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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 10:30 AM |
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Quote: This new instalment is a really an in name only sequel, I mean they've changed the resource system, they changed the town build system and they've changed the hero level-up system, this just isn't going to be a sequel, it's going to be a rewrite.
As much as I usually enjoy reading your posts, that one is purely made of whine (and not of win ).
If you really watch at what changed from one episod to the next, then the same could be said from every previous installment. Only H2 would be a true sequel to H1 as from each other episod to the next, there were quite some MAJOR changes.
H3 wasn't a true sequel to H2 since H3 :
- added Tier 7 creatures,
- added new kinds of heroes (might and magic),
- added new skills,
- revamped the magic system,
- added 4 new factions and tons of creatures,
- added new town buildings,
- replaced the Ultimate Artifact with the Grail,
- added upgrade for every creature.
H4 wasn't a true sequel to H3 since H4 :
- changed the creatures tiering,
- removed the creatures upgrades
- totally revamped each faction,
- revamped the magic system (again),
- totally revamped the skill system by adding tons of skills and 2 more levels above expert,
- added heroes on battlefield,
- added caravans,
- added lots of adventure maps buildings
H5 wasn't a true sequel to H4 since H5 :
- removed one of the might or magic heroes per faction,
- added double creature upgrades,
- removed the heroes from the battlefield,
- went back to the H3 creatures tiering,
- revamped town development (by tiering it)
- changed the combat system (ATB bar)
- revamped the skill system
- added racial skilltrees
- added Ultimate skills
- introduced a faction that couldn't use magic
Imo it is important that a game doesn't stagnate from one episod to the next, else it would be pointless to create a sequel and they might as well just make add-ons
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Demonge
Known Hero
more than meets the eyes
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posted September 17, 2010 10:46 AM |
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Edited by Demonge at 10:48, 17 Sep 2010.
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The new info about dinasty is really interesting.
We now know for sure Sveltana won't be playable: it is not one of the 5 siblings. It is the great-aunt only. Yet she's a Necromancer, so she might by the teacher of Anastasya.
The murdered Duke is not Pavel, but Slava. It is strange we never heard of him before, but why not?
What I can add is that the girl we see on the picture next to Anton and Kiril is not Sveltana. She must therefore be Anastasya?
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Wait a second! I'm not big-boned, I'm just fat!
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted September 17, 2010 10:50 AM |
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Svetlana (I refuse to maim her name) might still be a playable character, just not the main one.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 10:50 AM |
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Edited by Danny at 10:51, 17 Sep 2010.
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Yeah it's confusing, they added the grandfather to the story too. Sveltana might be the tutorial or the prologue map. The item says he has to educate Haven-child, but in the demo she's still very much a necromancer.
So I guess the two factions will be revealed like this, via Facebook, sometime in the hopefully near future...
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted September 17, 2010 10:54 AM |
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Well, I don't know who these Campaign heroes, right are (namewise), but the three in the middle are a Knight, a Demon Lord and a Necromancer. The hooded figure to the left could be a Ranger or even an Assassin...(something Elf-related) the etherial figure to the left it interesting. He must be the Half-brother and looks... like a spirit of sorts...?
A Ghost Faction, perhaps?
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 10:59 AM |
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It was already established the 5 people on the pic are the same 5 people revealed so far. The ghost is their father and the one on the right is Sveltana, the Facebook item mentions she's in the trailer.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 11:04 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:05, 17 Sep 2010.
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Quote: If you really watch at what changed from one episod to the next, then the same could be said from every previous installment. Only H2 would be a true sequel to H1 as from each other episod to the next, there were quite some MAJOR changes.
Not as major as stripping us of half the resources, and completely changing the way in which towns are built, which is what they're doing now.
Quote: Imo it is important that a game doesn't stagnate from one episod to the next, else it would be pointless to create a sequel and they might as well just make add-ons
Innovation is fine, scrapping half the game mechanics for, excuse the expression, sh*ts and giggles, is not. If you're going to make a sequel make a sequel, if you're going to make a new game give it a different name.
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 11:11 AM |
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Quote:
Quote: If you really watch at what changed from one episod to the next, then the same could be said from every previous installment. Only H2 would be a true sequel to H1 as from each other episod to the next, there were quite some MAJOR changes.
Not as major as stripping us of half the resources, and completely changing the way in which towns are built, which is what they're doing now.
Quote: Imo it is important that a game doesn't stagnate from one episod to the next, else it would be pointless to create a sequel and they might as well just make add-ons
Innovation is fine, scrapping half the game mechanics for, excuse the expression, sh*ts and giggles, is not. If you're going to make a sequel make a sequel, if you're going to make a new game give it a different name.
