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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: Official VCMI Thread
Thread: Official VCMI Thread This Popular Thread is 106 pages long: 1 10 20 30 ... 39 40 41 42 43 ... 50 60 70 80 90 100 106 · «PREV / NEXT»
felipe
felipe


Known Hero
Editing Heroes Without Limits
posted September 13, 2013 04:44 PM

Maybe this question was already made but...

VCMI will accept ERM editing?

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted September 13, 2013 04:50 PM

It was planned and some work has already been done. But it's impossible to tell more for now.
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Hobbit
Hobbit


Supreme Hero
posted September 14, 2013 03:07 AM

Behold - one of the most unbalanced towns ever made.
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted September 14, 2013 06:47 AM
Edited by Macron1 at 06:54, 14 Sep 2013.

Hobbit said:
Behold - one of the most unbalanced towns ever made.

Stats are to change, the main issue is lineup of common type units.
PS Not so unbalanced altrough. And 10+ same "unbalanced" towns will become balanced one day just by pure mathematics

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted September 14, 2013 08:07 AM

I still would like to see one good balanced towns than 10 unbalanced and random
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2013 06:42 PM
Edited by Macron1 at 18:45, 15 Sep 2013.

Warmonger said:
I still would like to see one good balanced towns than 10 unbalanced and random


I prefer 10 towns rather. Because it's easier to balance and polish existing towns, than wait for impossible thing to happen.
Because balanced town is a total myth. Even HOTA crew made Cove unbalanced (at my sight, for single player at least) with a lot of testing and balancing - it is stronger than any standard castle, and has best first levels units for rush.
For example, 9 classic towns are totally unbalanced, especially for multiplayer. That's why MP players ban a hell lot of things.
So there is no balance for multiplayer and single player at one time.
Why my town is unbalanced, for example?
It has pretty medium parameters.
If compared to standard towns (15 attack of pixies don't count, it's typing), it's units weaker, that some units from other towns.
Maybe leviathan is a bit stronger by parameters, but it has high price and non-outstanding abilities.

And another thing. If I take 5 towns with common units parameters made by me, this town will be at same level, so there will be no disbalance at all.

PS By the way I proposed in VCMI forums the easy to make feature of turning off standard towns by adding "special":true val to faction. So if set, faction will not be in choice of towns, and will not appear as random generated town, but units and town will stay for compatibility with maps.
Ivan Sav said, that this feature is not wanted, and it will not be made by any of team now.
Do VCMI users also think that selective turning off standard factions is a stoopid non-needed thing?

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Hobbit
Hobbit


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2013 07:12 PM

Quote:
Even HOTA crew made Cove unbalanced (at my sight, for single player at least) with a lot of testing and balancing - it is stronger than any standard castle, and has best first levels units for rush.
[...]
It has pretty medium parameters.
If compared to standard towns (15 attack of pixies don't count, it's typing), it's units weaker, that some units from other towns.

Well, our opinions differ then.

Sorry, I want to have one well-made and PLAYABLE town, not bunch of "give me whatever units you want and I'll make them much stronger and more expensive than Archangels" towns. Especially when more and more towns means no balance at all.
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2013 07:15 PM
Edited by Macron1 at 19:28, 15 Sep 2013.

Hobbit said:
"give me whatever units you want and I'll make them much stronger and more expensive than Archangels" towns. Especially when more and more towns means no balance at all.


Archangels (droids of Ancients), I wonder why they ever have 300 hit points
And there are already some units which cost more than archangels and have 2-4 times more hitpoints. Azure dragons, for example.

Balance is possible altrough as only one thing - when all units in all towns have same parameters and only few abilities. Like in some Real-time strategies. And differ only by face view.
But who wants to play THIS balance?
In life there are many things that lot weaker or stronger. Why it couldn't be so for towns? There are weak and strong towns. When you start random map, you don't know what opponents and where will be on map. So there is some strategy in deciding, whom to fight first, and whom to leave for dinner.
For example, in my draft town units parameters there is a thing, that low level units have big damage, but weak health. So they will be more good at start and allow rush, but when enemy builds units of 4-7 levels, this faction will start to loose it's feature.

PS So what you think about turning off standard towns?

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 15, 2013 07:26 PM

Macron1 said:
And there are already some units which cost more than archangels and have 2-4 times more hitpoints. Azure dragons, for example.

But they can't show on the map unless map maker wants, coz they belong to a special tier (10). That's not a fair comparison
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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted September 15, 2013 07:33 PM

You know Macron, you can't make towns just for yourself. You have to design them so other people want to play them.
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2013 07:38 PM
Edited by Macron1 at 19:39, 15 Sep 2013.

Warmonger said:
You know Macron, you can't make towns just for yourself. You have to design them so other people want to play them.

If I want to play my town, that there will be at least few people who will want to play it too. It's a law of long tail.
As I make town that I want, it means that there will be other, who will want it.

