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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 22, 2013 12:32 AM |
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lol I can't kill anything. Master of mysticism (enchanters) kill me too, they go melee with 15 speed, my air shield is nuts. Rion never got offered navigation, it takes him 2 weeks to flag the 7-8 cb in the river.
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Era II mods and utilities
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 12:35 AM |
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So.. rangers get Ouch speed growth only? Cause if they are too fast and decide to go melee it will screw up lots of strategies (for example using Clones to block no longer work).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 22, 2013 12:42 AM |
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Maybe. Month 4, enchanters have 39-40 damage, my devils 50-60, I have 200 of them, there are 2500 enchanters going melee if block, so you need to keep clones away, then air shield.
Can't pass Ajit, Save. Looks like I am too late, he got on 4.1.1 + 50% boost. But on 3.4.1 I could pass if he did not have hatred, very unlucky this time. 
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 01:11 AM |
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Lol dragons move first = GG.
I guess MoW will need time to develop its heroes' levels and wait for all the Grails to come and such to become powerful and at that point it's too late compared to MoS.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 22, 2013 01:19 AM |
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The grails don't come if you don't expand. Tazar is triggered by Zubin's death, and so on.
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 03:18 AM |
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Heh I know, sorry for not using the proper words. What I mean is it will take lots of time for the later grails to come, same for training Heroes to get bonus (late games it take only a few days to train a hero). The difference in bonus between early game and late game MoW is enormous, compared to MoS who gets almost all bonuses are available instantly (aside from the tiles purchasing).
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 07:21 AM |
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Thinking of it the growth rate of AI will be Insane.
Reached Ajit and was lucky enough to not have Hatred against AD's, Even so he wiped me several times in 2 rounds, through shield. Though in 1 try he waited with his Darkness Dragons, moved devils in castle and got morale which I used to Defend. I then thinned Darkens (5-6 kills / hit... and defended in the round when I got attacked again by the non retaliation stack.
An ultra lucky try allowed me to go further. Just that I suspect I will hit a brick wall pretty soon.
Will continue in the afternoon.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 22, 2013 12:00 PM |
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If it show to be impossible for every faction, Hell difficulty could get other settings, like being able to do everything each faction did (shrines, generate money, move faster, cast twice, no cap in creatures damage/HP and so on) while AI bonus remains very strong.
The annoying thing is that tests take so long, is not like you can see if balance realist in a few hours. On the other side, if Hell has all abilities, nobody would ever want to play lower and will complain map is impossible. But I think the 50% growth from month 4 is much exaggerated, saw the outcome myself. Or maybe keep 50% for HP and defense and calculate the damage growth on a smaller scale, dragons with 150 damage month 4 don't leave any chance.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 22, 2013 12:51 PM |
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I would agree with the damage increased by lesser level than HP and Att/Def.
Anyway you can try Hell mode with other than MoW faction first.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 01:13 PM |
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I think HELL is now like one of those tower defense games where you get more and more waves of enemies until you get overrun . Survive mod. 
how much did you manage to clear in HELL? Didn't yet reach month 4 in my current game but I expect to come here and cry like a newborn pretty soon 
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 22, 2013 01:16 PM |
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If you don't want to suffer,try Master of Devils in Hell.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 01:21 PM |
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Edited by OvidiuG at 13:23, 22 Apr 2013.
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I actually don't see MoD being able to clear HELL. It took me 5 months and 2 weeks to reach Wystan when I played in standard difficulty and the overall mithril income was not shinning.
I think that MoS could do a HELL mod. if fast enough to unlock water bonus very fast.
the way I see it. discover map very vast, get the mithril farming frenzy mode on, beat AI in month 6 the most. Hell mode is all about how fast you can get mithril.
Still very tight, maybe impossible.
Will see...
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 22, 2013 01:43 PM |
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Maybe increase HP by 25% until month 6, from then +50%.
Increase damage/defense/attack by 15% every month, starting with 2nd.
+1 speed until 6th, +2 from there.
The only thing which prohibits the game being completed in Hell is the ridiculous damage they get so early (hit once, you're dead). Other that, battles could be longer, more mana needed etc.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 22, 2013 01:52 PM |
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@Sal,instead of going to rest after the hard work on the map,new tests coming with new ideas,keeping you busy.
Thank you for all the new features,including difficulty levels!
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 01:54 PM |
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Can't say much since I'm having fun with MoW Ouch mode. Though the Ultimate Faction of Doom idea sounds fun as hell (maybe a Fun only mode?). Hell Baron's Stone + Fear + Blind + Double cast + resources per day + Grails + Runner packs + Shrines + Spoils (+30% due to MoS bonus) from Arena and even more, just total annihilation lol. Also shrines + MoW is one hell of a disaster combo.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 22, 2013 01:56 PM |
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Not really, until Ouch mode the game is ready and packed, will not change anything. Now I would like to have a very challenging hell but still doable if play very well. Which is not, from what I saw. So from now is only about comparing values from ouch and see how far they can be boosted without becoming a wall.
Abandoned the idea of doom faction, will make all races uninteresting to have all bonuses in one. Sort of killing the map after one play.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 22, 2013 02:06 PM |
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Here is the discussion about armorer and offence and damage calculated accordingly.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 22, 2013 02:09 PM |
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Totally useless, because all those calculations were made keeping in mind normal values from game. Once you go past hundreds of damage/attack/defense, the game responds very differently. I already read those threads and got no answer about hidden caps.
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OvidiuG
Known Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 02:11 PM |
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Edited by OvidiuG at 14:13, 22 Apr 2013.
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As I said I will try my MoS Hell game later on today, once I am getting home.
maybe implement a new feature for Hell : if unlucky hatred in a week, like ajit having dragons hating AD's buy "God's favor" or "Indulgence" where you could re-roll AI's hate script. 1 week of wait just cos you got unlucky with rolls can be very important for a Hell game. make it buy-able for 50k or Resources or Mithril (God' forbid )
Also minor change. If I want to flag a creature dwelling like gorgon's lair - 40 k gold -> into pit lords. Those pits are not bad but hardly important in any game since their role is demons nursery. So I fight the creatures guarding the dwelling and if I have the gold I get automatically charged, but I just want to get the fight for special levelup counter , and not convert the dwelling, possible?
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alisapa1211
Famous Hero
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posted April 22, 2013 02:14 PM |
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Quote:
Here is the discussion about armorer and offence and damage calculated accordingly.
Quote:
(attack skill)-(defense skill) * 5% = extra damage
Here is the first fact, which was wrong mentioned in earlier posts. The maximum of extra damage is 300% and not 400%.
=> Cap is 60 Atk difference (300% : 5%)
Quote:
(defence skill)-(attack skill) * 2 % = damage reduction
IIRC max reduction is 70% without Armorer, so 35 Def difference is full effect.
This kinda shows that we should always focus on getting Defense and Attack later, also explains pretty well Damage > Attack for OvidiuG, atk has cap while dmg doesn't. And yes I'm sure I have also tested this in this map as well and it's true.
Probably will do a test to see if Reduce is flat or % soon.
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