It is still the same game, as long as the specifications that make Heroes a Heroes game are staying. The number of resources or introducing city converting does not reach that threshold, it's just adding modern features and to avoid comments like "it's like playing the same game over and over again just with better graphics". Developers are well aware of the fact that every game has a certain amount of fans who are rigid against any change whatsoever and they want a game last for eternity in the same state they got won over by it, but most developers are more interested in gaining new fans and keeping the game relevant.
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 11:30 AM |
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Quote: Pavel’s sister Sveltana, who had left her homeland to become a prominent Necromancer in the Seven Cities, was called back to act as regent to Slava and educate him in the ways of the Griffin.
That sentence kinda pushes towards Academy not being in H6 vanilla.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 12:16 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 12:17, 17 Sep 2010.
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Quote: It is still the same game, as long as the specifications that make Heroes a Heroes game are staying. The number of resources or introducing city converting does not reach that threshold, it's just adding modern features and to avoid comments like "it's like playing the same game over and over again just with better graphics".
Actually, the number of resources is very important, you change that and you change the whole pace and play-style of the game.
Quote: Developers are well aware of the fact that every game has a certain amount of fans who are rigid against any change whatsoever and they want a game last for eternity in the same state they got won over by it, but most developers are more interested in gaining new fans and keeping the game relevant.
There are a rather larger number of fans who are more progressive, bit still feel there needs to be limits on what gets changed. I'm one of the latter type, as evidenced by my not complaining about the new tier system, most of the effects of the zone-of-control, town conversions, and a bunch of the more minor changes, but I simply cannot bring myself to like the reduction in the number of resources, the stupid monopolistic way they've tied mines to towns, and the fact that they've probably simplified the town-build system a lot, just to add in some RPG elements.
There are also things they haven't changed, which IMO they really ought to have done, like making the battlefields bigger (I know they said they've done it, but right now I don't see any evidence), and scaling the map to look more like in did in 1-4 (ie, the hero should represent the army, not be the army).
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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 12:52 PM |
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Edited by Danny at 12:54, 17 Sep 2010.
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Quote: There are a rather larger number of fans who are more progressive, bit still feel there needs to be limits on what gets changed. I'm one of the latter type, as evidenced by my not complaining about the new tier system, most of the effects of the zone-of-control, town conversions, and a bunch of the more minor changes, but I simply cannot bring myself to like the reduction in the number of resources, the stupid monopolistic way they've tied mines to towns, and the fact that they've probably simplified the town-build system a lot, just to add in some RPG elements.
You've been going in circles about this subject. You do admit there should be change, but you want to put a limit on that. The limit is your own subjective opinion, so it just doesn't add up to say "I think the game remains Heroes if they change the tier system, but it definitely won't be a proper Heroes sequel if they reduce the resources and add a few more RPG elements". This view might be shared by some, but not shared by a lot others, so what can the developers do?
They can't listen to EVERYONE and include everything that's being suggested. If they left a lot of those stuff unchanged, then Black Hole would get criticism like "it's like Heroes 5 with better art direction, they couldn't come up with something new" and the people who didn't care about H5 won't check out H6 when they hear comments like that.
I know a forum is for expressing ourselves, but nothing will change if you keep on posting about how H6 is no longer a sequel or how they ruined the story for making Necropolis a faction. Especially because you couldn't even play with the game yet and you didn't experience how the changes REALLY affect Heroes. Nothing that has been revealed so far had met an unanimous disapproval so I doubt they are going to change these things less than half a year before the release date.
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lucky_dwarf
Promising
Supreme Hero
Visiting
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posted September 17, 2010 02:16 PM |
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I think the inferno faction has the best story at the moment.
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So much has changed in my absence.
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watcher83
Supreme Hero
Child of Malassa
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posted September 17, 2010 04:24 PM |
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I don't see a human or half human leading the following:naga, dark elves, dwarves, orcs.
So it can be : academy, sylvan, Ylath faction or dragon knights.
edit - If a human and a naga mate will the child have legs or not?
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted September 17, 2010 06:15 PM |
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Technically, it's a prequel.
Just sayin'.
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Pahomije
Hired Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 08:47 PM |
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The way I see it, there are 2 possible campaign scenarios. Either the Archangel general's ancient enemy are the Faceless and we'll see events (probably in an expansion) involving the Elven civil war and creation of the Dark Elves, with the possibility of hopefully the Faceless being tier 7 creatures (which might leave out black dragons).
Another option that came to my mind is that the Archangel general's ancient enemies are the 6 Demon Overlords, which might lead to him becoming the Sovereign.
In both cases, the 2 missing vanilla factions are anybody's guess. I'm still hoping for the other sister being a wizard, which would lead to both brother vs brother and sister vs sister confrontations. The final brother could be long lost at sea/jungle, saved by the Naga and raised as one of their own. Either that or a follower or Sylath.
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Lokheit
Known Hero
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posted September 17, 2010 11:49 PM |
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Given the fact that the elven war start after the sheogh thing, I'm nearly sure that both elven races will be included at the same time in an expansion, making them the protagonists of this one after the other 5 have their glory on the main game.
