09:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
we arer majority in our land
See, that's the thing.
The land belongs to those who populate it, that's ok.
But then, why can't the Republic of Srpska, which is in Bosnia and populated mostly by Serbs, get independence?
Scotland announced a referendum to get their independence will take place in 2010. That would be cool. Changes can be felt already.
If Scotland (and preferably the Republic of Srpska) become independent, I'll gladly recognize Kosovo
Well, i guess this would be next "split-up" if there is one in near future. But after the R.o.S gets independent, it would lead to another, (in that case probable) split up of Herzegovina. In that case Bosnia would remain the size of Luxembourg i guess.
All in all, it all leads to another decade of blinding the people with patriotism and temporary happiness and stuff instead of working up the economy and well-fare of citizens, no matter the nationality.
Remember, its easier to manipulate people during war and "independence war" times, like we all saw in recent past. And we really don't need any more of that (*insert preferred word here*).
____________
|
|
Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 09:54 PM |
|
|
Baklava, no school tomorrow?
____________
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 10:04 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Well,our independence is legitime since we share no commons with slavs.
I'm not sure it works that way, but never mind.
Quote:
Wow!You surprised me,I could never think of that!
Hey, I am reasonable after all The only thing I don't like is selective justice. I said it already, if every troubled region in the world was to get its independence, then it would actually be fair. One of our greatest medieval leaders, Stefan Nemanja, said that the land belongs to those who live upon it.
I just dislike the fact that the West keeps saying Kosovo's a "special case", just to keep their territories safe.
Quote:
But after the R.o.S gets independent, it would lead to another, (in that case probable) split up of Herzegovina.
Why would it? Bosnia&Herzegovina are mostly populated by Muslims, am I right? They live together. RoS is a republic where the majority are orthodox Serbs.
Quote:
All in all, it all leads to another decade of blinding the people with patriotism and temporary happiness and stuff instead of working up the economy and well-fare of citizens, no matter the nationality.
Well that's the way of the Balkans, I guess. We could've worked up the economy and well-fare if we stayed united, but when the break-up started, it can hardly be stopped until it reaches its end. Or until the EU just embraces all of us. It will stop at some point, don't worry. Besides, Croatia and Slovenia are pretty much done with all that now Serbia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Albania and now Kosovo, though, still have some possible border-changing ahead of them.
It will pass, as everything did. It just hopefully won't come to more wars. But cheap nationalism is ever present anyway.
Quote:
Baklava, no school tomorrow?
Aye. The one good thing about this whole affair
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 10:10 PM |
|
|
Quote:
it was much less bloody and simple
I'll leave that comment to stand on record.
Quote:
Why should we stay with serbia?j
I'm not saying that you should.
But all of this political fragmentation isn't good. Countries are becoming independent rather than working on their economy. Kosovo has a 60% unemployment rate.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 10:12 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
it was much less bloody and simple
I'll leave that comment to stand on record.
Quote:
Why should we stay with serbia?j
I'm not saying that you should.
But all of this political fragmentation isn't good. Countries are becoming independent rather than working on their economy. Kosovo has a 60% unemployment rate.
How would Serbia help us?
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 10:20 PM |
|
|
By having some sort of infrastructure. It's better than nothing. Why don't various Indian tribes secede from the US? Because they know they'd be worse off for it.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 10:45 PM |
|
|
Serbia not only never deserves to us a paetner or something because they have firtly lost the morale to own kosovo and secondly,you now that when you were opressed,none of us wants to have our opressors back as helpers.I should not beign with the same thing I posted before.We can never live or stay together,why?Use your mind and find it,its not hard.Well,do not forget as long as we stayed with them till now,we made no steps forward but now at least we are free to decide.
____________
"Science is not fun without cyanide"
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted February 20, 2008 11:06 PM |
|
Edited by baklava at 23:06, 20 Feb 2008.
|
We don't deserve to be your partners? About a half of Kosovo border is with Serbia... But never mind. It's not like anyone from here would go in a partnership with you anyway.
And we lost our morale to own Kosovo? On the contrary. We gained morale when we overthrew Milosevic. My people is not responsible for his crimes. After we've delivered Milosevic to the international tribunal for war criminals in Hague in 2000, that's for the last 8 years, the only ethnical crimes on Kosovo were against Serbs.
Sigh.
See, Seraph, we're not so different. We were both raised in tough economic conditions, in times of war and riots since our earliest age, fed from all sides with cheap propaganda and non-existent ideals, to grow to be obedient and do whatever they want us to do, in the endless cycle of dictatorship and nationalism one way or another.
The difference is, you chose to follow that path, and believe whatever they feed you with. And I chose to break out from it. I question them, I check things for myself, I decide myself who I'll love and who I'll hate. I will never say, "all Serbs are good and all Albanians evil". I know there are all kinds of people on both sides.
Cause, you see, kid, we're not each other's enemy here. It's our leaders who are our common enemies. But you refuse to even try to understand that. As do most of our countrymen. Cause it's far easier to view it all black and white.
And that's the sad thing.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
