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Heroes Community > Heroes 6 - The New Beginning > Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~
Thread: ~ Heroes 6 - Discussion thread ~ This Super Thread is 525 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 ... 110 220 330 440 ... 521 522 523 524 525 · «PREV / NEXT»
Dexter
Dexter


Known Hero
posted September 14, 2010 05:49 PM

I would consider the Dragon Knights to be more of an order combining heroes than a full-fledged faction. There was a scenario in Heroes V where you followed the story of a Haven hero who wanted to become a dragon knight.

And as for the Faceless, wouldn't expect them to be a faction either. Their a counterpart for the Angels, and obviously Angels don't form a faction either, at least not during the period that Heroes VI centers around.

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 15, 2010 01:12 AM

An interesting expansion might feature Dragon Knights as an alternate Haven, where the base units are the same but their upgrades are different (with the exception of Griffins and Angels, of course).  I could see that being a viable means of implementing a "secondary upgrade" system, in fact: you have your Pikemen, and then you have your Inquisitors (Haven), and then you have your Dragoons (Dragon Knight).  Especially for factions like Haven where the difference is stark between base and upgraded units, the foundation is there for an "alternate path", so to speak.

You could do the same thing with other factions, I'm sure; but the Haven units are the best example of how it might be done.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 15, 2010 08:19 AM

Quote:
@Lexxan: I don't think a Dragon Knight will be a faction, I mean not your normal faction. If you read carefully they are supposed to be some-uber-elite chosen taken from many other races and I think they are consider to be very powerful. Even if they are present I don't think they will come as your normal faction, maybe an uber-campaign-only faction. CMIIW, I think there are 2 known Dragon Knights so far: Arantir (a Necromancer) and Tieru (an Elven Druid). Tieru was hinted when the event Biara killed Tieru in one of the original HV's campaign where Biara said "It is so rare that someone killed a Dragon Knight and don't suffer severe punishment" (Not exactly like that but I think that is the general idea). Also, I heard about Arantir being a Dragon Knight in DM but can't remember in which part of the story. My 2 cents though

I don't remember Arantir belonging to the Dragon Knights - though I completed DM 3 times but I might just not have paid attention In the times of Heroes 5, there were only 3 known Dragon Knights : Tieru, Aidan (Godric's brother) and the woman who talks in the introduction of Heroes Kingdom (though we don't know her name).

Quote:
An interesting expansion might feature Dragon Knights as an alternate Haven

The Dragon Knights are NOT belonging to a faction.

1) It's a secret order and noone knows where they hide, so making them join Haven just for the sake of making upgrades is a bad idea.
2) They're only here to fight against Demons so it would be utterly stupid if they all of sudden started bashing on Sylvan Elves or even other Haven players
3) It's too important to just become a mere upgrade of a faction ... it's as if you were saying the Swiss Guards (Vatican) should belong to the Italian Army.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 15, 2010 10:20 AM

I once made a Dragon knight faction mixed with Dark elves (theme was good/light + evil/dark = balance/symbiosis) that were led by Raelag to the ICTC.
Main idea was that it was set in H6 game that was set in apocalyptic Ashan where demons were stronger then ever and that the Dragon Knights would be the last stand against Urgash and be the ones who awaken Asha. The creatures were composed of a few dark elves, different draconic creatures and some humans, elves and orcs.'
But I think that if they made a Dragon knight town (which I dont find likely for H6 atleast) they should focus a 100% on dragons.
Something like this.
Core: Hatchling, Drakonid, Flamescale (throws blue fireballs)
Elite: Chosen (blind brothers who have been blessed by dragons), Drakobeast (think big cerberus + dragon), Templar (dragon knights who have been blessed by dragons)
Champion: Ascendant (Asha follower that has ascended to be some dragon/humanoid hybrid)

In fact, I am probably going to remake that town some time with 100% dragons and ascendance to dragoness.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Elvin
Elvin


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
posted September 15, 2010 11:00 AM

Dragon focus? Sounds cheesy and out of place.

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 15, 2010 11:09 AM

yeah that would be a challenge to make make it to chessy so I would suggest to make a town with no real dragons, no dragons that we have seen in previous games but I have thought a bit about this and a theme could be that the humanoid blind brothers/dragon knights have "ascended" to become dragonkin.
So there would be more original draconic beasts and dragon/humanoid hybrids that we have never seen before and not the traditional boring dragons that we see all the time plus I would not want it to be "Improved Haven"...
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted September 15, 2010 02:50 PM

From the article Elvin posted in the news thread:

About the different kind of terrains, up to now we could only see jungle (the one you can see at the demo pictures). Others have been already confirmed too, like plains (in two flavours, summer and autumn), lava, wastelands (native to Necrópolis) and underground. Each faction will have a unique native terrain.

I suspected it beforehand that it is the jungle we've seen on the pictures and not the summer plains, even though the Haven is there. Either it really is the terrain of Haven, either they only put the Haven there for the demo, I tend to think the latter is the case.