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IvanSav
IvanSav


Adventuring Hero
posted September 15, 2013 07:49 PM

Do you know that "designing a town" means much more than finding several images and writing some config files?
Quote:
Ivan Sav said, that this feature is not wanted, and it will not be made by any of team now.

Please, stop twisting my (and everyone else) words. My exact quote on this topic was:
"I am not interested in implementing this feature because it is much more complex than it looks like."

FYI - it was never confirmed that (Arch)angels are "droids of the Ancients" either. Jumping to conclusions again?


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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 15, 2013 08:26 PM

Macron1 said:
Warmonger said:
You know Macron, you can't make towns just for yourself. You have to design them so other people want to play them.

If I want to play my town, that there will be at least few people who will want to play it too. It's a law of long tail.
As I make town that I want, it means that there will be other, who will want it.

Create your own Religion, surely will be at least few people who will want to believe it too
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2013 08:27 PM
Edited by Macron1 at 20:39, 15 Sep 2013.

IvanSav said:
Do you know that "designing a town" means much more than finding several images and writing some config files?


I'm not designing new towns, I'm making them.
What is to create a new town, if not to prepare graphics and config?

IvanSav said:

Quote:
Ivan Sav said, that this feature is not wanted, and it will not be made by any of team now.

Please, stop twisting my (and everyone else) words. My exact quote on this topic was:
"I am not interested in implementing this feature because it is much more complex than it looks like."

FYI - it was never confirmed that (Arch)angels are "droids of the Ancients" either. Jumping to conclusions again?



And other part of it was "And I'm almost sure that everyone in vcmi team shares my opinion on this subject. "
What's the difference to my phrase "Ivan Sav said, that this feature is not wanted, and it will not be made by any of team now."?

So if feature is too complex, it will not be implemented?

And you answered on my
"Existing creatures and objects written on maps will stay. I propose to only not generate new creatures/towns on map when random/new week."
Is it too complex to check town's ID, and exclude it from generation?

http://forum.vcmi.eu/viewtopic.php?t=751

PS There was some interview with story writer for HMM3 on DF2. I can't find it now.
If it was not confirmed, it  doesn't mean it's not so.

Storm-Giant said:
Macron1 said:
Create your own Religion, surely will be at least few people who will want to believe it too

I'm not that kind of people.

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Warmonger
Warmonger


Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
posted September 15, 2013 08:41 PM

Macron, if everybody says that you are wrong, you probably are. Get over it, stop arguing and start listening.
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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 15, 2013 08:43 PM
Edited by Storm-Giant at 20:43, 15 Sep 2013.

Macron1 said:
Storm-Giant said:
Create your own Religion, surely will be at least few people who will want to believe it too

What's so hard in creating religion?

The difficult relies not on creating it, but keeping it alive and kicking

But getting back on the subject - I also think making towns it's not just throwing some units and graphics here and there - you must also keep quality, make sure the line up have some variety (between shooters, melee units, etc...) and so on so it doesn't end like a copy of another existing castle, just with different graphics (that's boring).

Last but least, a town also requires heroes (with specialties!), adv map buildings, etc...
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2013 08:52 PM
Edited by Macron1 at 20:54, 15 Sep 2013.

Storm-Giant said:
Last but least, a town also requires heroes (with specialties!), adv map buildings, etc...


If every town will have 16 heroes, just imagine, how hard will be to get needed type
In VCMI town doesn't need dwellings and heroes. They can be not used.
PS If we discussing my concrete mod on Cove, that's not the point, map dwellings are here.

Warmonger said:
Macron, if everybody says that you are wrong, you probably are. Get over it, stop arguing and start listening.


Three people are not everybody
And I have my own opinion, quantity of people critizing me don't fright me

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Hobbit
Hobbit


Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2013 10:30 PM

Quote:
What is to create a new town, if not to prepare graphics and config?

Creating town as a whole.

You see, when you have only graphics and config, you get something like Heroes 5 or Heroes 6 - maybe impressive, but not really addicting. That's why e.g. HotA Cove wasn't released as alpha - when it got leaked, it was nice to look at, but that was about it.

So if you make more and more towns who have some nice graphics (although most of yours don't have any appealing and original graphics in my opinion ), but you don't really think about designing them in that way or another (believe me, I'm still working on VCMI Forge stats because I want them to be as original as possible), then you HAVE to expect some people to be annoyed of your senseless "productiveness". And your role is to think about what you're doing wrong.

Quote:
If every town will have 16 heroes, just imagine, how hard will be to get needed type

I have no idea what you're talking about - I can only assume you that every town DOES have 16 heroes, or maybe even more if we count campaign ones. That's how HoMM3 is designed. Changing it is okay unless you're trying to change the whole gameplay, but I'm afraid that's not the point of your multiple towns.

Besides, I want to ask you: when you already "create" some new town, do you really play it more than one or two times?

Quote:
In VCMI town doesn't need dwellings and heroes. They can be not used.