Probably the remaining 2 are academy (they can transport their cities, who knows in wich terrain they were 400 years before HOMMV?)and probably naga or something like that as they announced something new.
About the sphynx, they are considered on mythology as being really powerfull creatures. In other games like Magic TG they usually are creatures of the same power level than angels and dragons, and they are creatures related to pyramids (so, related to mummies and the undead concept) so I think they are a perfect election for a level 7 creature. Indeed you have to keep in mind that now we have 3 different tiers with many creatures on each of them, so I can see them being champion, like the angels, and also including the "spider-avatar" and the "fire-avatar" beings of the concept art in this category, with the avatars being a bit stronger and the angels and sphynxes being on the same "sub-tier" to give it a name.
Also one question, on the second page Elvin mentioned an article listing the complete necropolis lineup, but I can't find it, please somebody post it here
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted September 18, 2010 12:32 AM |
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Quote: If you're going to make a sequel make a sequel, if you're going to make a new game give it a different name.
HoMM1
HoMM2
HoMM3
HoMM4
HoMM5
MnM:H
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 18, 2010 01:35 AM |
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will there be a H4 like system where you can only buy 2 out of 3 core buildings and 2 out of 3 elite buildings for example?
the loss of the initiative system may not be the best idea. will it at least be like in H4? that way we can at least avoid super slow units, it's not because they play late that they can't move far.
4 kind of resources isn't necessarily bad, there will be less luck needed. in another hand, market places may become near useless.
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LordGodric
Known Hero
The Griffin Rider
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posted September 18, 2010 03:39 AM |
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Quote:
*There will be 5 factions*
- Announced factions are Haven, Inferno and Necropolis.
- The 4th faction will be announced in November. It's a known faction from previous Heroes.
- The 5th faction will be an original faction. It will be announced in January only.
If you think about play styles, as many people said, you can have
Heaven-defensive
Inferno-offensive
Necro-magic oriented
Sylvan-ranged
but... thinking about opposition:
-Heaven opposes Inferno
Elves opposes Dark-elves (since its setted at the schism between wood/dark elves) and if the 5th faction will be new, it isnt, probably a dark elven faction...
so, the most logical is Academy, to oppose Necropolis
in this case, elves and dark elves would be in an expansion...
i really dislike this; sylvan is my favorite faction; on the other hand, it would be hard for elves to menage to fight the dark elves AND be involved with foreign relatioships matters
i just cant see the nagas following a human... and a half-naga woulb be really weird.
so, i think the 5th faction could really be the underground faction... and have something with the faceless, but not an entirely faceless faction - if there are dark elves in this faction, maybe the 4th faction could be the elven.
Quote:
*New tier system
- Units are no longer divided in successive levels of strength, they fall under three categories: Core, elite and champion.
the best change made so far.
Quote:
*Creature Siege Damage
- Creature stacks can now damage the fortifications but are less efficient than catapults.
another good change.
Quote:
*There will be 4 resources: Gold, Wood, Ore and one rare resource
- The rare resource is named "crystallized dragon blood".
will the market still exist?
I dont think the redution of recources kinds is a good thing...
and why "crystallized dragon blood"? couldnt it be just the old and good "crystal"?
Quote:
*No secondary / alternative upgrades
Yahoo! Since most of the alternative upgrades are just ofensive/defensive and color-changing...
Quote: - They may appear in subsequent additions, however.
Quote:
*The different tilesets
Jungle, Plains (Summer AND Autumn), Lava, Wasteland (Necropolis), Underground.
Its clear to me:
Lava - necropolis,
undergournd - heaven
and jungle - inferno!
Are you guys really sure the Wastelands are the terrain of necro?
in some sceenshots i saw that necro heroin walking in the jungle...
if the 4th faction is academy, it could be:
Lava - Inferno
Summer Plain - Heaven
Wasteland (a rocky plain)- academy - as someone alredy said somewhere, like H2
Jungle - Necropolis
underground/autumn plai - 5th faction
if the 4th is sylvan:
Plain - heaven
Wasteland - necro
Lava - Inferno
Jungle/Autumn plain - Sylvan
Quote:
*Campaign structure
5 campaigns of 4 maps, 1 per faction, playable in any order, with an optional tutorial map and a mandatory prologue map.
well, i liked best the system of H3or H5, rather than h4 one;
I read somewhere that would be an 6th campaign, is taht true?
Quote:
*Presence of critters on the adventure map
- Turtles, dolphins, birds, etc.
very good one!
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chimthegrim
Adventuring Hero
That guy ...
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posted September 18, 2010 06:27 AM |
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Man i am so excited for this game. The art and graphics are way better than Heroes V. I was so disappointed that heroes V wasn't even really playable. It never ran smooth and any friends' computer.
This game just looks so sweet.
5 factions is a little low though.
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