But as someone pointed it out a while ago, on one of the pictures you can see those walls with snake symbols, plus the water snake boss appearing in the same environment. It can only mean one thing, this is Naga territory... Or at least not exactly Haven/Sylvan/Academy territory.

I know it's still a lot of speculation, but it wouldn't make sense to give the jungle to Academy or Sylvan if they are making hints like that. Also, if one of the plains is given to Sylvan, what happens to the Treants? I know it is far-fetched, but Elves in Disciples III being in an autumn set might just mean H6 does not want to copy that. The jungle faction can take over some of the aspects of the Rampart-Sylvan town from the past, i.e. summoning.

So I'm leaning towards Elves being out, and the tossup between Academy & Dungeon can only be decided when we find out whether the two plains are just graphical purposes and underground gets a faction or not. But if it's Academy (or Stronghold for that matter), would the water snake be the closest thing to a dragon unit initially available in a town? Did they really take all those "too many dragons in H5" complaints in consideration?

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 15, 2010 05:27 PM
Edited by Aosaw at 17:29, 15 Sep 2010.

Quote:
The Dragon Knights are NOT belonging to a faction.

1) It's a secret order and noone knows where they hide, so making them join Haven just for the sake of making upgrades is a bad idea.
2) They're only here to fight against Demons so it would be utterly stupid if they all of sudden started bashing on Sylvan Elves or even other Haven players
3) It's too important to just become a mere upgrade of a faction ... it's as if you were saying the Swiss Guards (Vatican) should belong to the Italian Army.


Whoa.  Cool it, dude.  I'm just saying, it would be an interesting mechanism.  It would be a neat way to justify alternate upgrades, and I would prefer forcing the player to choose which branch of his town's development he's going to pursue over some arbitrary "You can also choose this, just 'cause!" lack of sense.

As I said, the same mechanism could be used for any of the factions (apart from Inferno, I suppose).  In a campaign, it would be used very purposefully - you wouldn't have Dragon Knights fighting elves and humans, for instance, if the focus of the campaign was to fight demons.  In single- or multiplayer maps, however, the "story" doesn't have to matter, and it would add an interesting option to give the existing factions a little bit more to play with.

EDIT:  On the subject of terrain - has it been confirmed that the terrains listed there are the only terrain types?

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted September 15, 2010 06:02 PM

Quote:
EDIT:  On the subject of terrain - has it been confirmed that the terrains listed there are the only terrain types?


Yes it has. Snow and desert are missing.

Ubi posted an item about the story on Facebook, the most interesting part:

The 5 campaigns (1 per faction) stage the stories of human heroes from the Holy Falcon Empire (Haven), all members of the same family. They are the sons and daughters of the powerful Duke of the Griffin Duchy.

So that should put a rest to speculation about the half-brother being half-naga or whatever. They are all humans, just that all of them are leading a different faction. Unless they come up with another human-based faction, at least one of them will be leading a different race.


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Lexxan
Lexxan


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
posted September 15, 2010 11:23 PM
Edited by Lexxan at 23:28, 15 Sep 2010.

Quote:
Dragon focus? Sounds cheesy and out of place.
If they can focus an entire faction on fricking DARK ELVES or DWARVES, a "Dragon Faction" seems quite plausible.

And by I that I don't mean a line up of Dragon Hatchling, Dragonoid, Dragon rider, etc. More of a Dragon-Centric Alternative Humanoid Society (Persian? Scandinavian? Asian? Eastern European? Ancient Greek?), which uses Dragons as it's artwork (opposed to the Falcons of the Human Empire)

I've made a Dragon Knights factor for ICTC 4, and it turned out to be quite varied despite ~HEAVY~ Dragon motives. I'll most a link asap (ETA: Here), so you can check it out (/shameless self-advertizing) and reconsider your opinions about the Dragon Knights being a stupid concept for a faction.

At least DKs is better than having 6 effing Dwarves + 1 Dragon as a faction, that's for sure :rolleyes

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Demonge
Demonge


Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
posted September 16, 2010 10:05 AM

Quote:
Well, I do think the description is clearly meant to say they are all the same race from Haven, but maybe that's just me.


At first my conclusion was the same as you Danny, yet it is said they are sons and daughters of the DUKE.
That means their FATHER is human.
Literally, it is not written they are all sons/daughters of the same mother...
____________
Wait a second! I'm not big-boned, I'm just fat!

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted September 16, 2010 11:31 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Well, I do think the description is clearly meant to say they are all the same race from Haven, but maybe that's just me.


At first my conclusion was the same as you Danny, yet it is said they are sons and daughters of the DUKE.
That means their FATHER is human.
Literally, it is not written they are all sons/daughters of the same mother...


We already knew one of them has a different mother, but it still says "human heroes" and I don't think a half-dwarf, half-dark elf or a half-naga would qualify. To me it says everyone is a regular Haven-dweller but they end up with other factions, unlike H5 where the factions had their own representatives participating.

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Nelgirith
Nelgirith


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted September 16, 2010 01:04 PM

Quote:
Literally, it is not written they are all sons/daughters of the same mother...