What.
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Macron1
Macron1


Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2013 11:22 PM

Hobbit said:
then you HAVE to expect some people to be annoyed of your senseless "productiveness". And your role is to think about what you're doing wrong.


I don't do something wrong, it's some people problems.
I don't spam forums by my new towns, don't cry “somebody play them”. I'm just from time to time want to show some screenshot. What is angering these people? That they want ideal town, made by somebody, and not flawed town, existing in reality?
Or that they spend years of life, trying to create some ideal town, and there goes I, that created town by several hours/days. Why It bothers them? If they want to spend their life creating town for years, it's their decision, not mine. I only want to play, not to go to some Hall Of Fame or be the best of the best.
What doesn't give them rest, is that somebody may enjoy gaming with limitless custom variations, not some orthodox fixed selection, nailed to the floor and praised by some “majority”.


Quote:
I have no idea what you're talking about - I can only assume you that every town DOES have 16 heroes, or maybe even more if we count campaign ones. That's how HoMM3 is designed. Changing it is okay unless you're trying to change the whole gameplay, but I'm afraid that's not the point of your multiple towns.


Multiple towns point is to combine existing units of similar race/religion/mythology/century into factions, that can represent some unity in history/fantasy.
I see no need to create 16 heroes for every faction. For most of them I create about 2 heroes, or not create any.
First barrier is a lack of icons for heroes (it requires a lot of time to find them)
Second and most barrier - just imagine, that at one time there are 9 classic factions and 20 new factions. If they all will have 16 heroes, it will be about 464 heroes. What if you want necromancer, for example, but there some weeks will roll out only some dark elves or techincs?
2-3 heroes are enough for most factions. You know, on Earth there are nations like Russia, USA, Germany etc, that have millions of people and can produce thousands  of heroes. And there some liliput countries that have one hero over centuries.
So goes in Heroes 3 play world. There will be not central factions (imagine faction of 2-4 towns in these world only). Why they will have 16 heroes (as Erathia do)? This will be nonsence.


Quote:

Besides, I want to ask you: when you already "create" some new town, do you really play it more than one or two times?


There are limitations of AI now, so yes, most towns I play now for 1-2 times. Because I still have a lot of work to do.
And I have towns that are made only for random map. Like Dragon Peak town. They are not meant to play at all, and dont even have heroes. Their purpose is to be found on random map while exploring.
So do some minor factions, comprosed of some repaints etc. Their purpose is to not be played, but to be found on map, be conquered and used in next battles.


Quote:

What.


I have towns that don't have dwellings on map or heroes. If there is no hero, on start free standard hero is picked. Or free heroes with priority written in “tavern” are hired.
PS Someday I may found dwellings DEFs or create heroes. But is no need to do this technically.

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Hobbit
Hobbit


Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2013 11:43 PM

Quote:
I don't do something wrong

With that assumption you'll go nowhere.

Quote:
I don't spam forums by my new towns, don't cry “somebody play them”. I'm just from time to time want to show some screenshot. What is angering these people? That they want ideal town, made by somebody, and not flawed town, existing in reality?
Or that they spend years of life, trying to create some ideal town, and there goes I, that created town by several hours/days.

Do you really think that people will either be happy about your screenshots or just won't say anything? If so, then let me explain it to you: if I see something that I don't like due to this or that, I can say what's wrong with it - even if it's not made for me to play. After all you're trying to show something that you're proud of, don't you? Because if not, then why do you show it in the first place?

And yes, I am not satisfied of the fact people spend years of life trying to create some good town and you are using their work just to make several bad towns.

Quote:
Multiple towns point is to combine existing units of similar race/religion/mythology/century into factions, that can represent some unity in history/fantasy.

Well, I thought that towns in Heroes 3 are created so that people can PLAY THEM. But maybe I'm wrong.

Quote:
just imagine, that at one time there are 9 classic factions and 20 new factions. If they all will have 16 heroes, it will be about 464 heroes. What if you want necromancer, for example, but there some weeks will roll out only some dark elves or techincs?

I'd quit such game rather quickly - because if there are 20 new factions and each one has 2 or 3 heroes, then I'm pretty sure this game would be one of the worst ever.

Sorry, but quality matters. If you don't bother to make all 16 heroes for one town, then the whole faction is for me pointless.

Quote:
You know, on Earth there are nations like Russia, USA, Germany etc, that have millions of people and can produce thousands  of heroes. And there some liliput countries that have one hero over centuries.

That's why we play video games.

You can't compare fantasy games to the real world in such manner. After all, our heroes do not fight with Armageddon's Blade and Sword of Frost just to blow up entire planet.

Quote:
And I have towns that are made only for random map. Like Dragon Peak town. They are not meant to play at all, and dont even have heroes. Their purpose is to be found on random map while exploring.

Actually I believe that Dragon Peak town is made just for testing purposes - to show that somehow new towns can be created in ERA.
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