Based on the very first Gamestar preview we know that :
- Anton, Anastasia and Kiril are real brothers/sisters (not half)
- there's another sister
- there's a half-brother


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Pahomije
Pahomije


Hired Hero
posted September 16, 2010 01:22 PM

Being a human hero doesn't mean that he/she can't ally with a different race/faction and lead its army in a campaign (keep in mind these are for campaign/lore purposes and the heroes needn't be of the same race, hence the human Inferno hero).
However, while I'd love to see the Naga as the 5th faction, it still seems a little far fetched. I also agree that a half-human hero theory is viable, so a half-elf or a half-dwarf are plausible. Actually, do we even know if different races can mix? Demon Sovereign has a child with a human woman (if he's truly a demon, of course)? If humans and elves, and humans and dwarves can mix, than perhaps humans and nagas can as well. Orcs are, after all, humans injected with demon blood.
If we keep the "human only" concept for a faction hero, only 2 options are viable and those are wizards and free cities (which I would also like to see appear).
____________

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Danny
Danny


Famous Hero
posted September 16, 2010 02:23 PM

Quote:
Being a human hero doesn't mean that he/she can't ally with a different race/faction and lead its army in a campaign (keep in mind these are for campaign/lore purposes and the heroes needn't be of the same race, hence the human Inferno hero).
However, while I'd love to see the Naga as the 5th faction, it still seems a little far fetched. I also agree that a half-human hero theory is viable, so a half-elf or a half-dwarf are plausible. Actually, do we even know if different races can mix? Demon Sovereign has a child with a human woman (if he's truly a demon, of course)? If humans and elves, and humans and dwarves can mix, than perhaps humans and nagas can as well. Orcs are, after all, humans injected with demon blood.
If we keep the "human only" concept for a faction hero, only 2 options are viable and those are wizards and free cities (which I would also like to see appear).


My whole point was that the heroes being all human makes the speculation irrelevant about them having to be members of other races to get non-human factions in the game, or about humans being able to mix with other races. Ubi is just making sure we're not able to guess the remaining factions based on stuff like that. The 5th brother can be leading nagas or beast men, and at the same time it's no guarantee Academy is included only because it's human-based.

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Miru
Miru


Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
posted September 17, 2010 12:47 AM

Whoah, who said there was an unknown faction? Me, page 1:
Quote:
"[The 4rth] a known faction from previous Heroes.
The 5th faction will be an original faction."

Original Vs Known.. Well original are Knight (Haven), Barbarian (Stronghold), Sorceress (Sylvan), and Warlock (Dungeon). Where as the previous ones not original are Wizard (Academy), Necromancer (Necropolis), Inferno, Fortress - Swamp (Naga?), and Fortress - Dwarves.

Meaning either I am over-analyzing or Sylvan OR Dungeon will be in the core. Seeing how little sense Dungeon makes without Sylvan, that strongly suggests that dungeon will come in in an expansion. The last faction is probably Academy.


Lava - Inferno
Jungle - Sylvan
Summer plains - Haven
Autumn plains - ?
Wastelands - Undead

Either summer and autumn are the same thing (just different visually), or the last faction fits on autumn. Or perhaps they intend on having seasonal maps, meaning no more snow next to jungle, and have more terrains.
____________
I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.

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radar
radar


Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
posted September 17, 2010 01:21 AM

I somehow can't imagine Elves being in Jungle, I'd rather see Haven - autumn plains, Sylvan - summer plains.

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SwampLord
SwampLord


Supreme Hero
Lord of the Swamp
posted September 17, 2010 03:20 AM

Everything looks great so far, except for the 3 non-gold resources.

I really don't agree with that, it'll definitely cut back on faction diversity. Given as how there doesn't seem to be much support for the new system at all I don't really know why they're sticking with it. Innovation is good, but if such a fundamental concept of the game isn't broken, don't fix it.
____________
They can take my swamp, they can take my town, but they will never take my FREEDOM!

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Aosaw
Aosaw


Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
posted September 17, 2010 07:39 AM

They have to stick with it to find out if it really works the way they think it will - and I think that, given that they've stuck with it so far, it probably does.

The Broke/Fix It adage does apply here, but only insofar as we assume the current system isn't broken.  It may be that reducing the number of resources makes the gameplay run much smoother and enhances the strategy elements, and then we'll all be wondering what we ever wanted with those "extraneous" resources.

Or maybe we won't.  But apparently the folks at Black Hole and Ubisoft think this new way of looking at things is such a good idea that they've kept it up for the past several years of development.  I think that says something.

Personally, I was always annoyed when I couldn't upgrade my mage guild because I was one gem short of the quota and didn't own a gem mine.  That element of frustration didn't add anything to my experience, and in fact it made me want to go play something else - so if getting rid of gems and sulfur and mercury solves that problem for me, then I'm fine with it.

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MattII
MattII


Legendary Hero
posted September 17, 2010 09:07 AM

This new instalment is a really an in name only sequel, I mean they've changed the resource system, they changed the town build system and they've changed the hero level-up system, this just isn't going to be a sequel, it's going to be a rewrite.

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